Guest guest Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 At 8/15/2001-05:38 PM, you wrote: >By the way, those bhakti states began (I think) as a result >of self-inquiry. I had a super-duper self-inquiry experience >last January, and after that, I couldn't meditate at all for >several months because effort was impossible for a while. >During that period, the bhakti states began spontaneously. > >Lately, though, I've started doing self-inquiry again >very " effortfully. " > >Regards, > >Rob Firstly let me state that I am a nobody and do not want to be anybody. I do not care if anyone respects me or not. I am only writing the following because it might perhaps help someone's understanding. My first and major mystical experience happened unexpectedly, out of the blue, after a period of 25 years of being an agnostic. From when I finished University in 1973 till now I have not believed in any religion or prayed or meditated. This mystical experience happened in January of this year. It happened as I was staring at my computer I think after having read Rumi. I don't know what happened or if it lasted a fraction of a second or a few minutes. I also don't remember what I felt or thought after the experience. But this I remember, I have never in my life felt so intense a bliss or happiness for several days that followed. It also completely changed me in many ways. For example, for about three months the emotion called anger did not exist in my mind or heart! This cost me financially a few times but it was worth it. A few 'after shocks' happened in the following months but now I guess I have out grown all that. [Now it is the difficult uneventful slog!] One of the after shocks was very unusual in that I haven't heard anyone else describe it. However it is the basis of Advaita and other mystical beliefs. [Even though at that time I had not heard of non-duality nor did I understand what I had experienced] I posted that on a couple of spiritual groups. If any one is interested I could dig it up and re post it here. ______________________ With Love, Cyber Dervish ```````````````````````````````````````` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 > One of > the after shocks was very unusual in that I haven't heard anyone else > describe it. However it is the basis of Advaita and other mystical beliefs. > [Even though at that time I had not heard of non-duality nor did I > understand what I had experienced] > I posted that on a couple of spiritual groups. If any one is interested I > could dig it up and re post it here. Yeah, please do. I'd like to read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 At 8/15/2001-07:49 PM, you wrote: > > One of > > the after shocks was very unusual in that I haven't heard anyone else > > describe it. However it is the basis of Advaita and other mystical > beliefs. > > [Even though at that time I had not heard of non-duality nor did I > > understand what I had experienced] > > I posted that on a couple of spiritual groups. If any one is interested I > > could dig it up and re post it here. > >Yeah, please do. I'd like to read it. I will not make any changes. I am posting it as I had posted it at that time. ----------------------- Explain this ! It was a Friday. About 5pm. [last month] I was paying advances to my workers. I had been reading and thinking about God a lot. What happened next did not make sense to me. So I shoved it at the back of my mind. [Only later when I was discussing mystical experiences with another egroup, non-duality salon, that I recalled this incident and understood it]. I have already posted this on the above group and nobody was surprised there. It was as if it was a common experience. I have been reluctant to post this here, however I told myself, why not, it might help someone. So here it is. As I said I was paying my workers. One worker left and another came into my office. I was busy locating his name on the payroll when I noticed a sort of a shadow or an aura surrounding that worker. I felt total, absolute, unconditional Love for that aura! I mean I did not want anything from that worker or his aura, nor did I feel like giving anything to him. I did not feel like hugging him either. It wasn't that kind of love. This love had no attachments. It was pure without any reservations or judgments or bias. [i cannot even say that it was an emotion, yet I know for sure it was Love. It was like I was seeing my soul in a mirror? Anyway words cannot adequately describe it nor memory retain an exact picture] Meanwhile I had continued paying him and getting his signature. This worker left and another came in and I felt the same as before. Luckily that was the last worker. I still do not remember who those workers were. I don't think it would have mattered if my worst enemy had stood there. As there was no degree of love, nor reason for it, it was total. [And I do not know if they noticed anything unusual as I purposely was not staring at them]. [strangely it was as if there was a split and my mind/body was paying the workers and 'I' was experiencing the Love?!] This one is simple: Just a day or so before this my neighbors driver had done some damage to my property. I quickly got out and approached the driver. Then I became 'unstuck' because normally my temper has a short fuse, but here I was trying to find it as if it was lost! All I could do was tell the driver mildly, 'Didn't you see where you were going?' Not surprisingly I had to foot the bill myself. So, any explanations? --------- ______________________ With Love, Cyber Dervish ```````````````````````````````````````` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 Jan Sultan wrote: Dear Jan There are emotions like anger, hate, sad, happy etc. All these are dependent upon time. I want this (in the future) or I have this and have this fear something will happen to it (futur again). This happened to me and I want more of that (desire of past exp.) Also each of these have an opposite, e.g sad-happy and so on. Many times when one of a pair comes along the other shows up soon afterwards, so we go on a slight bouncy yo-yo kind of emotion. There is only one thing which does not have an opposite nor is based on time, that is called bliss (ananda). Unfortunately we cannot go and find it using a set formula (or so I think). But when only Ananda shows up we are in complete love. we love who we are, love whoever there is front of us, and as you rightly put it is not the ordinary stuff. It has to be undergone. When we live in the present, the eternal now as some sages put it, then time may have no meaning and therefore all the opposites may dissolve and ananda may unfold. That sounds great, but does it always happen that way. GOK. But when it does manifest, like in your case, uncalled for it is obviously terrific. Your life should have changed humdrum or otherwise. Hope you see more of Ananda. Raghu ```````````````````````````````````````` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 Hi Jan, This is a beautiful experience and I think you're lucky to get it. > I have already posted this on the above group > and nobody was surprised there. It was as if it > was a common experience. Common among people in that mail group, yes, but among the general public? I think I remember seeing a survey that showed about 40 percent of a broad group (I think it was Americans) experience something like this at least once in their lifetimes. But I suspect your experience was deeper and longer lasting than most. Whether it's common or rare, this experience is very well documented. This is the kind of experience that religions are based on. If you have this experience frequently enough, or continuously enough, people will call you a saint. Thousands of books contain descriptions of this experience. It says a lot about Western organized religion that when this experience occurs, it surprises us! All that happened was that you experienced the Sermon on the Mount for yourself! As you put it, " I felt total, absolute, unconditional Love. " Advaita Vedanta stresses the " same-identity " aspect of the experience, the " nonduality " of it. As you put it, " It was like I was seeing my soul in a mirror. " Each religion picks out different aspects of the experience and emphasizes them in its descriptions. Each religion spends a great deal of energy exhorting people to act as if they are having the experience (Christianity) or to try to have the experience (yoga) but these efforts are only attempts to emulate something that occurs naturally and spontaneously. As it did in your case. Well, not entirely spontaneously. You say: > I had been reading and thinking about God a lot. I seem to recall somebody in an old book saying, " Knock and the door will be opened. Seek and ye shall find. " Maybe there's some truth to those old books? > So, any explanations? There's a simple traditional explanation for this in the Christian tradition. I don't know if it's the best possible explanation but it's got a nice ring to it: You prayed and God answered. When God shows up, some people overlook him because they're expecting to see an old guy with a beard. Actually God is what you experienced. Or what you experienced is the way that human beings experience God. > Strangely it was as if there was a split and my > mind/body was paying the workers and 'I' was > experiencing the Love?! This aspect is very strongly emphasized in Advaita Vedanta. In fact, it's the basis for the main technique of Jnana Yoga which is called viveka (discrimination). The meditator tries to distinguish his awareness from his mind/body. The famous phrase " neti-neti " (not this, not this) is supposed to summarize this method. Like all methods, viveka is just a way to attempt to artifically induce a possible experience that can occur in a variety of ways. You experienced it in another way. > Then I became 'unstuck' because normally my > temper has a short fuse, but here I was trying to > find it as if it was lost! lol. I had an almost identical experience a few years ago. It was a week before Christmas and somebody drove his car into my parked car. A friend and I were sitting in my car. We got out and all I could think was, " I don't want to ruin the Christmas spirit for the other driver's young daughter. " I told the other driver to have a merry Christmas and forget about it. My friend took me aside and said, " What's wrong with you! Why aren't you angry? " He took over the conversation and spoke to the other driver in deep serious manly tones on my behalf and demanded the guy's insurance information. It was very amusing. I never did accept any money for the accident. As it turned out, I never got the car repaired and it was stolen soon afterward. I don't really believe in a benign will of God and yet... and yet... Regards, Rob - " Jan Sultan " <swork <Realization > Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:35 AM Re: Re: Mystical experience > At 8/15/2001-07:49 PM, you wrote: > > > One of > > > the after shocks was very unusual in that I haven't heard anyone else > > > describe it. However it is the basis of Advaita and other mystical > > beliefs. > > > [Even though at that time I had not heard of non-duality nor did I > > > understand what I had experienced] > > > I posted that on a couple of spiritual groups. If any one is interested I > > > could dig it up and re post it here. > > > >Yeah, please do. I'd like to read it. > > I will not make any changes. I am posting it as I had posted it at that time. > ----------------------- > Explain this ! > > It was a Friday. About 5pm. [last month] I was paying advances to my workers. > I had been reading and thinking about God a lot. What happened next did not > make sense to me. So I shoved it at the back of my mind. [Only later when I > was discussing mystical experiences with another egroup, non-duality salon, > that I recalled this incident and understood it]. > > I have already posted this on the above group and nobody was surprised > there. It was as if it was a common experience. I have been reluctant to > post this here, however I told myself, why not, it might help someone. So > here it is. > > As I said I was paying my workers. One worker left and another came into my > office. I was busy locating his name on the payroll when I noticed a sort > of a shadow or an aura surrounding that worker. > I felt total, absolute, unconditional Love for that aura! I mean I did not > want anything from that worker or his aura, nor did I feel like giving > anything to him. I did not feel like hugging him either. It wasn't that > kind of love. This love had no attachments. It was pure without any > reservations or judgments or bias. > [i cannot even say that it was an emotion, yet I know for sure it was Love. > It was like I was seeing my soul in a mirror? Anyway words cannot > adequately describe it nor memory retain an exact picture] > Meanwhile I had continued paying him and getting his signature. This worker > left and another came in and I felt the same as before. > Luckily that was the last worker. I still do not remember who those workers > were. I don't think it would have mattered if my worst enemy had stood > there. As there was no degree of love, nor reason for it, it was total. > [And I do not know if they noticed anything unusual as I purposely was not > staring at them]. [strangely it was as if there was a split and my > mind/body was paying the workers and 'I' was experiencing the Love?!] > > This one is simple: Just a day or so before this my neighbors driver had > done some damage to my property. I quickly got out and approached the > driver. Then I became 'unstuck' because normally my temper has a short > fuse, but here I was trying to find it as if it was lost! All I could do > was tell the driver mildly, 'Didn't you see where you were going?' Not > surprisingly I had to foot the bill myself. > > So, any explanations? > --------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 Thank you for a beautiful answer Rob. ______________________ With Love, Cyber Dervish ```````````````````````````````````````` At 8/16/2001-11:23 PM, Rob Sacks wrote: >Hi Jan, > >This is a beautiful experience and I think you're >lucky to get it. > > > I have already posted this on the above group > > and nobody was surprised there. It was as if it > > was a common experience. > >Common among people in that mail group, yes, >but among the general public? I think I remember >seeing a survey that showed about 40 percent >of a broad group (I think it was Americans) experience >something like this at least once in their lifetimes. But >I suspect your experience was deeper and longer >lasting than most. > >Whether it's common or rare, this experience is very well >documented. This is the kind of experience that religions >are based on. If you have this experience frequently >enough, or continuously enough, people will call >you a saint. Thousands of books contain descriptions >of this experience. > >It says a lot about Western organized religion that >when this experience occurs, it surprises us! All >that happened was that you experienced the Sermon >on the Mount for yourself! As you put it, > " I felt total, absolute, unconditional Love. " > >Advaita Vedanta stresses the " same-identity " aspect of >the experience, the " nonduality " of it. As you put it, > " It was like I was seeing my soul in a mirror. " Each >religion picks out different aspects of the experience >and emphasizes them in its descriptions. > >Each religion spends a great deal of energy exhorting >people to act as if they are having the experience >(Christianity) or to try to have the experience (yoga) >but these efforts are only attempts to emulate something >that occurs naturally and spontaneously. As it did >in your case. > >Well, not entirely spontaneously. You say: > > > I had been reading and thinking about God a lot. > >I seem to recall somebody in an old book saying, > " Knock and the door will be opened. Seek and >ye shall find. " > >Maybe there's some truth to those old books? > > > So, any explanations? > >There's a simple traditional explanation for this >in the Christian tradition. I don't know if it's >the best possible explanation but it's got a nice >ring to it: > >You prayed and God answered. > >When God shows up, some people overlook him >because they're expecting to see an old guy with >a beard. Actually God is what you experienced. >Or what you experienced is the way that human >beings experience God. > > > Strangely it was as if there was a split and my > > mind/body was paying the workers and 'I' was > > experiencing the Love?! > >This aspect is very strongly emphasized in Advaita Vedanta. >In fact, it's the basis for the main technique of Jnana Yoga >which is called viveka (discrimination). The meditator >tries to distinguish his awareness from his mind/body. >The famous phrase " neti-neti " (not this, not this) is >supposed to summarize this method. > >Like all methods, viveka is just a way to attempt to >artifically induce a possible experience that can >occur in a variety of ways. You experienced it in >another way. > > > Then I became 'unstuck' because normally my > > temper has a short fuse, but here I was trying to > > find it as if it was lost! > >lol. I had an almost identical experience a few years ago. >It was a week before Christmas and somebody drove his >car into my parked car. A friend and I were sitting >in my car. We got out and all I could think was, " I don't >want to ruin the Christmas spirit for the other driver's >young daughter. " I told the other driver to have a merry >Christmas and forget about it. My friend took me aside >and said, " What's wrong with you! Why aren't you angry? " >He took over the conversation and spoke to the other >driver in deep serious manly tones on my behalf and >demanded the guy's insurance information. It was very >amusing. I never did accept any money for the accident. > >As it turned out, I never got the car repaired and it was >stolen soon afterward. I don't really believe in a benign >will of God and yet... and yet... > >Regards, > >Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2001 Report Share Posted August 17, 2001 At 8/16/2001-07:35 AM, you wrote: >I felt total, absolute, unconditional Love for that aura! I mean I did not >want anything from that worker or his aura, nor did I feel like giving >anything to him. I did not feel like hugging him either. It wasn't that >kind of love. This love had no attachments. It was pure without any >reservations or judgments or bias. Here's Kabir saying, " in company I have seen the comrade Himself " . I have stilled my restless mind, and my heart is radiant: for in That-ness I have seen beyond That-ness, in company I have seen the Comrade Himself. Living in bondage, I have set myself free: I have broken away from the clutch of all narrowness. Kabir says: " I have attained the unattainable, and my heart is coloured with the colour of love. " - Kabir ______________________ With Love, Cyber Dervish ```````````````````````````````````````` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2001 Report Share Posted August 23, 2001 I may have given a wrong impression when I wrote about my mystical experiences. These had nothing to do with my mind. It was all about my heart. At the time of these experiences although I still was an agnostic I had softened my heart. There was a lot of Love in my heart. One Mystic responsible for this that I can single out was Jalaludin Rumi. At that time I had not yet heard about advaita or non-duality or Ramana or Nisargadatta. [One person that I can single out is my six year daughter ... Love gushes out like Niagara falls when I look at her!-] So it was wrong for me to say that these mystical experiences came out of the blue without any preparation. So, soften your hearts dear friends and see for yourselves the wonders that will enfold! ______________________ With Love, Cyber Dervish ```````````````````````````````````````` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2001 Report Share Posted August 24, 2001 Dear Jan, > These had nothing to do with my mind. > It was all about my heart. At the > time of these experiences although > I still was an agnostic I had softened > my heart. There was a lot of Love in my heart. I guessed this from what you said in the private email you sent me but others may not have been aware. > [One person that I can single out is my > six year daughter ... Love gushes > out like Niagara falls when I look at her!-] Sahaja yoga! Rob - " Jan Sultan " <swork <Realization > Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:07 AM Re: Re: Mystical experience > I may have given a wrong impression when I wrote about my mystical > experiences. > > These had nothing to do with my mind. It was all about my heart. At the > time of these experiences although I still was an agnostic I had softened > my heart. There was a lot of Love in my heart. > > One Mystic responsible for this that I can single out was Jalaludin Rumi. > At that time I had not yet heard about advaita or non-duality or Ramana or > Nisargadatta. > [One person that I can single out is my six year daughter ... Love gushes > out like Niagara falls when I look at her!-] > > So it was wrong for me to say that these mystical experiences came out of > the blue without any preparation. So, soften your hearts dear friends and > see for yourselves the wonders that will enfold! > > ______________________ > With Love, > Cyber Dervish > ```````````````````````````````````````` > > > > ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST.......... > > Email addresses: > Post message: Realization > Un: Realization- > Our web address: http://www.realization.org > > By sending a message to this list, you are giving > permission to have it reproduced as a letter on > http://www.realization.org > ................................................ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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