RE: Responses to some more questions on Visi shtadvaita

[Guest guest]

Sri Mani's reponse to Sri Hebbar is thus:

 

" > Where does it say Brahman=Ishvara+jIva+jaDa? Brahman is God, not

> souls & Matter included!

 

bhoktA bhogyam preritAram ca matvA sarvam proktam

trividham brahma etat

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Having comprehended the experiencer of pleasures and pains,

the objects of his experience, and the directing Supreme,

the whole of the threefold Brahman is described by me.

 

-- Svetasvatara Upanishad 1.25

 

Here the experiencer (bhoktA) is the jIva, as he experiences

pain and pleasure due to karma. The objects of the experience

(bhogya) is the insentient matter (prakRti), connection with

which causes pleasure and pain. The directing Supreme (preritR)

is the Lord.

 

It is important to understand that Brahman is not Isvara + Jiva + Jada

in a mathematical summation. I am pretty sure Sri Balaji understands

this, but the Visishtadvaita idea is being misstated. Brahman is

Isvara, who has the jIva and prakRti (jada) as attributes, and are

therefore comprehended within Isvara's being. This is the body-soul

relationship that is so fundamental to Ramanuja's interpretational

approach. In a manner similar to how each of us has a body, which

we use to express ourselves, Isvara has jIva and prakRti as its

body, in the sense that the jIva and prakRti are completely supported,

controlled, and pervaded by Isvara. Since they are comprehended

in this body-soul analogy, they are One, just as when we conventionally

point to someone, we see them as one, with the body connected to

the soul. Yet, they are internally distinguishable, with Isvara being

the foundation. This is known as Visishtaikya -- unity of the

attributed Isvara.

 

Because the jIva and prakRti are the body of Brahman, they are

sometimes spoken of as Brahman itself, just as when we say

" I am sick " , we mean " My body is dark " , and not " My jIva is

dark " . Yet, the adjective " sick " is still used to describe " I " .

Similarly, because Brahman is the Innermost Self, the jIva

and prakRti, being adjectives or attributes of Brahman, are

also sometimes described as Brahman. This terminology is also

adopted in the Gita. "

 

 

Question or a comment:

 

As it was said before, jIva while in bondage with prakruthi, experiences pain

and pleasure. If jIva is an attribute of Brahman (I,.e Narayana) then it

implies that the Lord also has the same. The Lord has only infinite kalyAna

gunAs and is free from any doshA. Also the prkruthi is achethana (jada) while

the Lord is chethana. All the qualities contained in jIva and jada should also

be contained in Lord. Hence how can we call jIva and jada as attributes of

Brahman? There is no problem in comprehending that the jIva and prakRti are

completely supported, controlled, and pervaded by Isvara as antharyAmi, but the

Lord does not necessarily shares all of their attributes. He gives them their

unique attributes, but He himself does not share the doshAs in them.

 

Hare' Srinivasa

 

GV Srinivasan