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Respected Sir.

In this digest though there are 12 messages in the digest only seven are sent as

shown under . Can you kindly send the left over messages or the whole digest

No.263.

Regards.

Dr.B.Basker.

 

wrote:

 

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> nAham kartA hariH kartA tatpUjA karmachaakhilam.h|

> taThaapi matkR^itaa pUja tatprasaadhEna naanyaThaa|

> tadbhakti tadphalam.h mahyam.h tatprasaadaat.h punaH punaH |

> karmanyaasO harAvevam.h vishNOsthR^iptikaraH sadhA ||

>

> " I am not the doer, shri Hari is the doer, all the actions that I do are His

worship. Even then, the worship I do is through His grace and not otherwise.

That devotion and the fruits of the actions that come to me are due to His

recurring grace "

> If one always practices to do actions with a dedicated spirit to Hari, in this

way, it pleases Vishnu.

> --- Quoted by Sri madhvAchArya in GitA tAtparya

>

> ------

>

> There are 12 messages in this issue.

>

> Topics in today's digest:

>

> 1. Re: Ayyappa is true?

> napsrao <napsrao

> 2. RE: Delete my name from VMS list/Second Request

> KANEKAL

> 3. Vishwesha Theertha Swamiji takes over Sarvajna Peeth

> " Girish M. Aswathanarayana " <girish

> 4. Re: BE A BEE IN RELIGIONS

> AsifJah

> 5. The Ayyappan affair

> Balaji Hebbar <bhebbar

> 6. Re: The Ayyappan affair

> AsifJah

> 7. Fwd: Re: Delete my name from VMS list/Third and Final Request

> Gopal Potti <gpotti

> 8. Fwd: Re: Delete my name from VMS list/Third and Final Request

> Gopal Potti <gpotti

> 9. Fwd: failure notice

> RAMACHANDRA RAO <bkrrao

> 10. Fwd: Ayyappa and your quitting

> RAMACHANDRA RAO <bkrrao

> 11. Re: Lunar eclipse

> " Venk Mutalik " <vmutalik

> 12. rAyarA gadyAs

> " Venk Mutalik " <vmutalik

>

>

_____________________________

>

_____________________________

>

> Message: 1

> Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:00:31 +0530

> napsrao <napsrao

> Re: Ayyappa is true?

>

> Friends,

> The proposition that all Deities should be worshipped with their

> Tharathamya with respect to the Supreme Being constantly kept in

> mind and as His Parivara is undisputed by any Madhva. The basic

> question is who are those Dieties ? If we go by the Vedas and

> Puranas, we have a list, which is broadly covered by such gems

> as Tharathamya Sthothra, Harikathamruthasara etc. If we choose

> to include others, who are not specifically mentioned there -

> where do we stop ?. How about the village deities, the Babas and

> many others ? How can we distinguish between those who are

> Sathvikas belonging to the different classes like gods,

> Gandharvas etc and others. If we include the Shiva ganas, it is

> to be remembered that many of them are of Thamasa nature also

> and hence not worthy of being worshipped by us.

> Thus, before one can seriously accept Ayyappa as one of the

> Deities to be worshipped, it is necessary to find out

> authoritative Pramanas to define his swaroopa and his

> Tharathamya with respect to other Sathvika deities. But, it deos

> seem that the Purana story which is quoted, seems to be of

> recent origin as it refers to historical personalities a few

> centuries back. But, as a Madhva, I am prepared to be educated

> if proper pramanas are produced about Ayyappa also. Till such

> time, I have to suspend jusgement on this issue.

> NAPSRao

>

>

_____________________________

>

_____________________________

>

> Message: 2

> Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:51:19 -0500

> KANEKAL

> RE: Delete my name from VMS list/Second Request

>

> Fellow Madhvas,

> Much has been said about Ayyappa worship and Mr Potti for one

> feels that he has been wronged. Obviously his hurt has been deep enough to

> compare the " extremists " on this list to southern baptists.

>

> IN this instance I finf myself in sympathy with Mr. Potti. I have to agree

> that intolerance has been displayed as alleged by him. There are two aspects

> to spiritual feeling - intellectual and philosophical and one of faith, awe

> reverence and worship. It would be well if one could bring these two aspects

> into harmony but more often that is not the case. The hindu tradition it is

> claimed is all accepting and tolerant of multifarious religious practices.

> If one accepts that - one cannot fault Mr. Potti. If one doesnt - then one is

> logically forced to accept his statement about s.baptist and ourselves. There

> have been postings in the past by mr. Nataraj ( with whom I find myself

> sometimes in agreement) regarding Vivekanda and others. I do find it

extremely

> disturbing that Vivekanda and other were regarded with what was tantamount to

> hatred. I do not to such positions.

>

> As Puttige Swami has asserted " be a bee ... " and the dalai lama has explained

> the existence of different religions as due to cultural and other differences

> in analogy with languages - such indeed is the only rational response. Else

> while professing love for others one is indulging in hatred. Historically it

> is undeniable that people have been persecuted on the basis of religion.

>

> Christ supposedly said 'let him who is without sin be the first one to cast

> the stone' - seems pretty decent to me (although his disciples havs certainly

> not always adhered to that).

>

> If Mr. Potti wishes to worship Ayyappa - good for him. I have listened myself

> to Gregorian chant and find that spriritual. Although I do not share

> some of his outlook I would like to ask him to continue to be on the list and

> to let him know that not all on this list find Ayyappa worship in any way

> makes him less of a Madhva.

>

> regards,

> Shri

>

> >Gopal Potti <gpotti wrote :

> >Namaskara,

> >.... About 90 % of my Puja is for Lord Sri Krishna and 10 %

> >for all other deities and at the end " sarvam Sri Krishnarpamanamastu " . I do

> >so many other religious things on top of this. As a result, I have no worries

> >and my family is very happy and we thank " Guruvayoorappan, Udupi Sri

> >Krihna, Sri Banne Krishna, Sri Venkateshwara and Sri Padmanabha

> >Swami(Anandashayana)and so on " everyday.

> >

> >From above one can see that I practice Madhva philosophy and not a

> >theoretician.

> >If maddhva extremists think that Lord Sri Krishna is going to punish Gopal

> >for worshipping Lord Ayyappa, they are in fool's paradise. Madhva Philosophy

> >came into existance only during 1238-1317 A.D, do these people believe that

> >nobody got mukthi and went to heaven prior to Madhva's time. This is just

like

> >Southern Baptists preaching getting to heaven is only through Jesus Christ

> >as if no one had gone to heaven prior to that.

> >

> >So I do not want anyone telling me what I shoud do with repect to worship.

> >I do not care whether I am called a madhva or a nonmadhva. I never requested

> >in the first place to put my name in the VMS list anyway. One thing I know

> >that I am trying to become a Krishnabakta. After all, Sri Kanaka Dasa was

> >not a madhva and Udupi SriKrishna recognised his devotion to Lord.

> >

> >As indicated earlier, I am following Sri Puthige Swamiji's message:

> >

> > " BE A BEE IN RELIGIONS "

> >

> >and I conclude my last emailto VMS by quoting a message (which I believe)

> >of Sri Narayana Guru for lower caste people in Kerala:

> >

> > " Oru Jathi Oru Matham Oru Daivam Manushane; Matham Ethayalum, Manushan

> > nannayal mathi " (this is not sankrit but in malayalam language). The

> >english translation is " One Caste One Religion one GOD for human beings;

> >irrespective of religion, human beings should be good people "

> >

> >Thanking Vasu for in anticipation of removal of my name from the

> >VMS list and may " GOD " bless you all for your good deeds.

> >

> >Gopal Krishna Potti

> >

> >

> >Another topic for schalors' discussion: If Pralaya had taken thousands of

years

> >back and the whole world was under water, Lord Narayana being the supreme

> >deity, must have created every thing after that. Is it possible that Sri

> >Lord Narayana must have created GODS of other religions ?!!! so that the

> >whole complex world can be managed more effectively. Crazy thinking on

> >my part !!!

>

> ======================================================================

> Shri Kanekal phone: (301)286-6517

> Code 696 FAX : (301)286-1648

> Goddard Space Flight Center

> Greenbelt Road

> Greenbelt, MD 20771

> ======================================================================

>

>

_____________________________

>

_____________________________

>

> Message: 3

> Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:13:16 -0600

> " Girish M. Aswathanarayana " <girish

> Vishwesha Theertha Swamiji takes over Sarvajna Peeth

>

> In Deccan Herald:

>

> http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/jan19/stud.htm

>

>

_____________________________

>

_____________________________

>

> Message: 4

> Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:28:36 EST

> AsifJah

> Re: BE A BEE IN RELIGIONS

>

> Krishna Bhaktas:

>

> The purported speech of Swamiji in Jordan seems to be quoted out of context.

To understand it better, one needs to know that the speech was delivered to a

group of mainly non-Hindus. It was just a politically correct speech.

>

> It is not appropriate to label everyone who offers the theoretically correct

Maadhva explanation as a " Maadhva extremist " . This is a great disservice to the

Maadhva community.

>

> Comparing Maadhva theoreticians to Southern Baptists is entirely unacceptable.

After all, to be a Maadhva theoretician takes not only long years of learning

but also the grace of Hari Vayu.

>

> Regards,

> Arvind Acharya

>

>

_____________________________

>

_____________________________

>

> Message: 5

> Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:35:55 -0400

> Balaji Hebbar <bhebbar

> The Ayyappan affair

>

> Dear Friends:

>

> On the Ayyappan issue, with all due respect to ideology, one

> needs to consider the historical and cultural factors as well.

> The worship of bhUtas and demi-gods is and has been an

> integral part of the religion of the MalabAr peoples. From

> Ratnagiri in MahArAShTra to Trivandrum in Kerala, it is a

> certain type of culture that is unique to the MalabAr coastal

> region. The coastal MarAthi, KonkaNI, coastal KannaDa, TuLu and

> MalayALam are merely linguistic variations of a fairly uniform

> coastal culture. The ParashurAma legend and pride of descent

> from the sage is again common to all these peoples. The

> architecture, the ritual purity and the tantric style of

> worship in these temples is another common feature and so on.

> His Most Venerable Holiness VAdirAja TIrtharu who himself was

> the " second greatest " son of the soil that we MAdhvas accept

> as one of our gurus was himself faced with this " ideology "

> vs. " local tradition " dilemma during his lifetime. As can be

> gleamed from his bio, i.e. the VAdirAjaguruvaracaritAmRta, he

> refused to enter the village of KuDuma when he came to know

> that the locals offer worship to bhUtarAja aNNappa. After the

> local chieftain, one VarmaNNa HeggaDe (who happened to be a

> Jain and whose ideology was equally opposed to bhUta worship)

> who pleaded repeatedly with our revered guru; the pontiff

> eventually agreed to come only after the establishment of a

> Shiva's (bhUtagaNAdhipati) shrine there. (This clearly fits in

> with HH Puttige SvamIjI's advice to ShrI Gopal Potti to

> worship Shiva before Ayyappan). This deity, of course, is the

> famous Man~junAtheshvara and the village of KuDuma was renamed

> " DharmasthaLa " . Ever since that time, despite the fact that

> both Jain and MAdhva ideologies are opposed to bhUta worship,

> IN DUE DEFERENCE TO THE LOCAL CULTURE, both the HeggaDes as

> well as the MAdhva priests in charge of the Man~junAtha shrine

> offer " worship " to bhUtarAja aNNappa.

> A more modern incident (one to which I was an eyewitness in

> 1979 when studying with HH AdamAr sVAmIjI) I saw the pontiff

> personally accept " prasAda " of flowers and kunkuma from a

> " possessed " person something quite common in the " DakkebalI "

> (South Kanara jAtre and bailanATaka). Again, HH Vibudhesha

> TIrtha SvAmIjI explained to me that it was a deference to

> local custom.

> Therefore, if one divorces situations from their natural

> cultural context, the whole scenario is bound to look odd

> especially given ShrimadAcArya's philosophy. Many a times Hon'ble

> Bannanje himself has quite candidly told me that the hinterland

> Deccan MAdhva culture of the deshathas is quite different from

> the coastal MalabAr MAdhva culture of the TuLus and the

> KonkaNIs. Let us not forget this important aspect. May

> understanding and moderation prevail at least on this issue.

>

> regards,

> Hari-vAyu smaraNa

> B.N.Hebbar

>

>

_____________________________

>

_____________________________

>

> Message: 6

> Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:40:29 EST

> AsifJah

> Re: The Ayyappan affair

>

> In a message Balaji Hebbar <bhebbar writes:

>

> > Many a times Hon'ble

> > Bannanje himself has quite candidly told me > that the hinterland

> > Deccan MAdhva culture of the

> > deshathas is quite

> > different from

> > the coastal MalabAr MAdhva culture of the TuLus > and the

>

> Prof. Hebbar:

>

> As a " hinterland Deccan Madhva " , I am very interested in knowing how we are

" quite different from the coastal Madhva culture " . Can you specify some

examples?

>

> Regards,

> Arvind Acharya

>

>

_____________________________

>

_____________________________

>

> Message: 7

> Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:20:53 -0500

> Gopal Potti <gpotti

> Fwd: Re: Delete my name from VMS list/Third and Final Request

>

> >Sheshagiri Rao <rshesh

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