Guest guest Posted January 20, 2000 Report Share Posted January 20, 2000 Respected Sir. In this digest though there are 12 messages in the digest only seven are sent as shown under . Can you kindly send the left over messages or the whole digest No.263. Regards. Dr.B.Basker. wrote: > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > <a href= " http://clickme./ad/gator4 " >Click Here</a> > > ------ > > nAham kartA hariH kartA tatpUjA karmachaakhilam.h| > taThaapi matkR^itaa pUja tatprasaadhEna naanyaThaa| > tadbhakti tadphalam.h mahyam.h tatprasaadaat.h punaH punaH | > karmanyaasO harAvevam.h vishNOsthR^iptikaraH sadhA || > > " I am not the doer, shri Hari is the doer, all the actions that I do are His worship. Even then, the worship I do is through His grace and not otherwise. That devotion and the fruits of the actions that come to me are due to His recurring grace " > If one always practices to do actions with a dedicated spirit to Hari, in this way, it pleases Vishnu. > --- Quoted by Sri madhvAchArya in GitA tAtparya > > ------ > > There are 12 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Re: Ayyappa is true? > napsrao <napsrao > 2. RE: Delete my name from VMS list/Second Request > KANEKAL > 3. Vishwesha Theertha Swamiji takes over Sarvajna Peeth > " Girish M. Aswathanarayana " <girish > 4. Re: BE A BEE IN RELIGIONS > AsifJah > 5. The Ayyappan affair > Balaji Hebbar <bhebbar > 6. Re: The Ayyappan affair > AsifJah > 7. Fwd: Re: Delete my name from VMS list/Third and Final Request > Gopal Potti <gpotti > 8. Fwd: Re: Delete my name from VMS list/Third and Final Request > Gopal Potti <gpotti > 9. Fwd: failure notice > RAMACHANDRA RAO <bkrrao > 10. Fwd: Ayyappa and your quitting > RAMACHANDRA RAO <bkrrao > 11. Re: Lunar eclipse > " Venk Mutalik " <vmutalik > 12. rAyarA gadyAs > " Venk Mutalik " <vmutalik > > _____________________________ > _____________________________ > > Message: 1 > Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:00:31 +0530 > napsrao <napsrao > Re: Ayyappa is true? > > Friends, > The proposition that all Deities should be worshipped with their > Tharathamya with respect to the Supreme Being constantly kept in > mind and as His Parivara is undisputed by any Madhva. The basic > question is who are those Dieties ? If we go by the Vedas and > Puranas, we have a list, which is broadly covered by such gems > as Tharathamya Sthothra, Harikathamruthasara etc. If we choose > to include others, who are not specifically mentioned there - > where do we stop ?. How about the village deities, the Babas and > many others ? How can we distinguish between those who are > Sathvikas belonging to the different classes like gods, > Gandharvas etc and others. If we include the Shiva ganas, it is > to be remembered that many of them are of Thamasa nature also > and hence not worthy of being worshipped by us. > Thus, before one can seriously accept Ayyappa as one of the > Deities to be worshipped, it is necessary to find out > authoritative Pramanas to define his swaroopa and his > Tharathamya with respect to other Sathvika deities. But, it deos > seem that the Purana story which is quoted, seems to be of > recent origin as it refers to historical personalities a few > centuries back. But, as a Madhva, I am prepared to be educated > if proper pramanas are produced about Ayyappa also. Till such > time, I have to suspend jusgement on this issue. > NAPSRao > > _____________________________ > _____________________________ > > Message: 2 > Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:51:19 -0500 > KANEKAL > RE: Delete my name from VMS list/Second Request > > Fellow Madhvas, > Much has been said about Ayyappa worship and Mr Potti for one > feels that he has been wronged. Obviously his hurt has been deep enough to > compare the " extremists " on this list to southern baptists. > > IN this instance I finf myself in sympathy with Mr. Potti. I have to agree > that intolerance has been displayed as alleged by him. There are two aspects > to spiritual feeling - intellectual and philosophical and one of faith, awe > reverence and worship. It would be well if one could bring these two aspects > into harmony but more often that is not the case. The hindu tradition it is > claimed is all accepting and tolerant of multifarious religious practices. > If one accepts that - one cannot fault Mr. Potti. If one doesnt - then one is > logically forced to accept his statement about s.baptist and ourselves. There > have been postings in the past by mr. Nataraj ( with whom I find myself > sometimes in agreement) regarding Vivekanda and others. I do find it extremely > disturbing that Vivekanda and other were regarded with what was tantamount to > hatred. I do not to such positions. > > As Puttige Swami has asserted " be a bee ... " and the dalai lama has explained > the existence of different religions as due to cultural and other differences > in analogy with languages - such indeed is the only rational response. Else > while professing love for others one is indulging in hatred. Historically it > is undeniable that people have been persecuted on the basis of religion. > > Christ supposedly said 'let him who is without sin be the first one to cast > the stone' - seems pretty decent to me (although his disciples havs certainly > not always adhered to that). > > If Mr. Potti wishes to worship Ayyappa - good for him. I have listened myself > to Gregorian chant and find that spriritual. Although I do not share > some of his outlook I would like to ask him to continue to be on the list and > to let him know that not all on this list find Ayyappa worship in any way > makes him less of a Madhva. > > regards, > Shri > > >Gopal Potti <gpotti wrote : > >Namaskara, > >.... About 90 % of my Puja is for Lord Sri Krishna and 10 % > >for all other deities and at the end " sarvam Sri Krishnarpamanamastu " . I do > >so many other religious things on top of this. As a result, I have no worries > >and my family is very happy and we thank " Guruvayoorappan, Udupi Sri > >Krihna, Sri Banne Krishna, Sri Venkateshwara and Sri Padmanabha > >Swami(Anandashayana)and so on " everyday. > > > >From above one can see that I practice Madhva philosophy and not a > >theoretician. > >If maddhva extremists think that Lord Sri Krishna is going to punish Gopal > >for worshipping Lord Ayyappa, they are in fool's paradise. Madhva Philosophy > >came into existance only during 1238-1317 A.D, do these people believe that > >nobody got mukthi and went to heaven prior to Madhva's time. This is just like > >Southern Baptists preaching getting to heaven is only through Jesus Christ > >as if no one had gone to heaven prior to that. > > > >So I do not want anyone telling me what I shoud do with repect to worship. > >I do not care whether I am called a madhva or a nonmadhva. I never requested > >in the first place to put my name in the VMS list anyway. One thing I know > >that I am trying to become a Krishnabakta. After all, Sri Kanaka Dasa was > >not a madhva and Udupi SriKrishna recognised his devotion to Lord. > > > >As indicated earlier, I am following Sri Puthige Swamiji's message: > > > > " BE A BEE IN RELIGIONS " > > > >and I conclude my last emailto VMS by quoting a message (which I believe) > >of Sri Narayana Guru for lower caste people in Kerala: > > > > " Oru Jathi Oru Matham Oru Daivam Manushane; Matham Ethayalum, Manushan > > nannayal mathi " (this is not sankrit but in malayalam language). The > >english translation is " One Caste One Religion one GOD for human beings; > >irrespective of religion, human beings should be good people " > > > >Thanking Vasu for in anticipation of removal of my name from the > >VMS list and may " GOD " bless you all for your good deeds. > > > >Gopal Krishna Potti > > > > > >Another topic for schalors' discussion: If Pralaya had taken thousands of years > >back and the whole world was under water, Lord Narayana being the supreme > >deity, must have created every thing after that. Is it possible that Sri > >Lord Narayana must have created GODS of other religions ?!!! so that the > >whole complex world can be managed more effectively. Crazy thinking on > >my part !!! > > ====================================================================== > Shri Kanekal phone: (301)286-6517 > Code 696 FAX : (301)286-1648 > Goddard Space Flight Center > Greenbelt Road > Greenbelt, MD 20771 > ====================================================================== > > _____________________________ > _____________________________ > > Message: 3 > Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:13:16 -0600 > " Girish M. Aswathanarayana " <girish > Vishwesha Theertha Swamiji takes over Sarvajna Peeth > > In Deccan Herald: > > http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/jan19/stud.htm > > _____________________________ > _____________________________ > > Message: 4 > Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:28:36 EST > AsifJah > Re: BE A BEE IN RELIGIONS > > Krishna Bhaktas: > > The purported speech of Swamiji in Jordan seems to be quoted out of context. To understand it better, one needs to know that the speech was delivered to a group of mainly non-Hindus. It was just a politically correct speech. > > It is not appropriate to label everyone who offers the theoretically correct Maadhva explanation as a " Maadhva extremist " . This is a great disservice to the Maadhva community. > > Comparing Maadhva theoreticians to Southern Baptists is entirely unacceptable. After all, to be a Maadhva theoretician takes not only long years of learning but also the grace of Hari Vayu. > > Regards, > Arvind Acharya > > _____________________________ > _____________________________ > > Message: 5 > Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:35:55 -0400 > Balaji Hebbar <bhebbar > The Ayyappan affair > > Dear Friends: > > On the Ayyappan issue, with all due respect to ideology, one > needs to consider the historical and cultural factors as well. > The worship of bhUtas and demi-gods is and has been an > integral part of the religion of the MalabAr peoples. From > Ratnagiri in MahArAShTra to Trivandrum in Kerala, it is a > certain type of culture that is unique to the MalabAr coastal > region. The coastal MarAthi, KonkaNI, coastal KannaDa, TuLu and > MalayALam are merely linguistic variations of a fairly uniform > coastal culture. The ParashurAma legend and pride of descent > from the sage is again common to all these peoples. The > architecture, the ritual purity and the tantric style of > worship in these temples is another common feature and so on. > His Most Venerable Holiness VAdirAja TIrtharu who himself was > the " second greatest " son of the soil that we MAdhvas accept > as one of our gurus was himself faced with this " ideology " > vs. " local tradition " dilemma during his lifetime. As can be > gleamed from his bio, i.e. the VAdirAjaguruvaracaritAmRta, he > refused to enter the village of KuDuma when he came to know > that the locals offer worship to bhUtarAja aNNappa. After the > local chieftain, one VarmaNNa HeggaDe (who happened to be a > Jain and whose ideology was equally opposed to bhUta worship) > who pleaded repeatedly with our revered guru; the pontiff > eventually agreed to come only after the establishment of a > Shiva's (bhUtagaNAdhipati) shrine there. (This clearly fits in > with HH Puttige SvamIjI's advice to ShrI Gopal Potti to > worship Shiva before Ayyappan). This deity, of course, is the > famous Man~junAtheshvara and the village of KuDuma was renamed > " DharmasthaLa " . Ever since that time, despite the fact that > both Jain and MAdhva ideologies are opposed to bhUta worship, > IN DUE DEFERENCE TO THE LOCAL CULTURE, both the HeggaDes as > well as the MAdhva priests in charge of the Man~junAtha shrine > offer " worship " to bhUtarAja aNNappa. > A more modern incident (one to which I was an eyewitness in > 1979 when studying with HH AdamAr sVAmIjI) I saw the pontiff > personally accept " prasAda " of flowers and kunkuma from a > " possessed " person something quite common in the " DakkebalI " > (South Kanara jAtre and bailanATaka). Again, HH Vibudhesha > TIrtha SvAmIjI explained to me that it was a deference to > local custom. > Therefore, if one divorces situations from their natural > cultural context, the whole scenario is bound to look odd > especially given ShrimadAcArya's philosophy. Many a times Hon'ble > Bannanje himself has quite candidly told me that the hinterland > Deccan MAdhva culture of the deshathas is quite different from > the coastal MalabAr MAdhva culture of the TuLus and the > KonkaNIs. Let us not forget this important aspect. May > understanding and moderation prevail at least on this issue. > > regards, > Hari-vAyu smaraNa > B.N.Hebbar > > _____________________________ > _____________________________ > > Message: 6 > Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:40:29 EST > AsifJah > Re: The Ayyappan affair > > In a message Balaji Hebbar <bhebbar writes: > > > Many a times Hon'ble > > Bannanje himself has quite candidly told me > that the hinterland > > Deccan MAdhva culture of the > > deshathas is quite > > different from > > the coastal MalabAr MAdhva culture of the TuLus > and the > > Prof. Hebbar: > > As a " hinterland Deccan Madhva " , I am very interested in knowing how we are " quite different from the coastal Madhva culture " . Can you specify some examples? > > Regards, > Arvind Acharya > > _____________________________ > _____________________________ > > Message: 7 > Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:20:53 -0500 > Gopal Potti <gpotti > Fwd: Re: Delete my name from VMS list/Third and Final Request > > >Sheshagiri Rao <rshesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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