Guest guest Posted February 13, 2000 Report Share Posted February 13, 2000 >Tim: >What you mention below is of course a total and complete misunderstanding >of " I am already enlightened. " Such misunderstandings may or may not arise >(depending on a persons' understanding of what " enlightenment " is), but >don't you think that it's worth the possibility of such misunderstandings >to try and help bring someone to the deep understanding that all seeking >(which is future) is really nothing but avoiding what is ever-presently >Here and Now? D: Wow - what an intriguing question. I can't answer with what would be right for you - only my experience with helping... It seems that what works for me is simply to express what I can of who I am, and work on myself to allow such expression to clarify, vibrate with less self-contructed impedence, and resonate as full as possible with all apparent " others " who are no other than who I am. As I do this, I find that " helping " seems to diminish and dissolve as a motive. Helping seems to imply some kind of imposition, a perception of " I know what is best for you, right for you, etc. -- if you only saw what I see, or thought about this the way I think, etc. " Thus, helping is a projection of the helper, and as the helper " dissolves " there is only " working " -- which is work on oneself. In other words, I am aware as I " help " that I provide nothing to no one, and such " helping " is merely a way to work on " me " , that is " work within awareness by awareness " . ( " Outwardly " , this might have the appearance of one person " helping " another.) The truth, as I see it, is that Aloneness is - there can be no sharing of Aloneness with anyone. That's just the fact, as I experience it. I have experienced resistance to the fullness of Aloneness - and this resistance materializes as wanting to help, make things better, fix something, etc., and sometimes more directly as making things good for me, so I will feel calm and happy. For me, helping has been a means to try to share with another, to avoid through anxiety the awesome fullness of Aloneness. What I mean is, the persistent tendency to avoid the fullness of Aloneness, which resistance materializes as tension, anxiety, or frustration. It appears to me that the " movement of what is " to whatever extent it is " received " undermines the whole basis for any identification with a fixed perceptual reality located in time and space - thus the whole perception of helping around " this one associated with this body will help that one associated with that body " is undermined. This doesn't mean " helping " is impossible - there can be " helping " that is simply the spontaneous movement of " what is " into what is always itself. As I see this, I move from " helping " to " pure simple acceptance/surrender/being " . >I don't know what your opinion on it is, but mine is that it's more than >worth the " risk " of such misunderstandings... for the reason that " seeking >enlightenment " is a futile and ridiculous endeavor likely to result only in >despair. Of course, such despair may itself finally create the >understanding of the futility of the search, but perhaps after years and >years and years wasted, years of suffering trying to " reach the horizon " by >running toward it. > >Someone " seeking enlightenment " with the intent of finding it in the future >would do better dropping the whole idea and indulging their cravings and >desires, as far as I'm concerned. > >Please note that " my teaching " (the heart of it) is to *express* what we >already are through continued sadhana. If I had stopped at " just realize >you're already enlightened, " the whole thing falls apart, and the >misunderstandings you detail below are likely to arise in profusion. But I >also gave an idea of " what to do next, " and the importance of it. D: O.K. Good luck with it! Blessings!! Love, Dan >At 01:21 PM 2/12/2000 -0500, you wrote: >> " Dan Berkow, PhD " <berkowd >> >>> [snip]...In my opinion even though theoretically there >>>is nothing to be done to become enlightened since you are >>>already there, it may take a lot of bumbling about till one >>>comes to this recognition. >>> >>>Love, >>> >>>Victor >> >>D: Indeed! Include under " bumbling around " : >> *taking the idea of " already enlightened " >> as a means to continue the status quo >> of preception, but with a great new idea >> *claiming to be already enlightened but >> treating others as if they are not >> *believing one is already enlightened, >> but caring about maintaining a self-image, >> manipulating others to get things from them, >> being afraid of getting hurt, trying to >> avoid losses, etc., etc. >> >> The words are essentially meaningless, it's >> only lived experiential truth that is reality. >> >> Love, >> Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2000 Report Share Posted February 13, 2000 What a lot of words it takes to explain simplicity... Dan Berkow, PhD wrote: > > " Dan Berkow, PhD " <berkowd > > >Tim: > >What you mention below is of course a total and complete misunderstanding > >of " I am already enlightened. " Such misunderstandings may or may not arise > >(depending on a persons' understanding of what " enlightenment " is), but > >don't you think that it's worth the possibility of such misunderstandings > >to try and help bring someone to the deep understanding that all seeking > >(which is future) is really nothing but avoiding what is ever-presently > >Here and Now? > > D: Wow - what an intriguing question. I can't answer with what would > be right for you - only my experience with helping... > > It seems that what works for me is simply to express what I can > of who I am, and work on myself to allow such expression to > clarify, vibrate with less self-contructed impedence, and resonate > as full as possible with all apparent " others " who are no other > than who I am. As I do this, I find that " helping " seems to diminish > and dissolve as a motive. Helping seems to imply some kind of > imposition, a perception of " I know what is best for you, right > for you, etc. -- if you only saw what I see, or thought about this > the way I think, etc. " Thus, helping is a projection of the helper, > and as the helper " dissolves " there is only " working " -- which > is work on oneself. In other words, I am aware as I " help " that I > provide nothing to no one, and such " helping " is merely a way to > work on " me " , that is " work within awareness by awareness " . > ( " Outwardly " , this might have the appearance of one person > " helping " another.) > > The truth, as I see it, is that Aloneness is - there can be no > sharing of Aloneness with anyone. That's just the fact, as I > experience it. I have experienced resistance to the fullness > of Aloneness - and this resistance materializes as wanting to > help, make things better, fix something, etc., and sometimes more > directly as making things good for me, so I will feel calm and happy. > For me, helping has been a means to try to share with another, > to avoid through anxiety the awesome fullness of Aloneness. > What I mean is, the persistent tendency to avoid the fullness of > Aloneness, which resistance materializes as tension, anxiety, or > frustration. It appears to me that the " movement of what is " > to whatever extent it is " received " undermines the whole basis > for any identification with a fixed perceptual reality located > in time and space - thus the whole perception of helping around > " this one associated with this body will help that one associated > with that body " is undermined. This doesn't mean " helping " is > impossible - there can be " helping " that is simply the spontaneous > movement of " what is " into what is always itself. As I see this, > I move from " helping " to " pure simple acceptance/surrender/being " . > > >I don't know what your opinion on it is, but mine is that it's more than > >worth the " risk " of such misunderstandings... for the reason that " seeking > >enlightenment " is a futile and ridiculous endeavor likely to result only in > >despair. Of course, such despair may itself finally create the > >understanding of the futility of the search, but perhaps after years and > >years and years wasted, years of suffering trying to " reach the horizon " by > >running toward it. > > > >Someone " seeking enlightenment " with the intent of finding it in the future > >would do better dropping the whole idea and indulging their cravings and > >desires, as far as I'm concerned. > > > >Please note that " my teaching " (the heart of it) is to *express* what we > >already are through continued sadhana. If I had stopped at " just realize > >you're already enlightened, " the whole thing falls apart, and the > >misunderstandings you detail below are likely to arise in profusion. But I > >also gave an idea of " what to do next, " and the importance of it. > > D: O.K. Good luck with it! Blessings!! > > Love, > Dan > > >At 01:21 PM 2/12/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >> " Dan Berkow, PhD " <berkowd > >> > >>> [snip]...In my opinion even though theoretically there > >>>is nothing to be done to become enlightened since you are > >>>already there, it may take a lot of bumbling about till one > >>>comes to this recognition. > >>> > >>>Love, > >>> > >>>Victor > >> > >>D: Indeed! Include under " bumbling around " : > >> *taking the idea of " already enlightened " > >> as a means to continue the status quo > >> of preception, but with a great new idea > >> *claiming to be already enlightened but > >> treating others as if they are not > >> *believing one is already enlightened, > >> but caring about maintaining a self-image, > >> manipulating others to get things from them, > >> being afraid of getting hurt, trying to > >> avoid losses, etc., etc. > >> > >> The words are essentially meaningless, it's > >> only lived experiential truth that is reality. > >> > >> Love, > >> Dan > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0 > percent Intro or 9.9 percent Fixed APR, online balance transfers, > Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and > get the credit you deserve. Apply now. Get your NextCard Visa at > <a href= " http://clickme./ad/NextcardCreative3CL " >Click Here</a> > > ------ > > ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST.......... > > Email addresses: > Post message: Realization > Un: Realization- > Our web address: http://www.realization.org > > By sending a message to this list, you are giving > permission to have it reproduced as a letter on > http://www.realization.org > ................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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