Guest guest Posted February 15, 2000 Report Share Posted February 15, 2000 Dear Victor, At 12:10 PM 2/15/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Victor Torrico <vtorrico >Dan, > >Most would feel in the dualistic condition that they are >either dabbling or not-dabbling. Now these are the folks >who cannot understand that no effort is needed or that >nothing must be done but rest in awareness. So even though >what you say below is true how does one reach these folks or >does one just ignore them? Sort of I'll rest in my >awareness and put my blinders on regarding other folks. Or >oh well, eventually they might " get it " . Nothing to be >done. Gotta say that I love and respect Dan, but... The fact is, the majority of people can't/won't/whatever simply " open their eyes and see. " Nondual understanding eludes a large majority of people. So, that leaves it to some people to " point " in the right direction for others. One thing is certain... a person can only help themselves. That remains a fact. I may point to the moon, but if you look at my finger, it won't do anything. If you grab my finger, it won't have any effect. You have to turn your head up and see the moon. And for many, probably most, some sort of spiritual practice is necessary. However, no seeking need be inherent in spiritual practice, as I've amply demonstrated on my website (and as hundreds of others have also amply demonstrated). " Spiritual practices " (Ken Wilber refers to these as " certain special conditions " ) can be utilized. And seeking is not an inherent condition or a necessity in such spiritual practices, nor is the presence of someone " doing " such practices. Zen Buddhism is exemplary of this. Anyone who claims to know Zazen and would call it " seeking " or says there is " somebody doing it " does not know Zazen. Zazen occurs, as an expression of Awareness. Zazen is not even meditation, it is Zazen. My opinion on what you need Victor (and this is just an opinion) is a regular spiritual practice, one that does not promote seeking or " efforting, " but offers a chance at an authentic transformative breakthrough. And something regular. *You* have to decide to stop dabbling, and do something regular (such as meditation), and with sincerity, at least a couple hours per day. Maybe more. Maybe four hours per day. Maybe more. Have you considered looking for a Soto Zen Center somewhere? Something that can get you going on something regular, offer some " external " discipline, until the " inner Guru " is discovered. Just a suggestion. If there's anything that will end " dabbling, " it's Zen Buddhism. Zen is " anti-dabble. " Either you do it with all of your body, heart and mind, or you will be invited to leave. Anyway, my suggestion is to find the " inner Guru " somehow. If you can't, find an " outer Guru. " But if there's a hidden desire to " dabble, " any hidden agendas whatsoever, nothing is going to help. KNOW THYSELF. With Love, Tim ----- Sum Ergo Sum Visit " The Core " Website at http://coresite.cjb.net - Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Tim's other pages are at http://core.vdirect.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2000 Report Share Posted February 15, 2000 Hi again, Tim - usually realized masters do the pointing as they usually can lead others to the end of gthe path they have already walked - and students are always advised to be certain of the credentials of those who who decide to be teachers. I once heard the greatest Dzogchen teacher of the Nyingma lineage say with great conviction that he " knew nothing. " Fortunately, we have lots of books, web pages and so on filled with peoples opinions and what they think they know. as for me - Im really interested in what others practice and the fruits of that practice - although perhaps Im in the wrong chat group. J ---------- >Fs, the majority of people can't/won't/whatever simply " open their > eyes and see. " Nondual understanding eludes a large majority of people. > > So, that leaves it to some people to " point " in the right direction for > others. One thing is certain... a person can only help themselves. That > remains a fact. I may point to the moon, but if you look at my finger, it > won't do anything. If you grab my finger, it won't have any effect. You > have to turn your head up and see the moon. And for many, probably most, > some sort of spiritual practice is necessary. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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