Guest guest Posted September 2, 2001 Report Share Posted September 2, 2001 Rob, > Hi Gary, > >> If there could not be ANY understanding of >> the statement before experiencing its truth, >> then all the correspondence in Realization >> would either be fruitless or preaching to the >> fully realized choir. > > I must hasten to say that I don't think full realization > is required for this experience! Just a little glimpse > or wake-up event will do nicely! > > Of course I concede that some degree of > understanding is conveyed. > > My question, really, is whether that understanding > is misleading in a way that's likely to be counter- > productive. If it were LIKELY to be counter-productive, then we should stop posting emails. Unawakened mind CAN misunderstand any expression of enlightenment, which is why there can be no simple set of instructions that directly awakens us. But when conditions are right, ordinary language can gradually tickle us awake. The task of a science of enlightenment is to try to identify those conditions. For example, some individuals may be so intent on figuring out in their head what enlightenment is that talking to them about it only feeds their mis-focus and is therefore counterproductive, though even there some talk can help clear away obstacles such as gross misunderstandings. On the other hand, what seems to be the case with members of Realization, some individuals may have had some degree of enlightenment experience and are talking about it to get clearer about their experience, to further clear away obstacles to it, or to help it along by expressing it to others. Here, the experience is primary and talking secondary. Under these conditions, talking can be helpful. Gary Gary Schouborg Performance Consulting Walnut Creek, CA garyscho Publications and professional services: http://home.att.net/~garyscho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2001 Report Share Posted September 2, 2001 Hiya Rob/Gary, Some conceptual two- bit...ings...... - Gary Schouborg Realization Cc: Liberation Group () Monday, September 03, 2001 12:03 AM Tickle tickle tickle Rob,> Hi Gary,> >> If there could not be ANY understanding of>> the statement before experiencing its truth,>> then all the correspondence in Realization>> would either be fruitless or preaching to the>> fully realized choir. San: All correspondance(including this post) is prattling of concepts about Truth and thus conceptual and really worth nothing. It is fruitless, as there is no fruit awaiting in the end anyway. And yet it occurs within phenomenality, as a game. As a game, the "prattling" game by a sage to a seeker, is perfect. Appropriate if it gets to occur. As for the fully realized choir, such is indeed the case. But I must pretend to be otherwise, in order to play games, in order for the Lila to appear to be. ----------- > I must hasten to say that I don't think full realization> is required for this experience! Just a little glimpse> or wake-up event will do nicely! San: There is no little realization. Either it is total or not yet occurred. > Of course I concede that some degree of> understanding is conveyed.> > My question, really, is whether that understanding> is misleading in a way that's likely to be counter-> productive. If it were LIKELY to be counter-productive, then we should stop postingemails. San: I submit, there is nothing like "counter-productive" within phenomenlaity. Un-appropriatness just cannot come to "exist", within phenomenality. What is seen as "counter-productive" is exactly the "productive" moment for a particular body-mind organism. ----------- Unawakened mind CAN misunderstand any expression of enlightenment, San: This might well occur, in which case that "misunderstanding" is the understanding of that body-mind complex, appropriate to it, in the moment. Next moment, who knows what movement may take place. ------------ which is why there can be no simple set of instructions that directlyawakens us. San: An "us", a "me" can never awaken, no matter what instructions is followed. And the relevant of an instruction can only be for a "me". ----------- But when conditions are right, ordinary language can graduallytickle us awake.The task of a science of enlightenment is to try to identify thoseconditions. San: That's a good game to play.<s> ------------- For example, some individuals may be so intent on figuring outin their head what enlightenment is that talking to them about it only feedstheir mis-focus and is therefore counterproductive, though even there sometalk can help clear away obstacles such as gross misunderstandings. San: Enlightenment, awakening, apperception can never be understood, for the simple reason that it cannot be objectified, that is made into an object for dissection. The end of the self seeking to understand, is apperception. As an Upanashidic dude sang thousands of years back No answers received All questions dropped. ------------ On theother hand, what seems to be the case with members of Realization, someindividuals may have had some degree of enlightenment experience and aretalking about it to get clearer about their experience, to further clearaway obstacles to it, or to help it along by expressing it to others. Here,the experience is primary and talking secondary. San: I submit, both the experience (both the most mundane ones as well as the most spiritual ones) and the talking of it, are "occurrences" within phenomenality and thus conceptual. ---------- Under these conditions,talking can be helpful. San: To whom? So long there is an individual self which needs help, nothing much has happened. The final and real obstacle to awakening, is the desire and hence the desiring "me" which wants awakening. And yet I do not deny that such games occur within phenomenality. Perfectly appropriate, if they do indeed occur Some conceptual two bits anyway .......... Cheers Sandeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2001 Report Share Posted September 10, 2001 Realization, " Sandeep Chatterjee " <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > There is no little realization. > Either it is total or not yet occurred. ****** !!@#@!! :-) Sandeep! There you are! I been wondering where you were. I was worried, darn you! :-) I'm glad to see you're still around. Very happy. Drop by the " Ranch " sometime, would love to have you. Love you, Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2001 Report Share Posted September 10, 2001 Hi Ranch Lady, Welcome! We are certainly getting some impressive visitors here lately! Love, Rob P.S. I haven't forgotten about the " I don't give a shit story, " just haven't had time to format anything for the website. An enormous burst of web-formatting energy is predicted to descend momentarily and all will be done. - <judirhodes <Realization > Monday, September 10, 2001 12:52 PM Re: Tickle tickle tickle > Realization, " Sandeep Chatterjee " <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > There is no little realization. > > Either it is total or not yet occurred. > > ****** > !!@#@!! :-) > > Sandeep! There you are! I been wondering where you were. I was > worried, darn you! :-) I'm glad to see you're still around. Very > happy. > > Drop by the " Ranch " sometime, would love to have you. > > Love you, > Judi > > ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST.......... > > Email addresses: > Post message: Realization > Un: Realization- > Our web address: http://www.realization.org > > By sending a message to this list, you are giving > permission to have it reproduced as a letter on > http://www.realization.org > ................................................ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2001 Report Share Posted September 10, 2001 Rob Sacks wrote: > > Hi Ranch Lady, > > Welcome! We are certainly getting > some impressive visitors here lately! > > Love, > > Rob > **** Hi Rob, well aren't you sweet. I didn't even realize until this morning that there was this list. I saw it as a " cc " on another post on some other list. And I was glad to see Sandeep here of course. I didnt know what had become of him. I was actually at the point of getting worried. I had been asking around about him and no one had seen him. What's a few more gray hairs at my age? :-) lol I chuckle. :-) I got battle scars up the kazoo! :-) lol Tooo funny! > P.S. I haven't forgotten about the " I don't give > a shit story, " just haven't had time to format > anything for the website. An enormous burst > of web-formatting energy is predicted to > descend momentarily and all will be done. > *** Sure, be my guest and print it. It's a true story. I was in a " mood " that day. :-) If I can help in any way, just let me know. Thanks, -- Happy Days, Judi http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/judi-1.htm TheEndOfTheRopeRanch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2001 Report Share Posted September 10, 2001 Hello Judi, Like a bad coin, you find Sandeep again, eh? An interesting tryst with some major illness, left with quite low energy levels and hence have not come over to the usual playing grounds. Got invited to this List by someone and thought it to take it easy here and make some new friends and foes.<LOL> But then you know what happens. Get into the thick of it and posts fly. At this rate, it would appear am heading for a relapse, but what the hell, so long there is enjoyment, there is Life. And how have you been, Judi? Feeling good to see judirhodes on the PC screen again. Cheers Sandeep - judirhodes Realization Monday, September 10, 2001 10:22 PM Re: Tickle tickle tickle Realization, "Sandeep Chatterjee" <sandeepc@b...> wrote:> There is no little realization.> Either it is total or not yet occurred.******!!@#@!! :-)Sandeep! There you are! I been wondering where you were. I was worried, darn you! :-) I'm glad to see you're still around. Very happy.Drop by the "Ranch" sometime, would love to have you.Love you,Judi..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2001 Report Share Posted September 11, 2001 Sandeep Chatterjee wrote: > > Hello Judi, > > Like a bad coin, you find Sandeep again, eh? > **** hehehe, yep. :-) > An interesting tryst with some major illness, left with quite low > energy levels and hence have not come over to the usual playing > grounds. ***** Sandeep, I am very sad to hear this. I was worried. > Got invited to this List by someone and thought it to take it easy > here and make some new friends and foes.<LOL> **** I got thrown off Harsha's list. :-) And Gene and I went at it tooth and nail and he won't let me post anymore on NDS. :-) All I did was wonder how this person would " witness " to a hot poker up her arse. :-) Everyone got a big laugh of course, except Gene. :-) Go figure?? :-) Needless to say, he stuck his own arse in the wringer on that one. :-) > But then you know what happens. > Get into the thick of it and posts fly. > *** Yep, don't I know? > At this rate, it would appear am heading for a relapse, but what the > hell, so long there is enjoyment, there is Life. > **** What can I do? Anything? How is medical care there? > And how have you been, Judi? > ****** Been very good thank you. Family and kids are fine, the ranch list has been a lot of fun, meeting some very nice folks. Couple long time friends starting to pop thru, very rewarding. Makes me very happy. Makes it all worth it. > Feeling good to see judirhodes on the PC screen again. > **** Aaah, thank you. Drop me a line, would like to hear more. Love you, Judi > Cheers > > Sandeep > > > > - > judirhodes > Realization > Monday, September 10, 2001 10:22 PM > Re: Tickle tickle tickle > > Realization, " Sandeep Chatterjee " > <sandeepc@b...> wrote: > > > There is no little realization. > > Either it is total or not yet occurred. > > ****** > !!@#@!! :-) > > Sandeep! There you are! I been wondering where you were. I > was > worried, darn you! :-) I'm glad to see you're still around. > Very > happy. > > Drop by the " Ranch " sometime, would love to have you. > > Love you, > Judi > > ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST.......... > > Email addresses: > Post message: Realization > Un: Realization- > Our web address: http://www.realization.org > > By sending a message to this list, you are giving > permission to have it reproduced as a letter on > http://www.realization.org > ................................................ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2001 Report Share Posted September 11, 2001 > **** I got thrown off Harsha's list. :-) And Gene and I went at it > tooth and > nail and he won't let me post anymore on NDS. :-) All I did was wonder > how this person would " witness " to a hot poker up her arse. :-) Everyone > got a big laugh of course, except Gene. :-) Go figure?? :-) That's it!!! You're out of here!!!!! -- The Sheriff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2001 Report Share Posted September 11, 2001 P.S. You knew I was joking, right? - " Rob Sacks " <editor <Realization > Tuesday, September 11, 2001 7:09 AM Re: Re: Tickle tickle tickle > > **** I got thrown off Harsha's list. :-) And Gene and I went at it > > tooth and > > nail and he won't let me post anymore on NDS. :-) All I did was wonder > > how this person would " witness " to a hot poker up her arse. :-) Everyone > > got a big laugh of course, except Gene. :-) Go figure?? :-) > > That's it!!! You're out of here!!!!! > > -- The Sheriff ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST.......... > > Email addresses: > Post message: Realization > Un: Realization- > Our web address: http://www.realization.org > > By sending a message to this list, you are giving > permission to have it reproduced as a letter on > http://www.realization.org > ................................................ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.