Guest guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Hi All To add some more points as told by my elders.. In 17th century, plague broke out in Karnataka.. which led to migration towards Southern districts of Tamilnadu.. Regards Viswesvaran suresh maruthi [maruthisuresh]Tuesday, May 20, 2003 3:45 PM Cc: algrSubject: Re: various groups in Madhva community-IDear AllIt is an interesting topic for research, with littledocumentation.1. The deccan area of maharashtra has always been afertile area for Madhva philosophy. There is even areason to believe that even Sri padmanabha tirthahailed from this region.(he hailed from godavariregion which is not only Andhra as is generallythought)Vyasa ramacharya and many other scholars hail fromthis area.2. Marathi speaking madhvas hail from Punatambe(punyastamba pura- sri vidyadheesa thirtha hailed fromthis area near Phaitan- an important centre ofVaisnavite learning and spirituality in the 16thcentury off Aurangabad). They also hail fromSajjangarh off modern Pune. This is based on certainlinguistic research.I am in touch with a US basedresearcher more out of interest.3. Migration of marathi speaking madhvas to Tamilnaduis three major reasons: a. meditation, and tapas (somefamilies migrated to tamraparni riverside in southtamilnadu to do gayatri upasana)b. Itineracy of Uttaradi matha saints during thedisturbed political conditions in deccan duringAurangazeb's period. Invariably most marathi speakingmadhvas migrated alongwith them to Thanjavur. Thereare atleast 6 moola brindavans of uttaradi mathasaints of which atleast 3 or belong to the latermughal period (sathyanatha, sathyabhinava,sathyavijaya, sathyapriya).c. Shivaji's step brother venkaji was based atthanjavur and had a dispute. To check him, an army wassent under the leadership of marathi speaking madhvabrahmin who was later appointed as subedar ofmannargudi. many agraharas were set up in this periodand lots of marathi madhvas settled in Thanjavur invarious agraharas in cauvery belt (koviladi,thirukkattupalli, sriramasamudram to name a few-allfertile places, with ancient vishnu temples). Thissort of major migration continued say till 1715 or so.d. In bits and pieces, this continued till 1857 . Thisis true of even smartha marathi brahmins. Marathispeaking madhvas had (and have even to this day)enormous respect for uttaradi matha saints andcontributed immensely to their influence inThanjavur-the ruling family was Bhonsle and otherMaratha areas such as Indore, Baroda.The influence was so high that a smartha marathiminister in 17th century wrote a prasahasti in praiseof an uttaradi matha saint.Some of them became Madhvasas well.A few marathi madhvas are affiliated to Sriraghavendra matha. They are mostly samavedins or thosebelonging to vishnuvriddha gotra who lived in placessuch as Bhuvanagiri in South Arcot district (not farfrom Thanjavur) from where Sri Raghavendra hailed.Some of them came into Madhva fold during SriRaghavendra's visit to Satara etc. Sri Sudhindrathirtha also brought certain marathi brahmins inBijapur area into madhva fold.A view expressed by some, that kannada speakingmadhvas switched over to marathi for politicalbenefits in Thanjavur in 17th century is incorrect. Why only kannadigas should switch over, why nottelugus or tamil speaking people in this region? As pointed out earlier, present day southernmaharashtra has always been a fertile area for madhvathought from Acharya's days (see Sumadhva Vijaya). Absence of similar surnames in present day Maharashtrais not a sufficient basis as well. (My grandfather ,father , all my uncles and relatives have "rao" as asurname. But many of my cousins, my brother and I haveattached our family name. Does it imply that we arenot connected to the previous generation ofMadhvas!)Change of surnames is not a basis to say thatAcharya did not have marathi speaking followers. In fact even the Bhagavata sect in Maharashtra,Mahanubhava sect have all been influenced by Acharya'sthoughtsSuresh "Rao ALG" <algr> RE: Various groups in Madhwa community> > Namaskara,> > the origin of madhwas in tamilnadu has been a> unanswered question with me> for long. if anyone could explain, would be> grateful. since i am from> tamilnadu and speak marathi / kannada at home, many> used to ask me how you> came to TN.> > i have a vague rememberance of saying that madhwas> migrated to TN during the> Peshwa's regime to Tanjore side. since then they> have settled there. i do> not know how far this is true.> > If the learned members could exlain, would be> grateful.> Hare Krishna> Rao ALG> > arvachar [pvram]> Friday, May 16, 2003 2:43 AM> > Various groups in> Madhwa community> > > Namaskara,> I would like to know about the various> groups in madhwa> community like ARAVELU, BALAGANADU,> ARAVATH-VAK-KULU etc.> What does it mean ?> is there any differences in customs among these> groups?> What make the madhwas to come to Tamilnadu? (> according my knowledge> there is no madhwa whose mother tongue is Tamil )> Invasion or Famine or Flood or ...?> > Regards,> Venkatram> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Dear All It is an interesting topic for research, with little documentation. 1. The deccan area of maharashtra has always been a fertile area for Madhva philosophy. There is even a reason to believe that even Sri padmanabha tirtha hailed from this region.(he hailed from godavari region which is not only Andhra as is generally thought) Vyasa ramacharya and many other scholars hail from this area. 2. Marathi speaking madhvas hail from Punatambe (punyastamba pura- sri vidyadheesa thirtha hailed from this area near Phaitan- an important centre of Vaisnavite learning and spirituality in the 16th century off Aurangabad). They also hail from Sajjangarh off modern Pune. This is based on certain linguistic research.I am in touch with a US based researcher more out of interest. 3. Migration of marathi speaking madhvas to Tamilnadu is three major reasons: a. meditation, and tapas (some families migrated to tamraparni riverside in south tamilnadu to do gayatri upasana) b. Itineracy of Uttaradi matha saints during the disturbed political conditions in deccan during Aurangazeb's period. Invariably most marathi speaking madhvas migrated alongwith them to Thanjavur. There are atleast 6 moola brindavans of uttaradi matha saints of which atleast 3 or belong to the later mughal period (sathyanatha, sathyabhinava, sathyavijaya, sathyapriya). c. Shivaji's step brother venkaji was based at thanjavur and had a dispute. To check him, an army was sent under the leadership of marathi speaking madhva brahmin who was later appointed as subedar of mannargudi. many agraharas were set up in this period and lots of marathi madhvas settled in Thanjavur in various agraharas in cauvery belt (koviladi, thirukkattupalli, sriramasamudram to name a few-all fertile places, with ancient vishnu temples). This sort of major migration continued say till 1715 or so. d. In bits and pieces, this continued till 1857 . This is true of even smartha marathi brahmins. Marathi speaking madhvas had (and have even to this day) enormous respect for uttaradi matha saints and contributed immensely to their influence in Thanjavur-the ruling family was Bhonsle and other Maratha areas such as Indore, Baroda. The influence was so high that a smartha marathi minister in 17th century wrote a prasahasti in praise of an uttaradi matha saint.Some of them became Madhvas as well. A few marathi madhvas are affiliated to Sri raghavendra matha. They are mostly samavedins or those belonging to vishnuvriddha gotra who lived in places such as Bhuvanagiri in South Arcot district (not far from Thanjavur) from where Sri Raghavendra hailed. Some of them came into Madhva fold during Sri Raghavendra's visit to Satara etc. Sri Sudhindra thirtha also brought certain marathi brahmins in Bijapur area into madhva fold. A view expressed by some, that kannada speaking madhvas switched over to marathi for political benefits in Thanjavur in 17th century is incorrect. Why only kannadigas should switch over, why not telugus or tamil speaking people in this region? As pointed out earlier, present day southern maharashtra has always been a fertile area for madhva thought from Acharya's days (see Sumadhva Vijaya). Absence of similar surnames in present day Maharashtra is not a sufficient basis as well. (My grandfather , father , all my uncles and relatives have " rao " as a surname. But many of my cousins, my brother and I have attached our family name. Does it imply that we are not connected to the previous generation of Madhvas!)Change of surnames is not a basis to say that Acharya did not have marathi speaking followers. In fact even the Bhagavata sect in Maharashtra, Mahanubhava sect have all been influenced by Acharya's thoughts Suresh " Rao ALG " <algr > RE: Various groups in Madhwa community > > Namaskara, > > the origin of madhwas in tamilnadu has been a > unanswered question with me > for long. if anyone could explain, would be > grateful. since i am from > tamilnadu and speak marathi / kannada at home, many > used to ask me how you > came to TN. > > i have a vague rememberance of saying that madhwas > migrated to TN during the > Peshwa's regime to Tanjore side. since then they > have settled there. i do > not know how far this is true. > > If the learned members could exlain, would be > grateful. > Hare Krishna > Rao ALG > > arvachar [pvram] > Friday, May 16, 2003 2:43 AM > > Various groups in > Madhwa community > > > Namaskara, > I would like to know about the various > groups in madhwa > community like ARAVELU, BALAGANADU, > ARAVATH-VAK-KULU etc. > What does it mean ? > is there any differences in customs among these > groups? > What make the madhwas to come to Tamilnadu? ( > according my knowledge > there is no madhwa whose mother tongue is Tamil ) > Invasion or Famine or Flood or ...? > > Regards, > Venkatram > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Dear Sri Suresh, I read your writing with a lot of interest. Would appreciate your sharing with us any other little (or not popoularly) known facts. Any thing you can share with us regarding " Aravathu Hokkulu, Balaganadu etc " in this e-mail thread? Also, Sri Vijyaeendra Theertharu, migration of Madhwas from Vijayanagara to Kumbakonam? Sri Raghavendra Theertharu's poorvaashrama grand father etc migration after fall of Vijayanagara? Thanks and namaskaragalu. Bindu suresh maruthi [maruthisuresh] Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:15 AM Cc: algr Re: various groups in Madhva community-I Dear All It is an interesting topic for research, with little documentation. 1. The deccan area of maharashtra has always been a fertile area for Madhva philosophy. There is even a reason to believe that even Sri padmanabha tirtha hailed from this region.(he hailed from godavari region which is not only Andhra as is generally thought) Vyasa ramacharya and many other scholars hail from this area. 2. Marathi speaking madhvas hail from Punatambe (punyastamba pura- sri vidyadheesa thirtha hailed from this area near Phaitan- an important centre of Vaisnavite learning and spirituality in the 16th century off Aurangabad). They also hail from Sajjangarh off modern Pune. This is based on certain linguistic research.I am in touch with a US based researcher more out of interest. 3. Migration of marathi speaking madhvas to Tamilnadu is three major reasons: a. meditation, and tapas (some families migrated to tamraparni riverside in south tamilnadu to do gayatri upasana) b. Itineracy of Uttaradi matha saints during the disturbed political conditions in deccan during Aurangazeb's period. Invariably most marathi speaking madhvas migrated alongwith them to Thanjavur. There are atleast 6 moola brindavans of uttaradi matha saints of which atleast 3 or belong to the later mughal period (sathyanatha, sathyabhinava, sathyavijaya, sathyapriya). c. Shivaji's step brother venkaji was based at thanjavur and had a dispute. To check him, an army was sent under the leadership of marathi speaking madhva brahmin who was later appointed as subedar of mannargudi. many agraharas were set up in this period and lots of marathi madhvas settled in Thanjavur in various agraharas in cauvery belt (koviladi, thirukkattupalli, sriramasamudram to name a few-all fertile places, with ancient vishnu temples). This sort of major migration continued say till 1715 or so. d. In bits and pieces, this continued till 1857 . This is true of even smartha marathi brahmins. Marathi speaking madhvas had (and have even to this day) enormous respect for uttaradi matha saints and contributed immensely to their influence in Thanjavur-the ruling family was Bhonsle and other Maratha areas such as Indore, Baroda. The influence was so high that a smartha marathi minister in 17th century wrote a prasahasti in praise of an uttaradi matha saint.Some of them became Madhvas as well. A few marathi madhvas are affiliated to Sri raghavendra matha. They are mostly samavedins or those belonging to vishnuvriddha gotra who lived in places such as Bhuvanagiri in South Arcot district (not far from Thanjavur) from where Sri Raghavendra hailed. Some of them came into Madhva fold during Sri Raghavendra's visit to Satara etc. Sri Sudhindra thirtha also brought certain marathi brahmins in Bijapur area into madhva fold. A view expressed by some, that kannada speaking madhvas switched over to marathi for political benefits in Thanjavur in 17th century is incorrect. Why only kannadigas should switch over, why not telugus or tamil speaking people in this region? As pointed out earlier, present day southern maharashtra has always been a fertile area for madhva thought from Acharya's days (see Sumadhva Vijaya). Absence of similar surnames in present day Maharashtra is not a sufficient basis as well. (My grandfather , father , all my uncles and relatives have " rao " as a surname. But many of my cousins, my brother and I have attached our family name. Does it imply that we are not connected to the previous generation of Madhvas!)Change of surnames is not a basis to say that Acharya did not have marathi speaking followers. In fact even the Bhagavata sect in Maharashtra, Mahanubhava sect have all been influenced by Acharya's thoughts Suresh " Rao ALG " <algr > RE: Various groups in Madhwa community > > Namaskara, > > the origin of madhwas in tamilnadu has been a > unanswered question with me > for long. if anyone could explain, would be > grateful. since i am from > tamilnadu and speak marathi / kannada at home, many > used to ask me how you > came to TN. > > i have a vague rememberance of saying that madhwas > migrated to TN during the > Peshwa's regime to Tanjore side. since then they > have settled there. i do > not know how far this is true. > > If the learned members could exlain, would be > grateful. > Hare Krishna > Rao ALG > > arvachar [pvram] > Friday, May 16, 2003 2:43 AM > > Various groups in > Madhwa community > > > Namaskara, > I would like to know about the various > groups in madhwa > community like ARAVELU, BALAGANADU, > ARAVATH-VAK-KULU etc. > What does it mean ? > is there any differences in customs among these > groups? > What make the madhwas to come to Tamilnadu? ( > according my knowledge > there is no madhwa whose mother tongue is Tamil ) > Invasion or Famine or Flood or ...? > > Regards, > Venkatram > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 Namaskara, This is what I heard about the different groups in TamilNadu. I am not sure how far it is true. In earlier days debates occurred in many parts of the country, as a part of preaching/promoting/establishing the different philosophy like advaita, dvaita, etc,. Many scholars from different philosophy like advaita, dvaita, Buddhism, etc were participated in such discussion/debates/arguments. The deal is that the defeated groups will be converted into the respective philosophy of the winner. Also they will leave the village in the night (may be due to the defeat) and many such families were migrated to the different parts of the country. Arravathu Okkulu, is consisting of 60 such families moved into the other parts of the country. There are different such groups like Aravathu okkulu,Balaganadu,Aravelu,Heggna-koota, etc,. One more important information is that the Managalasutra /ManagalaSara for some of the converted people were wearing the Smartha’s PadDathi types, even after the conversion to dvaita(Madhva). There are few more such differences among the converted peoples, may be Sari wearing type or something like that,.. Regards Krishnaraj --- " Madhavan,G V. Bindu " <madhavgv wrote: > Dear Sri Suresh, > > I read your writing with a lot of interest. Would > appreciate your sharing with us any other little (or > not popoularly) known facts. Any thing you can > share with us regarding " Aravathu Hokkulu, > Balaganadu etc " in this e-mail thread? Also, Sri > Vijyaeendra Theertharu, migration of Madhwas from > Vijayanagara to Kumbakonam? Sri Raghavendra > Theertharu's poorvaashrama grand father etc > migration after fall of Vijayanagara? > > Thanks and namaskaragalu. > > Bindu > > > suresh maruthi > [maruthisuresh] > Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:15 AM > > Cc: algr > Re: various groups in > Madhva community-I > > > Dear All > It is an interesting topic for research, with little > documentation. > 1. The deccan area of maharashtra has always been a > fertile area for Madhva philosophy. There is even a > reason to believe that even Sri padmanabha tirtha > hailed from this region.(he hailed from godavari > region which is not only Andhra as is generally > thought) > Vyasa ramacharya and many other scholars hail from > this area. > > 2. Marathi speaking madhvas hail from Punatambe > (punyastamba pura- sri vidyadheesa thirtha hailed > from > this area near Phaitan- an important centre of > Vaisnavite learning and spirituality in the 16th > century off Aurangabad). They also hail from > Sajjangarh off modern Pune. This is based on certain > linguistic research.I am in touch with a US based > researcher more out of interest. > > 3. Migration of marathi speaking madhvas to > Tamilnadu > is three major reasons: a. meditation, and tapas > (some > families migrated to tamraparni riverside in south > tamilnadu to do gayatri upasana) > > b. Itineracy of Uttaradi matha saints during the > disturbed political conditions in deccan during > Aurangazeb's period. Invariably most marathi > speaking > madhvas migrated alongwith them to Thanjavur. There > are atleast 6 moola brindavans of uttaradi matha > saints of which atleast 3 or belong to the later > mughal period (sathyanatha, sathyabhinava, > sathyavijaya, sathyapriya). > > c. Shivaji's step brother venkaji was based at > thanjavur and had a dispute. To check him, an army > was > sent under the leadership of marathi speaking madhva > brahmin who was later appointed as subedar of > mannargudi. many agraharas were set up in this > period > and lots of marathi madhvas settled in Thanjavur in > various agraharas in cauvery belt (koviladi, > thirukkattupalli, sriramasamudram to name a few-all > fertile places, with ancient vishnu temples). This > sort of major migration continued say till 1715 or > so. > > d. In bits and pieces, this continued till 1857 . > This > is true of even smartha marathi brahmins. Marathi > speaking madhvas had (and have even to this day) > enormous respect for uttaradi matha saints and > contributed immensely to their influence in > Thanjavur-the ruling family was Bhonsle and other > Maratha areas such as Indore, Baroda. > The influence was so high that a smartha marathi > minister in 17th century wrote a prasahasti in > praise > of an uttaradi matha saint.Some of them became > Madhvas > as well. > > A few marathi madhvas are affiliated to Sri > raghavendra matha. They are mostly samavedins or > those > belonging to vishnuvriddha gotra who lived in places > such as Bhuvanagiri in South Arcot district (not far > from Thanjavur) from where Sri Raghavendra hailed. > Some of them came into Madhva fold during Sri > Raghavendra's visit to Satara etc. Sri Sudhindra > thirtha also brought certain marathi brahmins in > Bijapur area into madhva fold. > > A view expressed by some, that kannada speaking > madhvas switched over to marathi for political > benefits in Thanjavur in 17th century is incorrect. > > Why only kannadigas should switch over, why not > telugus or tamil speaking people in this region? > As pointed out earlier, present day southern > maharashtra has always been a fertile area for > madhva > thought from Acharya's days (see Sumadhva Vijaya). > > Absence of similar surnames in present day > Maharashtra > is not a sufficient basis as well. (My grandfather , > father , all my uncles and relatives have " rao " as a > surname. But many of my cousins, my brother and I > have > attached our family name. Does it imply that we are > not connected to the previous generation of > Madhvas!)Change of surnames is not a basis to say > that > Acharya did not have marathi speaking followers. > In fact even the Bhagavata sect in Maharashtra, > Mahanubhava sect have all been influenced by > Acharya's > thoughts > Suresh > > > " Rao ALG " <algr > > RE: Various groups in Madhwa community > > > > Namaskara, > > > > the origin of madhwas in tamilnadu has been a > > unanswered question with me > > for long. if anyone could explain, would be > > grateful. since i am from > > tamilnadu and speak marathi / kannada at home, > many > > used to ask me how you > > came to TN. > > > > i have a vague rememberance of saying that madhwas > > migrated to TN during the > > Peshwa's regime to Tanjore side. since then they > > have settled there. i do > > not know how far this is true. > > > > If the learned members could exlain, would be > > grateful. > > Hare Krishna > > Rao ALG > > > > arvachar [pvram] > > Friday, May 16, 2003 2:43 AM > > > > Various groups in > > Madhwa community > > > > > > Namaskara, > > I would like to know about the > various > > groups in madhwa > > community like ARAVELU, BALAGANADU, > > ARAVATH-VAK-KULU etc. > > What does it mean ? > > is there any differences in customs among these > > groups? > > What make the madhwas to come to Tamilnadu? ( > > according my knowledge > > there is no madhwa whose mother tongue is Tamil > ) > > Invasion or Famine or Flood or ...? > > > > Regards, > > Venkatram > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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