Dan/Tim - Reflection

[Guest guest]

Dear Dan,

 

At 02:04 PM 3/8/2000 -0500, you wrote:

> " Dan Berkow, PhD " <berkowd

 

> So I see self-reference as very basic, probably inherent even in cellular

> struture. Not to be done away with, but to be " seen through " ,

> when " seen through " there is clarity, the " emptiness " of

> the self-referencing is clear.

 

I respect your point of view on that. Mine differs somewhat (as does that

of Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ramana Maharshi and others), but mental

agreement/disagreement doesn't amount to a pile of beans here. It's our

commonalities I'm interested in, not our differences.

 

>D: Okay. I'm simply wanting to point out that there is reflection

> and nonreflection. Nonreflected reality has no self-consciousness.

 

Certainly. In fact, one might say it has no consciousness whatsoever. I

like Nisargadatta's distinction between " consciousness " and " awareness "

(awareness being the essence of " The Supreme, " while consciousness is its

reflection - or something like that). Again, mental views on this don't

amount to a pile of beans - the question is, is suffering relieved, is

there peace and bliss, is the fear of death gone?

 

>D: You speak of a something that perceives something else.

> What is the mind perceived by?

 

There's no way to say what the mind is perceived by, as the concept of " the

mind " is simply another idea, another thought (perhaps in the mind?!).

There's no way to verify that such a thing as a mind even exists! :-)

 

Words and ideas are limited here. I'm not even going to attempt an answer.

 

> And what is that something perceived by?

> This infinite regress can only end here,

> with the " pure reflection " in which nonreflected reality

> and reflection occur simultaneously.

> The self-referencing of experience " empties. "

> One can say, " the rain is cold, " at the same time

> one realizes the full emptiness of the statement and experience

> " the rain is cold. "

 

The body certainly experiences rain (and cold), but it's questionable

whether I am a body, and *I* experience rain and cold. When I experience

rain and cold, I suffer. When the body experiences rain or cold, the body

suffers and *I* am untouched, simply observing affectionately whatever

occurs within the sphere of the body/mind.

 

>D: Thank you. And Life is the " no-thing, " the nonplace where my

> words never go :-) My words are unconvincing, as the .01% reveals

> their futility - and I'm happy that it's this way :-)

 

Indeed, words are empty. But it can be very entertaining to attempt to

describe the indescribable :-) (10 whacks from a Zen Roshi).

 

Love Always,

 

Tim

 

-----

" Apart from thoughts, there is no independent entity called

the world. " -- Ramana Maharshi

 

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