Guest guest Posted September 2, 2001 Report Share Posted September 2, 2001 Hi everybody, A recent dialogue else where, which maybe of interest here. Cheers Sandeep ---------- San: > The real question is, does "me-Michelle" have an existential reality, to do something or not to do something?> There is a very simple exercise to arrive at this truth.M: Please explain this exercise.. San: What is the sense of personal identity? What is the sense of the individual labeled "Michelle"? It is nothing but the sense of personal doership that "Michelle" has, isn't it? Michelle thinks she thinks , ergo Michelle IS. Michelle thinks that she is doing a particular action, ergo Michelle IS Michelle believes, has faith in X,Y,Z, ergo Michelle IS. Michelle accepts such and such path is the path to liberation, to enlightenment, ergo Michelle IS. It is this sense of personal doership, the sense of having a choice to think between multiple options, to choose and act between multiple paths, which "births" Michelle, as a individual entity, separate from all other entities, isn't it? The famous and most hilarious statement by Descartes "I think, therefore I am" Examine this sense of personal doership, to explode this sense of personal doership. How? Take 3-5 of the most significant events/actions within your Life, wherein you are fully convinced that they were "your" actions, wherein you believe you were in full control. Unravel each of the event. That is, go to the immediately preceding event/action/thought which took place. And to the immediately preceding to that. And next and next. If you are brutally honest and go sufficiently back, you will arrive, in each and every case, to a "thought" which appeared as if from no where, a non-volitional thought over which you had no control. This is the genesis point for each and every of "your" action. It is this non-volitional thought, which acts as a trigger-mechanism, initiating the whole process, which finally culminates into the "action" under review. Neuro-scientists and behavioral experts, specially people like Dr Benjamin Libet have experimentally validated the process and have showed the time lag of close to half a second, between the occurrence of the non-volitional thought and the "taking delivery", the "taking ownership" whereby that non-volitional thought gets converted into "my" thought. With the "my", the "me" is simultaneously born. At the genesis point, the original non-volitional thought, "triggers" of secondary thoughts(which you notice in the unraveling process), strictly as per the innate conditioning of the body-mind complex. Some of these secondary thoughts are converted into "my" decisions. Some of these "decisions" gets externally actualized into what is assumed to be "my" actions. A series of such "my actions" constitute "my behavior", which in turn defines "me". However, the genesis of all actions, all thoughts, is that one non-volitional thought, which occurred, over which the "me-Michelle" had no control whatsoever. And this is to be verified by personal unraveling each of the actions (at least the most significant ones in your life) to arrive at the apperception that really: No action is "my" action No thought is "my" thought No experience is "my" experience. What is then seen to be happening, is a simple process (the mechanics of which may be very complicated) of an "input" arriving from beyond, onto the mental screen of the body-mind complex, which in turn produces an "output" (in the form of a secondary thought and/or an action) strictly as per the innate conditioning, the innate "programming" of the body-mind complex. Quite akin to the PC in which you are seeing this post. The PC responds to the "inputs" in the form of the taps on the key board and produces an output on the monitor screen strictly as per the loaded programming, (Windows, DOS, Linux or whatever) The PC has no choice, no free will, to deviate away from the innate programming while producing the resultant output. The human biological computer is totally similar to the PC, in this respect. In the case of the human sentient body-mind complex, there is this added dubious quality of a sense of personal doership, which converts the output, into "my" output, with the belief that it is a result of "my" choice, "my" free will. (The PC with no sentience, does not do this conversion) Whereas all that is happening is the innate programming, the innate conditioning at work, producing an output, to an incoming input. What is the programming, the conditioning, in the human body-mind complex? What is the equivalent to the Windows/DOS/Linux in the human body-mind complex? It is the basic DNA-Gene structure which "you" non-volitionally inherited from your parents. Did Michelle have a choice as to which sperm from her father would meet and fall in love with which ovum from your mother and form what type of gene-structure, what is seen to be subsequently "Michelle"? Clearly no. Now there is one crucial difference between the programming of the PC and the "conditioning" in the human body-mind complex. In the case of the PC, once Windows is loaded, it is etched in stone, till you un-install and install something else. In the case of the human body-mind complex, the original DNA-gene structure keeps changing, moment to moment to moment. The original template, the original gene-structure is further impacted by the "inputs" from the external, from your parents, friends, social structure, education, experiences, which occur through the body-mind complex, which in turn creates value structures, beliefs, etc , they all contribute to form what is the "operative- conditioning-in-the moment". The "operative-conditioning-in-the-moment" is thus not etched in stone, it is dynamically changing, altering. For example, in the same situation, you do not react the same way, at different stages of your life, do you? The same aggravation affects you differently at different points of your life, isn't it? It is this "operative-conditioning-in the moment" which is the guiding principle in the creation of the "output" in response to an "input". This is to be personally verified, through the unraveling of each and every action of which you are convinced were "your" actions. Don't accept just because a character named Sandeep or Dr Benjamin Libet, or Lao Tzu, or Buddha or Jesus or Ramana, or Nisargadatta or Ramesh or any of the jokers who say that there is "doing" but there is no doer thereof. Verify for yourself through the unraveling exercise. When this apperception occurs, that the sense of personal doership is a myth, that what is happening is an Impersonal functioning through a body-mind complex, with an innate "conditioning-in-the-moment", this apperception will lead to the realization that in order for a particular action to take place through a psycho-somatic apparatus, an appropriately conditioned body-mind complex is needed. And thus gets manifested. For the action, a particular conditioning is required and thus "such"a human body-mind complex with "such" a conditioning, gets manifested. Hence the premise....... We do not live , we are "lived". Thus the realization that there is no imperfection in Life, in phenomenality. That each manifested "programmed" body-mind complex is perfection itself, whether it is a body-mind complex named "Hitler" or "Ashtavakra". For a particular series of actions, for a particular nature of functioning to take place, a "Hitlerian" conditioning is needed, ergo a "Hitler" is manifested. And like wise for any other example you wish to take. When Michelle, after doing the unraveling exercise, realizes that none of her actions are her actions, none of her thoughts are her thoughts, then the real question is born. Who is "Michelle" then? Does "Michelle" at all exist? And the real journey has started, your head is in the tiger's mouth as prattled by Ramana. The recovery of impersonal identification, from personal identification is close at hand. And remember, whether this too will occur or not, is not upto the individual seeker. Without exposing the myth of personal doership, any doing that you are engaged in, are mere infantile games which may give satisfaction of being on a spiritual path etc, but are mere games. Now, I keep saying about the non-volitionality as far as the individual seeker is concerned. Even this unraveling exercise, whether you will do it, or like "MG" get threatened and block the distribution of this post on the List, if you do it, whether you will do it with sufficient depth and honesty, is also not upto Michelle. LOL. Dobeee Dobeee Doooo Sandeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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