Guest guest Posted February 15, 2000 Report Share Posted February 15, 2000 Dear Joyce, At 01:28 PM 2/15/2000 -0500, you wrote: > " Joyce Short " <insight > >Hi again, Tim - usually realized masters do the pointing as they usually can >lead others to the end of gthe path they have already walked - and students >are always advised to be certain of the credentials of those who who decide >to be teachers. That's good advice, in general. Of course, there's no overflowing surplus of living, well-known " realized masters " right now, especially ones living next door or in the neighborhood. The ones who *are* recognized these days are basically engaged in a popularity contest, a sort of imitation of Hollywood. Recognition seems to depend on quantity of disciples, or number of books sold, and perhaps declaring oneself to be an Avatar or Maitreya (amazing how many of *those* there are). The world is filled with self-declared Jesus Christs - Ananda Mayi, Mother Meera, Meher Baba, Maitreya... the list goes on and on. >I once heard the greatest Dzogchen teacher of the Nyingma >lineage say with great conviction that he " knew nothing. " Gee, really? Pardon the sarcasm, but your addiction to Dzogchen is laughable. As I see it, you have not learned to trust yourself, so you are turned entirely outward, and seek truth not within yourself, but in external teachings, especially in old, dead scriptures from long past. Just the situation as seen from here. There is a living, breathing reality... and it is you. It is not in scriptures or in teachings, it is you. Drop Dzogchen and find the master " within " yourself. That is the only master there is. >as for me - Im really interested in what others practice and the fruits of >that practice - although perhaps Im in the wrong chat group. J Perhaps, because I believe you're really only interested in hearing about things as they relate to Dzogchen. The only truth to be known is in silence, in solitude, in aloneness, in direct " inner " experience. All else is a lie. Zen masters like to say that the Buddha uttered millions of lies... can you believe that? They will also burn a statue of Buddha on a cold night to keep warm. They know they are Buddhas, and the historical Buddha has been dead thousands of years. With Love, Tim ----- Sum Ergo Sum Visit " The Core " Website at http://coresite.cjb.net - Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics. Tim's other pages are at http://core.vdirect.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2000 Report Share Posted February 15, 2000 Dear J, > as for me - Im really interested in what others practice and the fruits of > that practice - although perhaps Im in the wrong chat group. J If you're in the wrong group, then so am I. L - Joyce Short <insight <Realization > Tuesday, February 15, 2000 1:28 PM Re: Victor/Re: no fear, no dabblers > " Joyce Short " <insight > > Hi again, Tim - usually realized masters do the pointing as they usually can > lead others to the end of gthe path they have already walked - and students > are always advised to be certain of the credentials of those who who decide > to be teachers. I once heard the greatest Dzogchen teacher of the Nyingma > lineage say with great conviction that he " knew nothing. " Fortunately, we > have lots of books, web pages and so on filled with peoples opinions and > what they think they know. > > as for me - Im really interested in what others practice and the fruits of > that practice - although perhaps Im in the wrong chat group. J > > ---------- > >Fs, the majority of people can't/won't/whatever simply " open their > > eyes and see. " Nondual understanding eludes a large majority of people. > > > > So, that leaves it to some people to " point " in the right direction for > > others. One thing is certain... a person can only help themselves. That > > remains a fact. I may point to the moon, but if you look at my finger, it > > won't do anything. If you grab my finger, it won't have any effect. You > > have to turn your head up and see the moon. And for many, probably most, > > some sort of spiritual practice is necessary. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2000 Report Share Posted February 15, 2000 Hmmm - well, I asked Tim what his practice was and he went off in a huff - but Im still very interested in what people do as inquiry, what happens, what works what doesnt and what that might mean....there does seem to be an interest in Ramana Maharshi etc. I posted a few things from Buddhism, as that has been my experience and I believe it a better and more practical offering than my own ramblings about " awareness " - sometimes a chat based on great masters is rather intimidating - what is there left to say? J -- > Dear J, > >> as for me - Im really interested in what others practice and the fruits of >> that practice - although perhaps Im in the wrong chat group. J > > If you're in the wrong group, then so am I. > > L > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2000 Report Share Posted February 15, 2000 Dear Joyce, > Hmmm - well, I asked Tim what his practice was and he went off in a huff - Yep. This is the first time I've moderated a list. Should I play the involved mom and try to say something to make everybody feel better? Or just carry on? Well, how about this: Everybody has an ego, so any place people interact, ego stuff is bound to happen. Sometimes it makes people do silly things, embarrassing things. It's an opportunity for us to practice seeing them as something other than their ego activity. I spoke to Tim privately by email and invited him to come back. He said maybe he will eventually. > but Im still very interested in what people do as inquiry, what happens, > what works what doesnt and what that might mean....there does seem to be an > interest in Ramana Maharshi etc. I posted a few things from Buddhism, as > that has been my experience and I believe it a better and more practical > offering than my own ramblings about " awareness " - sometimes a chat based on > great masters is rather intimidating - what is there left to say? I'm with you. I'm also interested in people's practice. In fact, the original idea for this website was to write about, in exactly your words: " what people do as inquiry [and other things], what happens, what works, what doesn't, and what that might mean. " In my case, starting last summer, I tried making self-enquiry my main practice, following Ramana's books. I've been doing it several hours a day intensely (broken up into several sessions)) and trying to continue the whole rest of the day as best I can while engaged in activities. It has taken a long time for me to gain any confidence that I am following the instructions properly. The practice sort of unfolded over the months, going through several stages. I think I'm on the right track with it because I'm getting a more definite understanding of the " last thought, " the I thought. When I hold an awareness of that understanding, the ego sense seems to fade away, just like Ramana says, although not permanently and not completely. Basically, as self-inquiry has unfolded for me, it's a kind of mindfulness meditation. It's quite possible though that I'm doing it all wrong. I find his instructions rather vague. Love, Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2000 Report Share Posted February 15, 2000 I'm new, but I can tell you what usually happens. On some lists there are people who notice when someone is sensitive. This sensitivity is usually caused by the Spiritual prescence within. Anyway, because of this sensitivity, the person is sometimes nipped at politly. It goes on, and on, and no one notices except the sensitive people because everything appears to be going on an even keel. At one point or another finally something gets said something not really that offensive, but racked up to all the other snipes that hurt but wasn't so bad. Unfortunalty the person is already feeling bruised and battered by the previous attempts and speaks out. It is usually embarressing as all get outs. One leaves and hopes never to run into anyone from that list again. Being Sensitive to Spirit makes one extremly sensitive. Just a little knowledge I've picked up here and there. Cassie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2000 Report Share Posted February 16, 2000 Laura Olshansky wrote: > It has taken a long time for me to gain any confidence that I am following the > instructions properly. The practice sort of unfolded over the months, going > through several stages. I think I'm on the right track with it because I'm getting > a more definite understanding of the " last thought, " the I thought. When I > hold an awareness of that understanding, the ego sense seems to fade away, just like > Ramana says, although not permanently and not completely. > > Basically, as self-inquiry has unfolded for me, it's a kind of mindfulness meditation. > > It's quite possible though that I'm doing it all wrong. I find his instructions > rather vague. > > Love, > > Laura > It does not seem wrong Laura. Consciousness scanning itself for itself by itself is the practice. If the mind is still and peaceful, that is good. The form of practice varies from person to person and gradually deepens into silence. Love Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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