Bhaghavat Gita lectures by Sri Sathyadhyana Theertha, Q & A Part 1

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hari saRvOththamma, vAyu jIvOththamma

 

shrI gurubhyO namaha

 

QUESTIONS & ANSWERS:

 

Question: Swamiji, you have been teaching that because of Narana was

sleeping in the pralayoka even before the creation of other jeevas like

Brahma & he has been doing all the work involved in creation, &

maintenance of all the chethanas like Brahma, He is purushoththamma, He

is Parabrahma. Since others like Brahma & Rudhra are created by Him &

they are governed by Him, they are different from Parabrahma i.e. they

cannot become sarvoththemma vasthu. Some other people give different

explanations for the above & since there are many different undetermined

meaning for vedas, they say that Vedhas are not reliable.

 

Sri padangalavaru: Please describe briefly their explainations.

 

Sri Subba Rao: At the time of prayala, on the leaf of the Banian tree,

all the chethanas like Brahma, Rudhra, Indra etc must have existed

there, otherwise it will become necessary to say that Narayana created

jeevas which did not exist before. This will contradict the statement

that jeevas are immortal. Therefore, it should be accepted that in the

pralayodaka, there was a thing containing all the chethanas like Brahma,

Rudhra etc & this collection was called Parabrahma Narayana. There is

no need to doubt how a collection of Maharaja, Dewan, Amaldar, etc., a

collection of officers. Therefore, it can be said that the collection

of all the chethanas is Parabrahma vasthu.

 

Or let Narayana, husband of Lakshmi alone be the Vataprathrasyayi. He

alone in His play (leela) took different forms like Brahma, Rudhra,

different animals, dhevas, men by his own free will. Then " Sarvam

Brahma " (B1) " Ayamathma Brahma " (B1) etc become clear. All chethanas are

pieces of Parabrahma, that is they are amsa of Narayana. In this sense

" Mamaivamso jeevaloke " etc statements in puranas become meaningful. In

such circumstances, how can it be said that something which is entirely

different from all chethanas, only one called Narayana was there as

Parabrahma Vasthu?

 

Sripadangalavaru: What is the meaning for the Sruthi " Ye ko narayana

Asith " (B2).

 

Sri Subba Rao: " Asith " means " Avirasith " only Narayana was in the

knowable conditions (Vyaktha), Narayana was not in a knowable for you

also. The avatharas of Bhagavantha as Mathsya, Kurma, Varaha, etc are

only amsas of Bhagavantha? We also intepret the shruthi " Ye Ko Narayana

Asith " in the same way you intepret it.

 

Srigalavaru: Our sidhdhantha is that the entire universe containing

all living & non living prakruthi is amsas of Narayana. The Sruthi

" Padhasya Visvabhuthani " states that all the chethanas are amsas of

Narayana.

 

Sri Subba Rao: Swamiji, the Sruthi means that Brahma is four times as

powerful as the power of all the chethanas. This much is only the power

of God?

 

Srigalavaru: Jnanees think that this Brahmanda which (B3) contains gold

which is surrounded by nine fold, which is like the body for Brahmadeva

& which surrounded by nine fold, which is like the body for Brahmadheva

& which like a box for the devatas to store their wealth & completed by

the groups of Mukthas is a small bhinnamsa of Vishnu who remains in the

six indriyas, enjoys the good aspect of our karmas. The meaning (B4) of

the Purushasukthagama is not that the world is equal to one forth part

of Vishnu but it is only a very small part of numerous amsas of power of

Vishnu.

 

Sri Subba Rao: Swamiji, now it has become wonderful, You seem toagree

Yourself with jeeva Brahma Aikya.

 

Srigalavaru: Let there not be that uncalled for expectation on your

part. The word Amsa has been used in the world in two different ways.

If it is said that Krishna is that Amsa of Narayana, it means Krishna is

Narayana Himself. On the otherhand, if it is said that the strength of

Duryodhana is one tenth amsa of the strength of Bhima, or this richman's

property is one fourth amsa of my property, what is the meaning of amsa

here? Does one fourth of my properthy pass on to the richman or does

one tenth of strength of Bhima passes on to Duryodhana?

 

Sri Subba Rao: It means Duryodhana has a strength which is similar to

one tenth of the strength of Bhima but entirely different from strength

of Bhima; the property of richman is equal to one fourth of my property

but entirely different from it.

 

Srigalavaru: It is correct in this way, the word Amsa has two different

meanings i.e. Svarupamsa & Bhinnamsa. At present, jeevas are not

Svarupamsas of Paramathma, according to Advaithees & ourselves.

 

Sri Subba Rao: Swamiji, Advaitees say that jeeva is Parabrahma. Then

why they do not agree that Brahmadi chethanas are the svarupamsa of

Brahma?

 

Srigalavaru: Yes, you have the proof in Sankara Bhasya Amsadhi Karana.

This means that jeevas are dependent on Parabrahma as such they are

called simply amsa of Parabrahma but actually they are not amsa of

Parabrahma. The meaning of Sankara Bhasya is that just as sparks are

said to be the amsa of fire, the jeevas are said to be the amsa of

Paramathma (in shruthis). Here it should be considered as bhinnamsa as

Parabrahma, He is niravyaya. He has no permanent (Paramarthika) amsa.

 

Sri Subba Rao: For Niravyaya, if there cannot be any permanent amsa, he

cannot be a Lord (Swamithva) also.

 

Srigalavaru: How is that?

 

Sri Subba Rao: I am the Lord (Swamy) of my servant that means I

determine by the action of my senses, what should be the action of the

senses of my servent. Then, how can Brahma who has no permanent sense

organ can be a Lord of so many jeevas?

 

Srigalavaru: This difficulty is unavoidable. Their books are like

that, what can we do?

 

Sri Subba Rao: Swamiji, let the advaithees not accept jeevas as

swarupamsa of Paramathma. What is the difficulty for Dwaitees to accept

jeevas as swaroopamsa of Parabrahma?

 

Srigalavaru: (BG 15-18): All chethanas like Brahma who are subject to

the destruction of body are kshara purushas, Lakshmi who never suffers

the loss of the body is known as Akshara Purushas. Since Paramathma is

higher than both Kshara & akshara purushas & different from them. he is

known as vedas & puranas as Purushoththamma. Since Krishna has declared

as above, we have to treat jeevas as Bhinnamsa of God in the context

" Mamai Vamsojeevaloke "

 

Sri Subba Rao: Then let Matsya, Kurma etc avatharas also be bhinnamsas-

what is the cause of partiality?

 

Srigalavaru: The avatara like Matsya etc are always permanent like

Narayana. i.e. they remain constant in space & time & do not sustain

anything like loss of body, in completeness, miseries, variations &

others being equal or superior. There are clear authorities for these.

" Jeeva yevathu dhukhinaha " (B5) " Kshara sarvani bhuthana " &

" Purnamadhaha Purnamidham purathpurnamudha Chyuthe " etc (B6) sruthies.

Firther if we say that jeevas are amsas of Parabrahma, he will have to

suffer sorrow & variations when he is in the body of dog, lamb, fowl

etc.. Brahma who is completely changeless how can he have any variation?

 

Sri Subba Rao: It amounts that you decide to treat jeevas as bhinnamsa

since jeevas suffer loss of body & variations caused by pleasure & pain

in life & paramathma is permanent (Nithya) constant (Nirvakara) in the

context of " Mamaivamse jeevaloke "

 

Srigalavaru. That is not all. There are clear Sruthies. One who stays

in Prithvi (Abhimanidhevathe) & different from Prithvi........ is the

antheryami (inner controller), one who is in agni & different from

agni....... is his Antheryami (i.e. the inner controller of Agni), one

who is in antharikha (Sky) & who is different from sky..... he is the

inner controller of sky (Abhimanidhevatha)......etc. In this way, in

twenty three sentences, it has been stated dhevathas like prithvi are

different from paramathma. Therefore, jeevas cannot be considered as

swarupamsa (real part) of paramathma.

 

Sri Subba Rao: In these sruthies, difference has been clearly stated.

Now how these have been explained in Advaitha Bhashya?

 

Srigalavaru: In his bhasya, under Brahmasuthra

" Sareeraschebhayepihibhedhenainamedheeyathe " (B3) Sankaracharya also has

stated that there is difference between jeevas & Brahma. In his Suthra

Bhashya, Shankaracharya thinking that jeeva himself might be the

Antheryami in prithvi etc.. has made the first statement (purvapaksha)

but subsequently finding that both in Kanva branch & MAdhyandina branch

under " Yeignanethishton " (B7) & " Yathmani thishton " etc... that Brahma

remaining in jeeva & controlling him. He has inferred that jeeva is not

eligible for sarvantharyamithwa & has decided in sidhdhantha (final

decision) as " Thasma chchareeradhanya Easwarentharyamithisidhdham "

Therefore Easwara different from jeeva is antharyami.

 

Sri Subba Rao: Then has not this decision damaged advaithees.

 

Srigalavaru: The difference between jeeva & Brahma & Antheryamithwa

finally arrived at under this Shruthies is from the point of view of

ajnanees-vyavaharaka, not (B14 & 15) paramarthika.

 

Sri Subba Rao: It is very wonderful. It is well known in the world

that first statement (purvapaksha) is made due to ignorance & final

decision (Sidhdhantha) is made on mature consideration (Paramarthika).

Here first statement has been made by ignorance let jeeva be brahma, let

jeeva is Antheryami. If the final decision (Sidhdhantha) is also made

by ignorance, that jeeva is not brahma, that jeeva is not antheryami,

how are we to decide which is right & which is wrong.

 

Srigalavaru: For the answer of this question, you should ask only

advaitees. this much is certain that there are many such doubts &

clarifications in Sankara Bhasya.

 

Sri Subba Rao: Swamiji, in this Suthra Bhasya, one who made the

statement that jeeva is brahma, that jeeva is antharyami is jnaanees who

has paramarthika view point, one who made the final statement

(Sidhdhantha), that jeeva is antharyami, i.e. Sidhdhanthi is ajnanee &

he has vyavaharika point of view. Such peculiar situations may not be

found anywhere else. If there is, kindly show me a famous one.

 

to be contd.........................................................

 

Lectures on Bhaghavath Geetha (Dhwaitha Siddhantha Vaijayanthi)

by H. H. Sri Sathya Dhyana Thirtha Sri Padhangalavaru, Uttradhi Mutt

Translated into English by Sri Krishnamurthy

 

Published by Sri M. R. Krishnamurthy & Sri M. N. Gururaja Rao of Mumbai

 

Printed at:

Parishree Printers

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Telephone # (80)368286

 

All rights remain with Uttradhi Mutt, Basavangudi, Bangalore 560004

Permission was given to post it in this list by the Uttradhi Mutt

authorities & by Sri SathyAthma Thirtha Swamiji of Uttradhi Mutt.

 

Sri kRuShNARpanamasthu