Guest guest Posted August 17, 2001 Report Share Posted August 17, 2001 Realization participants, The literature on enlightenment with which I'm familiar implicitly talks to adults, so that awakening is a matter of re-accessing what was lost as a child or in a previous life. Are any of you familiar with studies on how to raise enlightened children? Is there any record of how the Dalai Llama was raised, for example? Can children be enlightened? Or are they at best raised so they can more likely be enlightened as they approach adulthood? Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2001 Report Share Posted August 17, 2001 Hi Gary, I think I've seen at least one paper on this subject from -- um -- I'm thinking Jack Engler but maybe that's because you mentioned him the other day. I've also seen a few biographies of Tibetan tulkus (reincarnated enlightened lamas) that touch on this. The only one I happen to have here at home is an autobiography called " Born in Tibet " by Chogyam Trungpa. The first time he mentions spiritual practice (I'm looking quickly, might have missed something) is: " At eight years old a child is very sensitive, and it is the time to inculcate ideas which will last him his lifetime, so at the end of this year I went into retreat for a simple form of meditation. This was upon the nyendrup of Manjusri, the Bodhisattva of Wisdom: that is to say, I was instructed to visualize him with his various symbolical attributes and to contemplate his transcendental Wisdom, to repeat his mantras or sonorous emobodiments, and to recite the verses which preceded and followed them. I took a vow that I would live in solitude for three months away from all contacts other than my tutor and my cook attendant; no-one might come to see me. My diet was strictly vegetarian, and I was not allowed to go outside the retreat centre... " (p. 50) I'm quite interested in this subject, so if you find any other references, would you let me know? Rob - " Gary Schouborg " <garyscho " Realization " <Realization > Friday, August 17, 2001 12:39 PM Enlightened children > Realization participants, > > The literature on enlightenment with which I'm familiar implicitly talks to > adults, so that awakening is a matter of re-accessing what was lost as a > child or in a previous life. Are any of you familiar with studies on how to > raise enlightened children? Is there any record of how the Dalai Llama was > raised, for example? Can children be enlightened? Or are they at best raised > so they can more likely be enlightened as they approach adulthood? > > Gary > > > ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST.......... > > Email addresses: > Post message: Realization > Un: Realization- > Our web address: http://www.realization.org > > By sending a message to this list, you are giving > permission to have it reproduced as a letter on > http://www.realization.org > ................................................ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2001 Report Share Posted August 17, 2001 > " At eight years old a child is very sensitive, > and it is the time to inculcate ideas which > will last him his lifetime, so at the end of this > year I went into retreat for a simple form > of meditation. This was upon the nyendrup > of Manjusri, the Bodhisattva of Wisdom: that > is to say, I was instructed to visualize him > with his various symbolical attributes and to > contemplate his transcendental Wisdom, to > repeat his mantras or sonorous emobodiments, > and to recite the verses which preceded and > followed them. I took a vow that I would live > in solitude for three months away from all > contacts other than my tutor and my cook > attendant; no-one might come to see me. My > diet was strictly vegetarian, and I was not > allowed to go outside the retreat centre... " (p. 50) > > I'm quite interested in this subject, so if you > find any other references, would you let me know? > > Rob Not exactly Tom Sawyer, was he? Thanks a lot, Rob. I will certainly keep you advised. I am currently working on an article entitled " Enlightenment in Action: Somatic Feeling and Time " . To put it very roughly, its thesis is that the most fundamental and simplest form of enlightenment is a primitive, subtle, undifferentiated awareness of our body. I have a section " Towards a Developmental Theory of Enlightenment " in which I explore whether children could have a natural awareness of somatic feeling but get cut off from it from being overly socialized. If that could be established, then we could identify the mechanisms of socialization that cut off somatic feeling. One that I'll probably use is comparing a mother telling her son that he is bad vs. that she doesn't like what he did. The former generates all the illusions associated with self-evaluation. The latter is threatening enough, but allows the child to remain aware both of his own feelings and of the consequences of his actions in the eyes of others. Gary Gary Schouborg Performance Consulting Walnut Creek, CA garyscho Publications and professional services: http://home.att.net/~garyscho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 Hi Gary, > Not exactly Tom Sawyer, was he? Well, actually, a page or two earlier, he describes some of his misbehavior and how he was punished: " I never received corporal punishment after Asang Lama left when I was seven years old. When he had thought that it was necessary to admonish me, it was always done with great ceremony. After a foreword such as 'It is like moulding an image; it has to be hammered into shape', he would prostrate himself three times before me, and then administer the chastisement on the appropriate part. " (page 48.) > To put it very roughly, its thesis is > that the most fundamental and simplest form > of enlightenment is a primitive, > subtle, undifferentiated awareness of our body I've often thought, while watching a two-year-old hum happily to himself while pooping in his diaper, that there is something enlightened about it. Cats give me the same feeling when they sit in sphinx position and purr. When you talk of forms of enlightenment, are you thinking in terms of a particular tradition? So far as I know, there isn't any idea of stages or forms of enlightenment in any Hindu tradition, and I'm completely bewildered by the range of ideas on the subject among Buddhists. Regards, Rob Thanks a lot, Rob. I will certainly keep you > advised. I am currently working on an article entitled " Enlightenment in > Action: Somatic Feeling and Time " . To put it very roughly, its thesis is > that the most fundamental and simplest form of enlightenment is a primitive, > subtle, undifferentiated awareness of our body. I have a section " Towards a > Developmental Theory of Enlightenment " in which I explore whether children > could have a natural awareness of somatic feeling but get cut off from it > from being overly socialized. If that could be established, then we could > identify the mechanisms of socialization that cut off somatic feeling. One > that I'll probably use is comparing a mother telling her son that he is bad > vs. that she doesn't like what he did. The former generates all the > illusions associated with self-evaluation. The latter is threatening enough, > but allows the child to remain aware both of his own feelings and of the > consequences of his actions in the eyes of others. > > Gary > > Gary Schouborg > Performance Consulting > Walnut Creek, CA > garyscho > > Publications and professional services: > http://home.att.net/~garyscho > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2001 Report Share Posted August 18, 2001 > When you talk of forms of enlightenment, are you > thinking in terms of a particular tradition? I'm not knowledgeable about traditions, so I'll be interested if my article makes any sense to any Realizer in terms of traditions. It's really an all-american bastardization. I'll let you decide, if you read it, if that's good or bad. My point about form is that enlightenment has two basic stages. First, there is awakening to somatic feeling, our experience of the present. The idea is that feeling has no reference to future or past and so can be experienced only as present. Unlike particular feelings, however, somatic feeling does not come and go -- so it is an experience of the timeless and eternal, if you will, WITHIN the natural world. Usually, we spiritually less gifted awaken to somatic feeling in a relatively simple environment, meditation. The second, full, stage of enlightenment is maintaining our awareness of somatic feeling while engaging in everyday activity. The central problem I address in my article is how we take the enlightenment that we access in meditation and apply it to everyday living. > So far > as I know, there isn't any idea of stages or forms > of enlightenment in any Hindu tradition, and I'm > completely bewildered by the range of ideas on > the subject among Buddhists. Perhaps there is no idea of stages in Hinduism because of an emphasis on spontaneous enlightenment experiences, such as Ramana Maharshi's. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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