Non-identification with body

[Guest guest]

Jan,

 

Your comments below make a lot of sense, once the reader adjusts for some

semantic confusion that is not peculiar to you but that permeates

discussions of spirituality. I'll try to clarify.

 

> At 8/15/2001-07:13 PM, Gary Schouborg wrote:

>> It is important not to think every lack of desire is healthy or enlightened.

>> It is important for two reasons. On the one hand, it is no service to those

>> with weak ego development to have them think they are enlightened, when

>> their lack of desire stems from depression or insufficient ability to set

>> goals. On the other hand, it is a disservice to the talented (and to the

>> society that benefits from them) to think that their ambitions are

>> necessarily unenlightened.

>

> Perhaps even worldly success also depends on something other than a strong

> ego, clear goals and strong ambition.

 

Never underestimate the role of pure energy and luck. Perhaps the only

common factor among " successful " people is that they have considerable

energy and have been in the right place at the right time. Some may even

have weak egos (more about that below), but they have enough energy and

charisma that they get things going and others are willing to pick up after

them to make them successful, much like the birds who feed off the shit of

the rhinoceros.

 

> For example, I am physically lazy, I

> have never set clear goals, I have never been ambitious and I think my ego

> was very weak [now it is almost dead].

 

A major source of confusion is equating ego-e (relating to self-evaluation)

with ego-f (relating to function). In psychology, a strong ego (ego-f) means

that you are able to function. You can distinguish between yourself and your

environment, take a modicum of pleasure in your activities, and set

reasonable goals and often achieve them. How clear your own goals are, I

cannot say; but that you set them and achieve them is evident in your emails

and in your business successes. Your almost dead ego refers to something

quite different -- your lack of a tendency to identify your value (and

happiness) with achieving particular desires (ego-e).

 

> Yet, I was always top of my class. I also reached mountain tops ahead of

> all competition. I always swam the furthest in the ocean than anyone else.

> I have succeeded in all my numerous business attempts against very strong

> odds [and against international competition].

 

You obviously are blessed with an abundance of energy. It is impossible to

tell in this email, but this paragraph may be simply relating your

extraordinary successes, in which case your ability to report them without

being boastful shows that your ego-e is truly near to dying. If, on the

other hand, the paragraph is boasting, then your ego-e shows signs of more

life than you may suspect.

>

> So maybe all your western ideas of achievement, of success and of doer-ship

> are wrong? Maybe it is all predetermined, just accept your fate?

 

Part of your fate is whether or not you have a well-developed ego-f, without

which there is unlikely to be sustained achievement ‹ unless, as I mention

above, you are surrounded by others who are willing to pick up after you and

assure that your goals are achieved.

 

> One thing

> I have noticed in my life, when I want something desperately I don't get

> it. When I don't care very much if I succeed at something and somewhere

> inside me I am confident I succeed.

 

Wanting something desperately may be a sign of weak ego-f or strong ego-e or

both. A weak ego-f invests desperately in a particular goal because it does

not have the confidence (which a strong ego-f has) that it can deal with

whatever comes up, win or lose. A strong ego-e tries to shore up its

self-esteem by identifying with certain accomplishments. It therefore wants

them desperately because it thinks that failure means that it (ego-e) is

worthless.

 

I'm not altogether happy with my terminology here, since we generally think

of strength as desirable. But what I'm getting at is that a strong ego-e is

strong in the sense that it is active. It is actually the result of a weak

ego-f. If we cannot function well, then we create a lot of bogus self-esteem

issues for ourselves, focusing on self-worth rather than effectiveness.

Enlightenment (as well as sound philosophical analysis) reveals to us that

no judgment of self-esteem (positive or negative) is grounded in reality or

ultimately pragmatically useful. Therefore, the death of ego-e is a true

blessing.

 

> I suspect it is the same with spiritual progress. [it is the same with

> involuntary body processes like urinating, sleeping, etc. You cannot force

> them, just relax and they happen. How many of us keep magazines in the

> toilet because of this!]

>

> Sorry, sometimes I ramble. I don't know if I make sense above?

> _____________________

> With Love,

> Cyber Dervish

> ````````````````````````````````````````

I find much sense in what you say, with only the qualification about the

semantic confusion that is endemic in discussions of spirituality.

 

Best,

 

Gary

 

Gary Schouborg

Performance Consulting

Walnut Creek, CA

garyscho

 

Publications and professional services:

http://home.att.net/~garyscho