Laura/Conditioning...

[Guest guest]

>L: I'll take you word for it that I misunderstood Krishnamurti.

>Unfortunately I don't have time now to reread those selections,

>and I was relying on my memory of them from a couple of

> months ago.

 

D: Hi Laura. I have no idea what you understand or don't understand.

I have no idea what Krishnamurti was talking about.

How could I possibly know whether you misunderstood him or not?

 

>>D: A rock doesn't think. Does that mean we should try to

>> be rocks?

>

>L: No, it means we should be in the state that many experienced

>meditators call " not thinking. " (An aware not-thinking, not a

>forcibly repressed not-thinking.)

 

D: I'm simply where and who I am. That's enough, thanks.

No need here for experienced or inexperienced meditators defining

what should and shouldn't be " my " state :-)

 

>>D: Let me try this out: " Awareness " isn't thought

>> and doesn't depend on thought. " Awareness " can use thought as

>> appropriate. Thought doesn't need to be stopped because " Awareness "

>> never is defined by thought. " Awareness " can disidentify with

>> thought, and can release the thought-forms that construct beliefs

>> in an " entity " inhabiting the body or a mental space, an " entity "

>> which is supposedly the " one who is aware " . Then, thought becomes

>> a tool (which it is), rather than an ongoing and compulsive

self-process.

>

>L: I agree with this. I would add, however, that generally, the more

aware >I am, the

>fewer thoughts I have.

 

D: How do you tell when you are more or less aware?

How do you tell if you're having a thought?

When exactly does a thought come into being

and when does it leave?

Where exactly is a thought occurring?

 

>L:

>Habitual freedom from compulsive thought and compulsive fantasizing is a

>defining

>characteristic of enlightenment, in my opinion.

 

D: Essentially I agree. However, I do question whether ideas about

enlightenment aren't thoughts similar to other thought, and whether

opinions and concepts about defining characteristics aren't irrelevant

regarding the original nature of awareness. ;-)

-- Love -- Dan