Guest guest Posted December 7, 2000 Report Share Posted December 7, 2000 hari sarvottamma, vaayu jiivottamma shrii gurubhyo namaha shrii kR^iShNa parabrahmane namaha MUKTHI NAIJA SUKHA NUBHUTHIHI: DESCRIPTION OF NATURE OF MUKTHI: MUKTHI SVARUPA NIRUPANA: ESTABLISHMENT OF MUKTHI ENJOYMENT OF SVARUPANANDA OF JEEVAS Question: Swamy, you have told us that chethana by nature ajnanee. But in samsaraa, he has been covered by avidhya etc.... Hence his intrinsic intelligence (jnana) is not able to understand either paramathma or his own natural qualities. Further, it cannot over come avidhya jnana has the natural quality of destroying ajnana. If it cannot destroy ajnana, then it is not a thing fit to be called jnana. A thing that cannot remove darkness, call it be called a light? In such situation, even in Mukthas, how can it directly understand paramathma? Therefore Your explaination is very doubtful. If chethana by nature a jnanee, for over coming a jnanee(avidya) he would not required outside help. Sri Srigalavaru: People having good experience of situations in the world would not doubt like this. Please hear a story. There was a wrestler, who had developed in is mussles & strength very well. One day, when he was going in street to see Maharaja, a big wall of a big old building fell on him & covered him with mud etc... but his two long arms were free. He was unconscious for some time, when he regained his senses, he began to remove the mud by his own hands, it was not possible for his hands alone to complete the task. The passers by & servants of Raja removed most of it when only few stones were remaining, the wrestler by his own strength removed them & got up. Maharaja was much pleased with him for his strength that he did not die when a house wall fell on him. He was very obedient tto the Ruler. Hence Maharaja gave him a good life pension. The wrestler was pleased & used to walk in the streets still more majestically like an elephant. The history of chethanas deserving mukthi is similar. Such a chethana has been from a beginningless time under the control of paramathma with his intrinsic jnana Ananda, strength, etc... But exceeding very much even to his power i.e. so powerful that not only they are not destroyed by his intrinsic power, but that could over come his intrinsic power, of prakruthi avidhya, kama, karma etc covering are there. Further, there is the most powerful easwaracheche, that the chethana should be in bandha. For chethana, who covered by these coverings justas a person wearing dress is not aware of his intrinsic abilities. But he is aware of his existence. This awareness remains with chethana always when he is awake, he is sleeping, dreaming, when he is in swoon, in death etc... He is able to understand his existence by his own intrinsic jnana in all conditions. Sankaracharya also has agreed, just as dhvaithies say that no one has any doubt about the existence at any stage. Even when chethana is imprisoned indifferent births, all his pleasure & pain in these births he is experiencing through his svarupendriyas. This power to experience is also his intrinsic & it is with him in all stages & conditions. He also retains to a limited extend his power of asking his jnanedriyas & karmendriyas to do what he wills such a chethana who is not feeling aware of his own abilities is helped by the kind passers like vyasabhaghavan, dhevathas like Brahmadeva etc.... Gurus like Sri Anandhathirtha from such passers by, he will understand the real position & way to get over his difficulties. He gets the enthusiasm to try to get over the Bandha. He will start doing sandhya, sravana, manana, dhyana etc... God will be pleased with his own efforts & the recommendation of other dhevathas & get the wish that he should free his chethana. When he comes to the conclusion " yenammochayami " , I am going to be free this chethana, he by his grace grants his darshan (aparokshajnana) from which the chethanas intrinsic happiness will arise & he will become free bandha & attain Mukthi. He will be enjoying his intrinsic happiness for ever. God will provide them suitable position for them (Mukti) in lokas like vaikunta & make them regain all the intrinsic qualities. Chethana is compared to a rubber ball just as it shrinks in size when pressure is applied & regains its original size when pressure is released. Similarly chethana suffers in many births etc... shrinking in his natural ability, but once by God's grace , the bhandha is removed, he attain mukthi, his intrinsic form & ability & remains in suitable position in lokas like vaikunta as granted by paramathma always remaining under the control of paramathma & enjoying his intrinsic happiness for ever. Here, some further consideration is necessary. If the chethana, who is " Aham " were to be " parabrahma' intrinsically, it could have been said that when he is covered his brahmathva would remain covered & when bandha is removed, his brahmathva would be uncovered & he regains his original brahmathva. But Advaithies would never directly accept the proposition that intrinsic Brahma would temporarily lose his Brahmathva due to bandha & regain same after the removal of bandha. To overcome this difficulty, they say the prakruthi bandha is Mithya as the world is Mithya. We have already shown that world is sathya (real). Then, when the world is sathya, it becomes clear that there is a chethana called " Brahma " whose in real bandhu & who is aware only of his existence but he is not aware of his brahmathva. This is known by experience. Therefore, they have to accept that brahmathva is not apparent but it will be acquired after the removal of the bandha. To avoid this position, advaithies say that the thing called " Aham " is only " Anthahkarana " . This means bandha for jada & mukthi also for jada. This position is pure sankhya system, which has been mercilessly condemned by sankaracharya without realising that his advaitha system comes to the same destruction. If the system of Ramanujacharya were to be true, it could have been said that Brahmasamya covered by prakruthi bandha, after the removal of the bandha, the brahma samya would reappear. Both are thathvas with great defects. " Purnamadhaha " " Dhevamahimnaha paramanthamapa " etc... are against these provisos. Incorrectness of both the systems can be seen by another reason. apart from it , being sadguna or nirguna, parabraham is purna always. It is always paripurna Svayamprakasa & nirvikara. It can not be subjected to any bandha. Brahmathva means purnathva. If it is said that Brahmathva is covered, scholars, will say, " Can you call such weak thing that subjects itself to be covered paripuran? A thing which is poorna can never be covered or undergo any variation. A thing which is poorna can never be covered or undergo any variation. A thing which is covered or undergoes variation is not purna.' no body can answer this objection. This defect is in Ramanuja system also. Because in Mukthi, they say the chethana will have Brahma Samya in Anandha. Brahma samya means chethana is purna like brahma. Then all defects that are pointed out against the theory that says that Brahma losses his Brahma thva temporarily & regains it after the removal of bandha are applicable. Therefore, this system cannot be accepted by wise people. According to this system, a chethana intrinsically equal to Brahma caught in samsaras not being able to get himself free, calls for help from another chethana in vaikuntha (Vishnu). Since Vishnu also has the same strength as the chethana that has been caught in samsara. Hence, how can he save his friend from the murderous samsara sagara which has more than his strength? Therefore, there is no prospect of Mukthi for any body in this system. Therefore, it should be rejected. Question: Swamy, what is your wonderful argument? If a heavy bag falls on my body though it is difficult for me, who is under the bag to lift it, another who has equal strength with me, who is outside may remove it, or both of us may remove. Though the chethana who is in samsara is unable to free himself, what is the objection for Vishnu who is in Vaikunta to free all chethana's in samsara? TO BE CONTINUED................................................................. Lectures on Bhaghavath Geetha (Dhwaitha Siddhantha Vaijayanthi) by H. H. Sri Sathya Dhyana Thirtha Sri Padhangalavaru, Uttradhi Mutt Translated into English by Sri Krishnamurthy Published by Sri M. R. Krishnamurthy & Sri M. N. Gururaja Rao of Mumbai Printed at: Parishree Printers 100/3 Nagappa Street Palace Guttahalli Bangalore 5600 04 Telephone # (80)36828 All rights remain with Uttradhi Mutt, Basavangudi, Bangalore 560004 Permission was given to post it in this list by the Uttradhi Mutt authorities & by Sri SathyAthma Thirtha Swamiji of Uttradhi Mutt. bhAratIramaNamukhyaprANA.ntargata shri kR^iShNArpanamasthu ............................................................................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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