Guest guest Posted February 19, 2001 Report Share Posted February 19, 2001 Dear Haribhaktas It is very well documented in his Biography Thomas manro had a fluent conversation with Sri-raghavendra swamy (in English). It is available in UK as well as in india. Sri-Aralumallige parthasarathy has wriiten one book on Sri-rayaru you can find in that book also. rgds/prasad GOPALAKRISHNA.B VARNA [bgkvarna] Monday, February 19, 2001 2:11 PM ; Kukka Thoka Sir Thomas Manro .... Dear Haribhakthas, It is good that we came across an opportunity to memorise about this incident of Thamos Manro Shri. It would be very informative if any one can post exactly what happened in this incident and clarify this. Can anyone please let us know what exactly written or mentioned by Thomas Manro? Shri Hari Priyatham. B.Gopalakrishna --- Kukka Thoka <kukka_thoka wrote: > > dear mr.shrinivas, > > for a man carrying a hammer everything looks > like a nail. you are trying to intrepret the > events to you own convenient pre-defined > hypothesis. > regarding sri raghavendra swamy, i don't understand > why his ability to speak fluent english is so > inconcievable for you. saints like him have > attained a state that mere mortals like us > cannot understand. Get personalized email addresses from Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail./ nAham kartA hariH kartA tatpUjA karmachaakhilam.h| taThaapi matkR^itaa pUja tatprasaadhEna naanyaThaa| tadbhakti tadphalam.h mahyam.h tatprasaadaat.h punaH punaH | karmanyaasO harAvevam.h vishNOsthR^iptikaraH sadhA || " I am not the doer, shri Hari is the doer, all the actions that I do are His worship. Even then, the worship I do is through His grace and not otherwise. That devotion and the fruits of the actions that come to me are due to His recurring grace " If one always practices to do actions with a dedicated spirit to Hari, in this way, it pleases Vishnu. --- Quoted by Sri madhvAchArya in GitA tAtparya To send an empty E-mail (without subject and body info.) to - or go the web page /community/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2001 Report Share Posted February 19, 2001 Dear Haribhakthas, It is good that we came across an opportunity to memorise about this incident of Thamos Manro Shri. It would be very informative if any one can post exactly what happened in this incident and clarify this. Can anyone please let us know what exactly written or mentioned by Thomas Manro? Shri Hari Priyatham. B.Gopalakrishna --- Kukka Thoka <kukka_thoka wrote: > > dear mr.shrinivas, > > for a man carrying a hammer everything looks > like a nail. you are trying to intrepret the > events to you own convenient pre-defined > hypothesis. > regarding sri raghavendra swamy, i don't understand > why his ability to speak fluent english is so > inconcievable for you. saints like him have > attained a state that mere mortals like us > cannot understand. Get personalized email addresses from Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Dear Vaishnava friends, Before I present my two cents worth of analysis about Sri Raghavendra yathi's knowledge of English, I would like to reproduce an extract from a journal called " Madras Review " , volume 8 and page 740. The famous Munroe incident which happened in the early part of 19th century had been published by the then Madras government in Bellary Gezzatteer. Here are the details: " Madras District Gazetteers By W. Francis Esq. I.C.S. Reprint 1916 by the Superintendent Government Press, Madras, Chapter XV and Adoni Taluk - Page No. 213 Mantsala (Mantralaya) (is) a shrotriem village with a population of 1212 on the bank of the Tungabhadra in the extreme north of the Taluk. The village is widely known as containing the tomb of the Madhava saint, Shri Raghavendra Swami. The annual festival connected with which is attended by a large number of piligrims including even lingayats from Bombay, the Nizam's Dominion and even Mysore. The tomb itself is not of architectural interest. The grant of the landed endowment attached to it is said in of the Mackenzic MSS to have been made by Venkanna Pant, the well known Diwan of Siddi, Masaud Khan, Governer of Adoni from 1662-1687. A quaint story of Sir Thomas Muntoe is told about the place. The endowment being threatened with resumption. Munroe, it is said, came to make enquiries. After removing his boots and taking of his hat he approached the grave. The saint thereupon emerged from his tomb and met him. They conversed together for sometime regarding the resumption, but though the saint was visible and audible to Munroe none of the others who were there could either see him or hear what he said. The discussion ended, Munroe returned to his tent and quashed the proposal to resume the endowment. Being offered some consecrated rice he accepted it and ordered it to be used in the prepartion of his meals for that day. Madras Review VIII, 280. " Also, in an English book " Sri Raghavendra Guruprasada " by Sri Srimushnam Nagarajachar of Sriranga (Tamil Nadu)he has provided more details on the Munroe incident. It is reproduced as below: " NEW LIGHT OF MUNROE EPISODE " Venkanna Panth, A Dewan of Muslim Ruler had granted (sometime prior to 1670) some lands in the village Mantralaya (or village itself) to Sri Raghavendra. About 150 years later, when the country was under British rule, the then government reviewed all the old cases of Inam Lands granted to the religious institutions. Sir Thomas Munroe, the then collector of Bellary was camping at Mantralaya to examine whether to allow or not the old gifts granted to the institution. The governer is reported to have visioned Sri Raghavnedra Swamy and had conversation with him and had subsequently confirmed the gifts granted to the Mutt. He is also said to have recieved a few grains of sacred rice from the saint. Even though the governer was in the midst of others, the vision was exclusively for him and others knew nothing. The then government thought it fit to record this incident in the most important document, The District Gazettee (Madras) Reprint 1916, Chapter 15 (Adoni Taluk) Page 213. To a great Yogic and an acknowledged Master of Yogic powers, surely there were several other means open, if he chose, to get an Inam confirmed and he could have got it done without giving darshan to anyone. While Munroe went on record with his darshan, it is no where recorded as to what was the nature of the talk. We may not question the trustworthiness of the stroy, but the question would still remain unanswered as to why Sri Raghavendra chose to give darshan to Munroe alone. It is impossible to get at the workings of the minds of great saints like who could never be judged by means of the ordinary scale. But we can approch the problem from Munroe's side and search for a point whether Munroe had a similar visions else where. A short time before his death, whilst on his way to Bellary, Munroe passed through a valley below the ghats where the river Papghni breaks throgh hills. While riding, he suddenly stopped and looked up at the steep cliffs above and remarked to the others raiding behind: " What a beautiful garland of floweres they have streched across the valley. " They all looked but said they could see nothing. Sir Thomas made no further remarks. We have this incident recorded on page 105 - " Manual of the Ditrict of Bellary " - Compiled and Edited by J.D.B. Gribble, M.C.S., 1875. In another book titled " The Rulers of India " edited by Sir William Wilson Hunter, on Page 210 we have the same reference. Munroe was loved so much by his people that even decades after his death (1827), boys in Bellary district were named after him as " Munrolappa " . Wandering mendicants sang songs in his praise. The bungalow he used, the Tope he rested in, were all regarded by the people as sacred spots. Therefore, if Sri Raghavendra chose to give darshan exclusively to Munroe in midst of so many, it must be that Munroe was deserving soul, worthy of a sacred vision, and worthy of the grace of a great guru by virtue of some unforseen merit, the secret of which Sri Raghvendra alone knew. The Inam episode must be viewed only as Nimittaakarana. " (I obtained the above information from Sri Dr. Aralu Mallige Parthasarathy's Kannada book " Sri Raghavendra Swamigalu " published by Dasa Sahithya Academy of Bangalore.) From the above information we can see the following possibilities: As there was no interpreter both must have conversed in one of the languages. Therefore: a) Sri Raghavendra may have induced some special power to Monroe and spoken to him in the deva bhasha samskrita or his mother tongue Kannada or the local language Telugu, so that Sir Monroe could understand Sri Raghavendra. b) Sri Raghavendra and Sir Monroe may have conversed in English Language. Neither of the above tasks is impossbile for a great Aproksha Jnani like Sri Raghavendra. In fact, it has been well documented in the history of great Aparoxa Jnani's like Sri Vijya Rayaru (Who made a dumb and deaf bramhin a temprary Sudha scholar), Sri Ragothama thirtha (who made a humble cook great scholar) and Sri Raghavendra himself who made an illiterate Venkanna a diwan. Please note that all these things happened just by the blessings of the respective gurus. Based on these facts, it was not at all difficult for Sri Raghavendra Thirtha to achieve a). For a great saint who can achieve a), why is it difficult for him to speak English (which is after all not a mother of all languages..) and that too in British accent? Also, it is well documented by Srimad Achrya's contemporray Narayana Pandithacharya that Acharya spoke persian. Although, Sri Gurusarvabouma should not be compared to Achrya Madwa himself, I would like to point out that for great Aparoxa Jnanis, conversing in a foriegn language is not at all an issue. I think the main problem among us (so called rationals..) is we try to (most of the times unknowingly) think great jnanis just like fellow humans just because they had prakrutha sharira. Let us not get carried way by this " nimitta mathra " incidents and maintain our focus on their thathva jnana, bhakthi and vairagya. I tried to analyze the above issue yathamati and as inspired by Sri Raghavendra Guru antharghatha bharathi ramana mukyapraana anthargatha sri Digvijaya Rama. Poojyaya Raghavendraya Sathya Dharma Rathaaya cha Bhajathaam kalapvrukshaaya namathaam kaamadhenuve Durvaadi Dvantha Ravaye Vaishnava indireva induve Sri Raghavendra Guruve NamaH athyantha dayaLuve. Regards, Murthy , " GOPALAKRISHNA.B VARNA " <bgkvarna> wrote: > Dear Haribhakthas, > > It is good that we came across an opportunity to memorise about this > incident of Thamos Manro Shri. It would be very informative if any one > can post exactly what happened in this incident and clarify this. > > Can anyone please let us know what exactly written or mentioned by > Thomas Manro? > > Shri Hari Priyatham. > B.Gopalakrishna > > --- Kukka Thoka <kukka_thoka> wrote: > > > > dear mr.shrinivas, > > > > for a man carrying a hammer everything looks > > like a nail. you are trying to intrepret the > > events to you own convenient pre-defined > > hypothesis. > > regarding sri raghavendra swamy, i don't understand > > why his ability to speak fluent english is so > > inconcievable for you. saints like him have > > attained a state that mere mortals like us > > cannot understand. > > > > > Get personalized email addresses from Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Dear HAribhakthas, It is really enlightening to go through these details. My pranamas to Shri Murthy Navarathna for getting us this wonderful information. > Therefore, if Sri Raghavendra chose to give darshan exclusively to > Munroe in midst of so many, it must be that Munroe was deserving > soul, worthy of a sacred vision, and worthy of the grace of a great > guru by virtue of some unforseen merit, the secret of which Sri > Raghvendra alone knew. The Inam episode must be viewed only as > Nimittaakarana. " > Do we have any further info about Munroe, like how was his life style, was he practicing hindu life style, did he consider this incident a turning point in his life, did this incident had any impact on his life style. Do we have any other reference about this incident by any other contemporary authors or the then swamiji of Mantralaya? Did any one has done any detailed study of this incident? I strongly believe that we need to pass on these valuable informations, to our next generation, not as a simple story but in facts and figures and proper explantions. Else we will be questioning these kind of incidents again and again;( that is human natue; and that is to be done; jijnasa). Shri Hari priyatham B.Gopalakrishna Get personalized email addresses from Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 , " GOPALAKRISHNA.B VARNA " <bgkvarna> wrote: > Do we have any further info about Munroe, like how was his life > style, was he practicing hindu life style, did he consider this > incident a turning point in his life, did this incident had any impact > on his life style. An editorial in the " Tribune India " news paper at http://www.tribuneindia.com/99dec31/edit.htm#5 indicates Sir Monroe's opinon about India: " Sir Thomas Munroe, the British governor of Madras Presidency, had this to say about those who judged India wrongly — " Foreign conquerors have treated Indians with violence and often with great cruelty, but none has treated them with contempt and so much scorn as we " . That scorn has continued to our times. But no matter, India will triumph and very soon, for the signs are all there to see. Throughout the ages, India has sought an inner perfection, not so much the outward adornments, and it is for this goal for inner perfection that the Western world is turning to today. " It also appears that Sri Munroe helped many temples in Vijayanagar and Cuddappah. Please see the following website: http://www.andhratoday.com/digit/dcuddapah3.htm > Do we have any other reference about this incident by any other > contemporary authors or the then swamiji of Mantralaya? Did any one has > done any detailed study of this incident? Although we have not seen any documentary evidence, one of my close friend has heard the following story about Sir Munroe from someone in Manthralaya: Munro is believed to be a very pious and orthodox brahmin in his previous life. Having seen a lot of poverty in his life (and not having the equanimity of rAyaru to deal with it), he prayed to Sri Hari, Vayu and rayaru to give him a life of wealth, comfort and power. They granted this to him, but told him that at an appropriate stage in his life he would see rAyaru in person also. The flowers in the valley incident. I believe this is the welcome arch that Sugriva put up for Lord Ramachandra and that it exists even to this day, but in sUkshma form. ANybody who sees that dies within a month. Because of his vast punya from his previous birth, Monroe had earned this privilege. It is up to the seekers to research this matter further. Regards, Murthy Hari Smarane mado Niranthara.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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