Guest guest Posted September 14, 2001 Report Share Posted September 14, 2001 Dear Rob, The truth is that it is impossible to step outside of *it*, in order to comment about *it* and say what it is really like (e.g., that it lacks volition, that is includes volition, that it contains body-minds that have certain characteristics, that there are no body-minds in it). But then, its also impossible to say that there are teachings being taught in it, or that there is anyone there or not there to get or not get the teachings. Sorry for wasting your time with these foolish prattlings. Love! in a time when love is under seige ... Love! can never be laid a hand upon -- what is killed is never Love! Love! Dan --- Rob Sacks <editor wrote: > Dear Sandeep, > > Thanks very much for passing this along. I too > am fascinated by the history of the idea that > human beings are machines that make decisions > like computers do, by processing input from our > environment. > > It seems remarkable to me that people were able > to devise this idea more than two thousand years > ago, when machines were far simpler and > computers were beyond imagination. > > Even today, people try to find some alternative. > The Penrose stuff, for example, about quantum > effects in the brain. he wants to find something > non-determined. But quantum effects are > random. Those are the two choices: either our > decisions are determined or random. What else > can they be? As Marvin Minsky famously said, > " Brains are computers made from meat. " > > But I'm not sure that it follows from this, that the > feeling of agonizing over a decision, the feeling > of volition, does not causally affect the actions > eventually taken. Trivially, it can be seen that > the > feeling of volition *does* affect actions taken, > because it makes people toss and turn sleeplessly > at night, etc. > > > Probably the earliest pointing to the fact the > > the human entity is nothing but a conditioned, > > a programmed biological computer, helpless > > but to follow the conditioning-in-the moment. > > Is it really? I would have thought the idea was > mentioned somewhere in the early Upanishads. > > > A " Osama Ben Laden " and a " George Bush " are > > helpless but to enact out as per their innate > > conditioning in the moment, towards the unfolding > > of the Cosmic Dance. > > Helpless but responsive to the turnings of the other > gears. Saying they are responsible is a way of > nudging them with other gears, isn't it? > > Best regards, > > Rob > > > > - > Sandeep Chatterjee > Realization > Friday, September 14, 2001 12:45 AM > Gita > > > Hi, > > The good old Gita.......... > > TEXT 5 > na hi kascit ksanam api > jatu tisthaty akarma-krt > karyate hy avasah karma > sarvah prakrti-jair gunaih > > WORD FOR WORD > na -- nor; hi -- certainly; kascit -- anyone; > ksanam -- a moment; api -- also; jatu -- at any > time; tisthati -- remains; akarma-krt -- without > doing something; karyate -- is forced to do; hi -- > certainly; avasah -- helplessly; karma -- work; > sarvah -- all; prakrti-jaih -- born of the modes of > material nature; gunaih -- by the qualities. > > TRANSLATION > Everyone is forced to act helplessly according to > the qualities he has acquired from the modes of > material nature; therefore no one can refrain from > doing something, not even for a moment > > ---------- > > TEXTS 4-5 > buddhir jnanam asammohah > ksama satyam damah samah > sukham duhkham bhavo 'bhavo > bhayam cabhayam eva ca > > ahimsa samata tustis > tapo danam yaso 'yasah > bhavanti bhava bhutanam > matta eva prthag-vidhah > > WORD FOR WORD > buddhih -- intelligence; jnanam -- knowledge; > asammohah -- freedom from doubt; ksama -- > forgiveness; satyam -- truthfulness; damah -- > control of the senses; samah -- control of the mind; > sukham -- happiness; duhkham -- distress; bhavah -- > birth; abhavah -- death; bhayam -- fear; ca -- also; > abhayam -- fearlessness; eva -- also; ca -- and; > ahimsa -- nonviolence; samata -- equilibrium; tustih > -- satisfaction; tapah -- penance; danam -- charity; > yasah -- fame; ayasah -- infamy; bhavanti -- come > about; bhavah -- natures; bhutanam -- of living > entities; mattah -- from Me; eva -- certainly; > prthak-vidhah -- variously arranged. > > TRANSLATION > Intelligence, knowledge, freedom from doubt and > delusion, forgiveness, truthfulness, control of the > senses, control of the mind, happiness and distress, > birth, death, fear, fearlessness, nonviolence, > equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame > and infamy -- all these various qualities of living > beings are created by Me alone. > > PURPORT > The different qualities of living entities, be > they good or bad, are all created by Krishna. > > > ------------------ > > San: > > Probably the earliest pointing to the fact the the > human entity is nothing but a conditioned, a > programmed biological computer, helpless but to > follow the conditioning-in-the moment. > > A " Osama Ben Laden " and a " George Bush " are > helpless but to enact out as per their innate > conditioning in the moment, towards the unfolding of > the Cosmic Dance. > > > --------- > TEXT 8 > prakrtim svam avastabhya > visrjami punah punah > bhuta-gramam imam krtsnam > avasam prakrter vasat > > WORD FOR WORD > prakrtim -- the material nature; svam -- of My > personal Self; avastabhya -- entering into; visrjami > -- I create; punah punah -- again and again; > bhuta-gramam -- all the cosmic manifestations; imam > -- these; krtsnam -- in total; avasam -- > automatically; prakrteh -- of the force of nature; > vasat -- under obligation. > > TRANSLATION > The whole cosmic order is under Me. Under My will > it is automatically manifested again and again, and > under My will it is annihilated at the end. > > ---------- > > > San: > > There is no individual will in question > whatsoever. > > > > Cheers > > Sandeep > > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews./fc/US/Emergency_Information/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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