Guest guest Posted September 21, 2001 Report Share Posted September 21, 2001 Sandeep, I so enjoy your prattlings and p posts. Thankyou for your participation in my day Trace "You are free- naturally! In a moment of Silence you can taste and recognize yourself- the limitless, boundless being that you are. Everything that arises in you- thoughts, feelings, emotions, body sensations- if met with simple willingness, reveal themselves to be Freedom itself, too." Neelam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2001 Report Share Posted September 21, 2001 Hi Trace, You are welcome. Cheers Sandeep - Trace Thode Realization Saturday, September 22, 2001 03:42 AM RE: Sandeep, I so enjoy your prattlings and p posts. Thankyou for your participation in my day Trace "You are free- naturally! In a moment of Silence you can taste and recognize yourself- the limitless, boundless being that you are. Everything that arises in you- thoughts, feelings, emotions, body sensations- if met with simple willingness, reveal themselves to be Freedom itself, too." Neelam ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2001 Report Share Posted September 29, 2001 Hi Fear is an emotion which is a basic survival instinct. It warns of danger and prevents us from doing stupid things which may endanger our lives. This instinct is there in all living beings. Without which we may have never survived to be writing mails to each other. Sometimes this fear becomes so large that it may incapacitate us. At other times it doesn't seem to bother us at all. Several times in my life I have not been able to get rid of that fear, however hard I tried. Then one day I thought (or maybe read somewhere) why don't I welcome this fear and ask it why it is there and what it has to tell me. The panic subsided and I was at peace and I knew the answer what caused my fear then. After this, whenever I feel fear (which is natural) I don't fight it. The resistance causes stress (atleast to me). I look at is as a friend and ask for lessons! It has helped me a great deal. Bless you Raghu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2001 Report Share Posted December 5, 2001 I love the world, I love the not-world. I love you And I love the not-you. But you, who is in front of me ... My extasy grows with the seconds. You go? Just some more light. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 For a spiritual perspective you may not want to hear: The person you think you are is totally conceptual and imaginary, a fiction created by the mind, having no independent existence or autonomy, no choice of decision or action -- which means that free-will and personal volition are illusory. The abiding sense of personal doership felt in waking consciousness is the Maya (illusion). The only Reality is the subjective Consciousness, the non-dual, unchanging, impersonal, intemporal, formless Awareness underlying thought, which is objectively expressed in the conceptual duality of space/time as the Totality of Creation going on by itself, and which is what you are. Your identification with a single, temporal, finite, objective expression of yourself is the source of your imagined suffering. Enlightenment, or Awakening to your true essential nature, is a spontaneous happening orchestrated in and by Consciousness, which occurs only in accord with the functioning of the entire creation. It cannot be achieved through any single, supposedly causative act by the person you imagine yourself to be. Moreover, this awakening may or may not happen to any particular individual, including the one you mistakenly identify as " yourself. " Persisting in the desire for it to happen is the principal obstruction to it ever happening, and merely invites frustration and despair. Intuitively understanding this with unshakable conviction by itself constitutes Liberation. _______________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 Well-stated, and clear. Thanks for sharing an incisive statement. And, as there is no imaginary being, there is no one to whom an awakening is to happen. Not only cannot someone cause it, someone is not to experience it. It doesn't happen to or in a body-mind being, because the body-mind being is the conceptual fiction you discussed. So is the mind a fiction, so it can't create anything, including a conceptual self. If the sense of doership is from a fictional concept, so is the sense of nondoership, and any sense of being bounded or liberated. If free will is illusory, so is any concept of destiny or causal implacability. Both sides of one coin, dependent on an entity on entities being conceived. A spontaneous awakening orchestrated by totality is still a conceptuality, still the result of a doing by something resulting in a product. There is, in fact, no obstruction whatsoever to it or for it -- and no one who can persist in beliefs that impede it. The symbolic figure of the " awakened individual " is just that -- a symbolic figure. When symbolization is transcended, so is the apparent " awakened individual. " As it is, so it is to be ... Love, Dan Nisargadatta, " Chan Khong " <chan_khong@h...> wrote: > > > For a spiritual perspective you may not want to hear: > > The person you think you are is totally conceptual and imaginary, a fiction > created by the mind, having no independent existence or autonomy, no choice > of decision or action -- which means that free-will and personal volition > are illusory. The abiding sense of personal doership felt in waking > consciousness is the Maya (illusion). > > The only Reality is the subjective Consciousness, the non-dual, unchanging, > impersonal, intemporal, formless Awareness underlying thought, which is > objectively expressed in the conceptual duality of space/time as the > Totality of Creation going on by itself, and which is what you are. Your > identification with a single, temporal, finite, objective expression of > yourself is the source of your imagined suffering. > > Enlightenment, or Awakening to your true essential nature, is a spontaneous > happening orchestrated in and by Consciousness, which occurs only in accord > with the functioning of the entire creation. It cannot be achieved through > any single, supposedly causative act by the person you imagine yourself to > be. Moreover, this awakening may or may not happen to any particular > individual, including the one you mistakenly identify as " yourself. " > Persisting in the desire for it to happen is the principal obstruction to it > ever happening, and merely invites frustration and despair. > > Intuitively understanding this with unshakable conviction by itself > constitutes Liberation. > > > > > _______________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2002 Report Share Posted May 28, 2002 Nisargadatta, " Chan Khong " <chan_khong@h...> wrote: > > > For a spiritual perspective you may not want to hear: > > The person you think you are is totally conceptual and imaginary, a fiction > created by the mind, having no independent existence or autonomy, no choice > of decision or action -- which means that free-will and personal volition > are illusory. The abiding sense of personal doership felt in waking > consciousness is the Maya (illusion). > > The only Reality is the subjective Consciousness, the non-dual, unchanging, > impersonal, intemporal, formless Awareness underlying thought, which is > objectively expressed in the conceptual duality of space/time as the > Totality of Creation going on by itself, and which is what you are. Your > identification with a single, temporal, finite, objective expression of > yourself is the source of your imagined suffering. > > Enlightenment, or Awakening to your true essential nature, is a spontaneous > happening orchestrated in and by Consciousness, which occurs only in accord > with the functioning of the entire creation. It cannot be achieved through > any single, supposedly causative act by the person you imagine yourself to > be. Moreover, this awakening may or may not happen to any particular > individual, including the one you mistakenly identify as " yourself. " > Persisting in the desire for it to happen is the principal obstruction to it > ever happening, and merely invites frustration and despair. > > Intuitively understanding this with unshakable conviction by itself > constitutes Liberation. > ---- Thank you!, I have difficulty reading the question answer format book and find the literature painfully repetitious and diluted, but this clears up a lot. (like zen lit better) I've a friend who admires Nisargadatta and I don't understand why, because in the eighties I realized myself on LSD and so strong was this selfrealization that for me what N said was natural and don't understand the fuss the exercises my friend is doing etc.-- maybee i haven't got a clue <grin> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2002 Report Share Posted May 29, 2002 Beyond all this is enlightenment ----- Anand. --- Chan Khong <chan_khong wrote: > > > For a spiritual perspective you may not want to > hear: > > The person you think you are is totally conceptual > and imaginary, a fiction > created by the mind, having no independent existence > or autonomy, no choice > of decision or action -- which means that free-will > and personal volition > are illusory. The abiding sense of personal doership > felt in waking > consciousness is the Maya (illusion). > > The only Reality is the subjective Consciousness, > the non-dual, unchanging, > impersonal, intemporal, formless Awareness > underlying thought, which is > objectively expressed in the conceptual duality of > space/time as the > Totality of Creation going on by itself, and which > is what you are. Your > identification with a single, temporal, finite, > objective expression of > yourself is the source of your imagined suffering. > > Enlightenment, or Awakening to your true essential > nature, is a spontaneous > happening orchestrated in and by Consciousness, > which occurs only in accord > with the functioning of the entire creation. It > cannot be achieved through > any single, supposedly causative act by the person > you imagine yourself to > be. Moreover, this awakening may or may not happen > to any particular > individual, including the one you mistakenly > identify as " yourself. " > Persisting in the desire for it to happen is the > principal obstruction to it > ever happening, and merely invites frustration and > despair. > > Intuitively understanding this with unshakable > conviction by itself > constitutes Liberation. > > > > > _______________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN > Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 No I , thus no work. That is the Illusion! --- cj <d_agenda2000 wrote: > " I do my Work, all else is Illusion " > Gore > Vidal > ______________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 the body/mind or " I " will not remain Idle. You...Yes You...were forced by the " seat of your pants " to Work or Do. The " I " and the work activity are both Illusions. Yet, this Illusion is the Law of existence. Moreover, there is the Way... waiting for the bombs red glare, d_ Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > No I , thus no work. That is the Illusion! > > > > --- cj <d_agenda2000> wrote: > " I do my > Work, all else is Illusion " > > Gore > > Vidal > > > > ____________________ __ > Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! > visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 >the body/mind or " I " will not remain Idle. You...Yes >You...were >forced by the " seat of your pants " to Work or Do. >The " I " and the work activity are both Illusions. >Yet, this Illusion >is the Law of existence. That's your biggest illusion ! >Moreover, there is the Way... People get so rooted in causality that they cannot accept the proposition that THAT is beyond their pseudo-selves. >waiting for the bombs red glare, d_ Yes indeed , THAt's a lot like a bomb: for your annhilation will be complete , the ego shattered , the myth debunked . Namaste, ----- Anand. ______________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 Nisargadatta, Anand Eswaran <anandesw> wrote: > > > > >the body/mind or " I " will not remain Idle. You...Yes > >You...were > >forced by the " seat of your pants " to Work or Do. > >The " I " and the work activity are both Illusions. > > >Yet, this Illusion >is the Law of existence. > > That's your biggest illusion ! > > > >Moreover, there is the Way... > > > People get so rooted in causality that they cannot > accept the proposition that THAT is beyond their > pseudo-selves. > > > > >waiting for the bombs red glare, > d_ > > > Yes indeed , THAt's a lot like a bomb: for your > annhilation will be complete , the ego shattered , the > myth debunked . > > Namaste, > ----- > Anand. > > " : for your > annhilation will be complete , the ego shattered , the > myth debunked . " a goal herein is implied but perhaps you will conclude that such a " goal(s) " is a concept? For the " time " being, are there three separate goals, or is there one. Will there be " your " annnilation or the ego shattered or the myth debunked? pseudononymously, d_ > > ____________________ __ > Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! > visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2002 Report Share Posted July 5, 2002 > People get so rooted in causality that they cannot > accept the proposition that THAT is beyond their > pseudo-selves. All phenomena are equally causeless, thus only totality is. Even the phenomena of thoughts pertaining to various causes are causeless, and including thoughts about an " I " who causes things or can receive things. > Yes indeed , THAt's a lot like a bomb: for your > annhilation will be complete , the ego shattered , the > myth debunked . The ego is just another phenomenon. Nothing needs to be shattered -- for what will shatter a phenomenon but another phenomenon? When there is dying to any self among particular things, nothing has been destroyed. Yes, it is more like the thorough release of misperception, the center of a fictional belief-system, and related illusions -- as if anything could be held in mind, as if there could be a mind to hold things, as if anything could be kept within or placed without -- the myth that existence and nonexistence could be defined against one another. Namaste, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 >goal herein is implied but perhaps you will conclude >that such >a " goal(s) " is a concept? Ansoluetly !:-) A goal is " implied " to the mind. The fact is : ther are no " implications " : events tranmspire as they do , with every event it's own cause and it's own result. >For the " time " being, are there three separate >goals, or is there >one. Will there be " your " annnilation or the ego >shattered or the >myth debunked? Is it really relevant ? As Jimmy Page would croon " coz you know sometimes words have no meanings " :-) Bowing three times in respect, ---- Anand. ______________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2002 Report Share Posted July 6, 2002 >The ego is just another phenomenon. yes! And the truth is : the Ego will never commit suicide. >Nothing needs to be shattered -- for what > will shatter a phenomenon but another > phenomenon? Hence just see the untrue (in phenomenon) as untrue and all that remains is the truth(whith is noumenon) >When there is dying to any self > among particular things, > nothing has been destroyed. Yes , all that happens is that an apparatus stops functioning, like a watch that stops ticking, or a glass vase that is broken. How could Consciousness ever be mixed mixed up with an apparatus to " create " a " human-being " ! >Yes, it is more like the thorough > release of misperception, the center > of a fictional belief-system, and related >illusions -- Yes and the root of it is the myth of individuality!You are in fcat more than one, you are ALL there IS! > as if anything could be held in mind, > as if there could be a mind to hold things, > as if anything could be kept within or placed >without -- > the myth that existence > and nonexistence could be > defined against one another. Concurring totally, Anand. ______________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Hello folks Do you know if there are any living master in the lineage of N.M.? love, tanmayo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Ramesh S. Balsekar is still in the body. He is the former president of the Bank of India and disciple of Ramana Maharshi who became N.M.’s translator when he retired from the bank. His student and publisher, Wayne Liquorman, are on the web at: http://advaita.org/ Namastè, Davè on 7/7/02 7:45 AM, Tanmayo at tanmo wrote: Hello folks Do you know if there are any living master in the lineage of N.M.? love, tanmayo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Hi Anand -- > yes! And the truth is : the Ego will never commit > suicide. Indeed, the attempt to escape ego, is ego. > Hence just see the untrue (in phenomenon) as untrue > and all that remains is the truth(whith is noumenon) And this is where mind can't go, because what it knows, including that " truth is noumenon, " is phenomenon, as is its own knowing process. > Yes , all that happens is that an apparatus stops > functioning, like a watch that stops ticking, or a > glass vase that is broken. And even that happening itself, the awareness of stopping, is a phenomenon. > How could Consciousness ever be mixed mixed up with > an apparatus to " create " a " human-being " ! Yes, that would be a mix-up indeed! > Yes and the root of it is the myth of > individuality!You are in fcat more than one, you are > ALL there IS! True -- you have no other, nothing outside you, by which you could be defined as an individual -- even the word " all " is far too limiting for you ... Blessed be with namastes of allness, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Dear Tanmayo, According to the Hindu tradition, Nisargadatta was the last guru of his lineage. His guru's name was Sri Siddharameshwar Maharaj of the Navanath Sampradaya sect. http://www.nisargadatta.net/photo2.html It's true that Ramesh Balsekar is Nisargadatta's most famous student and a brilliant master in his own right but he was not initiated into the Navanath branch by Maharaj and technically speaking he is not in the lineage. Although Nisargadatta took the Navanath tradition and its devotional rituals seriously, he didn't encourage his followers to follow his sect. Besides the Advaitian reasons we can imagine, I think it was not practical. The Westerner visitors who had read " I am That " were more interested in the nondual message (jnana yoga) and considering the fact that they could only stay a short time in India, it didn't make any sense for them to learn the devotional (bhakti yoga) rituals. Some of Nisargadatta's students' books: http://www.nisargadatta.net/books.html Hur Nisargadatta, " Tanmayo " <tanmo@o...> wrote: > Hello folks > > Do you know if there are any living master in the lineage of N.M.? > > love, tanmayo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Thank you Phil for welcoming me here.. i have been in other groups, too, and still searching.. Hope to find something here.. i'm not sure what yet, though! i'm a publisher and soon i'll have edited some books of the great masters... one of my very good friends translated into romanian Nisargadatta's " I am That " ... good work! mirela - <Nisargadatta > <Nisargadatta > Tuesday, January 07, 2003 5:00 PM Digest Number 748 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 Bro Pete! Well, I did have a lot to learn. Hence thatRabbit Hole. It was a pretty harrowing experience.I actually hadn't read much Nisargadatta for overten years, but after some rough ride I got out mycopy of 'I Am That' and read it as never before.I began understanding things as I had never understoodthem before. Not that I fully understood them, butI was at least confused on a higher level. I was reading something he said about the 'I Am'.I had nodded my way past those comments a milliontimes before, but this time I stopped and realizedthat I didn't really have a visceral sense of whathe meant, so I really went into it. I really doveinto the moment. My mind was verbally silent. [Nothing unusual aboutthat for me. I've long known that the quieting ofinner dialog is no magical rite of passage to Nirvana.]It was beholding silently within, and on the leftI sensed a subtly festering agitation. It was just energy, and it was kinda of pulsing, as subtle successivewaves. I knew that if I were to take one of those waves I would ride out on some emotional crest fullof content, but I remained in a "fasting state",simply witnessing the succession of pulses. Thenattention shifted to the right and I beheld a similarsuccession of pulses, but of a different quality.They seemed "cooler" and gave the impression of abluish cast. I understood that each of these pulseswas a potential thought, and should I pick one itwould gladly elaborate itself, perhaps endlessly, fractal-like. Attention shifted to the left againand again beheld the stream of pulses there. Attentionshifted to the right and beheld the stream of thought-seeds again. As attention shifted to theleft again, something asked, "Hey, what is it thatis looking here? What is beholding this movementfrom left to right?" Not in so many words of course,but BAM!, when that question hit me I suddenlycame to sense the pure clarity that beholds it allwith indifference. I realized in a flash (and notin words such as these) that that pure simple clearawareness could not care less about whether it waslooking at the left side or the right side, whetherI stayed in "fasting mode" or one of those pulses inflamed into a torrid scenario or thought or emotion.I realized that what I was was not the feelings or the thoughts or any of the seeds for such or evenany source of the streams of seeds for such. And myidentification with all that content dropped away that instant. Feelings and thoughts still come up, and perhapsthey always will. And no problem there. No right,no wrong, no good, no bad. The key for me was torealize that it is all just elevator music. Differentthings are going on, but none of it is the "mainthing". Nothing is. -Bill Juansi Nulo [Juansi2]Tuesday, May 13, 2003 9:02 AMnisar Hi Bill,Thanks for the compliments. I don't want to start a mutual admiration society, but you have come backtransformed. I used to think you had a lot to learn,but now I can tell we're singing from the same page,not that I think I couldn't be taught a thing or two. (((: >Bill:"Just today I saw something on the SufiMystic listabout mantras and was reflecting on how some peopleseem to think there is a magical power in themantra itself and don't get the obvious point thatthe constant repetition serves to tie up the>languaging part of the brain and to minimize themischief it can do. The point you are making is sofundamental, and I have not known how to expressit. I've always been daunted at the notion ofexpressing the tyrrany of words "in words". And yet>you have done just that in this piece. Bravo!" P: Yes, this is exactly right. The goal of mantras,or of anti-concepts concepts it's to put the mind ina straightjacket. And it's hilarious to see how peoplewho understand quite well the concepts of no-self,no-doer, etc. instead of wearing the straightjacket, playdebating soccer with it. >Bill:"Finally, I cannot end without commenting on oneparticular juicy tidbit in your piece. You say: "We must clearly see how the inordinate value placed on words such as pleasure, and fun creates > suffering. ">Perhaps it is just my privae hallucination, but Iexpect that for many who read this it will be verydifficult to truly grasp what you have said. Ithink for many it will be hard to grasp that youare *not* saying that pleasure is dangerous butthat the *word* 'pleasure' is dangerous. There isabsolutely nothing wrong with pleasure, desire,even lust. There is nothing wrong with anythingunder Heaven. It is words that are the manacles ofmisery. But as words also become the spectacles ofperception, it can be difficult to see the sourceof distortion. How does the languaging brain cometo see that *it* is the source of confusion? Howdoes its dominance ever come to be quelled in favorof openness, presence, Light? Hence the need for>mantras in cases I suppose." P: Again, your insight into this is very sharp and revealing. It's theword 'pleasure' which has taken a connotation of duty.People somehow feel obligated to have pleasure. It'sthis sense of obligation, this pursue of fun, which is harmful.Must people have an ambivalence about pleasure, speciallysexual pleasure, which is not only expressed, but broughtabout by the words they use. Why should the phrase 'makelove' be acceptable and the phrase 'fuck you' and insult?So, in our minds, sex could be both an expression of love and an attack.No wonder we're a mess! (: Deep gassho,Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Remarkable clarity in you writing Bill! It is my view that you have outline the very core essence of realization. It seems to illustrate that there are no grey areas or differing experiences, Truth is Truth and whatever peoples surface circumstances surrounding it, the inner reality is universally the same. " fasting state " , " fractal-like " , " none of it is the " main thing " . Nothing is. " It just rings such clarity. > > Bill Rishel [sMTP:plexus] > Wednesday, May 14, 2003 7:38 AM > Nisargadatta > RE: > > Bro Pete! > > Well, I did have a lot to learn. Hence that > Rabbit Hole. It was a pretty harrowing experience. > I actually hadn't read much Nisargadatta for over > ten years, but after some rough ride I got out my > copy of 'I Am That' and read it as never before. > I began understanding things as I had never understood > them before. Not that I fully understood them, but > I was at least confused on a higher level. > > I was reading something he said about the 'I Am'. > I had nodded my way past those comments a million > times before, but this time I stopped and realized > that I didn't really have a visceral sense of what > he meant, so I really went into it. I really dove > into the moment. > > My mind was verbally silent. [Nothing unusual about > that for me. I've long known that the quieting of > inner dialog is no magical rite of passage to Nirvana.] > It was beholding silently within, and on the left > I sensed a subtly festering agitation. It was just > energy, and it was kinda of pulsing, as subtle successive > waves. I knew that if I were to take one of those > waves I would ride out on some emotional crest full > of content, but I remained in a " fasting state " , > simply witnessing the succession of pulses. Then > attention shifted to the right and I beheld a similar > succession of pulses, but of a different quality. > They seemed " cooler " and gave the impression of a > bluish cast. I understood that each of these pulses > was a potential thought, and should I pick one it > would gladly elaborate itself, perhaps endlessly, > fractal-like. Attention shifted to the left again > and again beheld the stream of pulses there. Attention > shifted to the right and beheld the stream of > thought-seeds again. As attention shifted to the > left again, something asked, " Hey, what is it that > is looking here? What is beholding this movement > from left to right? " Not in so many words of course, > but BAM!, when that question hit me I suddenly > came to sense the pure clarity that beholds it all > with indifference. I realized in a flash (and not > in words such as these) that that pure simple clear > awareness could not care less about whether it was > looking at the left side or the right side, whether > I stayed in " fasting mode " or one of those pulses > inflamed into a torrid scenario or thought or emotion. > I realized that what I was was not the feelings or > the thoughts or any of the seeds for such or even > any source of the streams of seeds for such. And my > identification with all that content dropped away > that instant. > > Feelings and thoughts still come up, and perhaps > they always will. And no problem there. No right, > no wrong, no good, no bad. The key for me was to > realize that it is all just elevator music. Different > things are going on, but none of it is the " main > thing " . Nothing is. > > -Bill > > > > Juansi Nulo [Juansi2] > Tuesday, May 13, 2003 9:02 AM > nisar > > > > > Hi Bill, > Thanks for the compliments. I don't want to start a > mutual admiration society, but you have come back > transformed. I used to think you had a lot to learn, > but now I can tell we're singing from the same page, > not that I think> I couldn't be taught a thing or two. (((: > > >Bill: " Just today I saw something on the SufiMystic list > about mantras and was reflecting on how some people > seem to think there is a magical power in the > mantra itself and don't get the obvious point that > the constant repetition serves to tie up the > >languaging part of the brain and to minimize the > mischief it can do. The point you are making is so > fundamental, and I have not known how to express > it. I've always been daunted at the notion of > expressing the tyrrany of words " in words " . And yet > >you have done just that in this piece. Bravo! " > > P: Yes, this is exactly right. The goal of mantras, > or of anti-concepts concepts it's to put the mind in > a straightjacket. And it's hilarious to see how people > who understand quite well the concepts of no-self, > no-doer, etc. instead of wearing the straightjacket, play > debating soccer with it. > > >Bill: " Finally, I cannot end without commenting on one > particular juicy tidbit in your piece. You say: > " We must clearly see how the inordinate value > placed on words such as pleasure, and fun creates > > suffering. " > >Perhaps it is just my privae hallucination, but I > expect that for many who read this it will be very > difficult to truly grasp what you have said. I > think for many it will be hard to grasp that you > are *not* saying that pleasure is dangerous but > that the *word* 'pleasure' is dangerous. There is > absolutely nothing wrong with pleasure, desire, > even lust. There is nothing wrong with anything > under Heaven. It is words that are the manacles of > misery. But as words also become the spectacles of > perception, it can be difficult to see the source > of distortion. How does the languaging brain come > to see that *it* is the source of confusion? How > does its dominance ever come to be quelled in favor > of openness, presence, Light? Hence the need for > >mantras in cases I suppose. " > > P: Again, your insight into this is very sharp and revealing. It's the > word 'pleasure' which has taken a connotation of duty. > People somehow feel obligated to have pleasure. It's > this sense of obligation, this pursue of fun, which is harmful. > Must people have an ambivalence about pleasure, specially > sexual pleasure, which is not only expressed, but brought > about by the words they use. Why should the phrase 'make > love' be acceptable and the phrase 'fuck you' and insult? > So, in our minds, sex could be both an expression of love and an attack. > No wonder we're a mess! (: > > Deep gassho, > Pete > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 Toby, It seems to me indeed that " Truth is Truth " and that ultimately all meet the same Essence (in Truth). But I also remind myself that I am living my own Private Hallucination. I don't believe I really can speak for others, certainly not with authority. But then too, the Muse will sometimes move through me as I write or I speak, Her Wonderous Magic pouring through me as a cascading wave spewing its sparkling treasures on the shore. I guess I'm just God ge-zonked, or Queen of Light and Love ge-zonked. Mindless all this, but joyous wonder. So if my words have some clarity know it is not me but the Sparkling Beyond that pours through me. So let me join you as we lift our cups together in praise to the Muse, whose words ring true to me as well. And thank you so much for highlighting those last words: " none of it is the 'main thing'. Nothing is. " I had forgotten it, but now I recall how as those words " came through " how I was struck by the clear succinctness of it. And thank you for your fresh, bright openness, Toby. Your energy is very uplifting. -Bill Wilson, Toby [toby.wilson] Tuesday, May 13, 2003 7:39 PM Nisargadatta RE: Remarkable clarity in you writing Bill! It is my view that you have outline the very core essence of realization. It seems to illustrate that there are no grey areas or differing experiences, Truth is Truth and whatever peoples surface circumstances surrounding it, the inner reality is universally the same. " fasting state " , " fractal-like " , " none of it is the " main thing " . Nothing is. " It just rings such clarity. > > Bill Rishel [sMTP:plexus] > Wednesday, May 14, 2003 7:38 AM > Nisargadatta > RE: > > Bro Pete! > > Well, I did have a lot to learn. Hence that > Rabbit Hole. It was a pretty harrowing experience. > I actually hadn't read much Nisargadatta for over > ten years, but after some rough ride I got out my > copy of 'I Am That' and read it as never before. > I began understanding things as I had never understood > them before. Not that I fully understood them, but > I was at least confused on a higher level. > > I was reading something he said about the 'I Am'. > I had nodded my way past those comments a million > times before, but this time I stopped and realized > that I didn't really have a visceral sense of what > he meant, so I really went into it. I really dove > into the moment. > > My mind was verbally silent. [Nothing unusual about > that for me. I've long known that the quieting of > inner dialog is no magical rite of passage to Nirvana.] > It was beholding silently within, and on the left > I sensed a subtly festering agitation. It was just > energy, and it was kinda of pulsing, as subtle successive > waves. I knew that if I were to take one of those > waves I would ride out on some emotional crest full > of content, but I remained in a " fasting state " , > simply witnessing the succession of pulses. Then > attention shifted to the right and I beheld a similar > succession of pulses, but of a different quality. > They seemed " cooler " and gave the impression of a > bluish cast. I understood that each of these pulses > was a potential thought, and should I pick one it > would gladly elaborate itself, perhaps endlessly, > fractal-like. Attention shifted to the left again > and again beheld the stream of pulses there. Attention > shifted to the right and beheld the stream of > thought-seeds again. As attention shifted to the > left again, something asked, " Hey, what is it that > is looking here? What is beholding this movement > from left to right? " Not in so many words of course, > but BAM!, when that question hit me I suddenly > came to sense the pure clarity that beholds it all > with indifference. I realized in a flash (and not > in words such as these) that that pure simple clear > awareness could not care less about whether it was > looking at the left side or the right side, whether > I stayed in " fasting mode " or one of those pulses > inflamed into a torrid scenario or thought or emotion. > I realized that what I was was not the feelings or > the thoughts or any of the seeds for such or even > any source of the streams of seeds for such. And my > identification with all that content dropped away > that instant. > > Feelings and thoughts still come up, and perhaps > they always will. And no problem there. No right, > no wrong, no good, no bad. The key for me was to > realize that it is all just elevator music. Different > things are going on, but none of it is the " main > thing " . Nothing is. > > -Bill > > > > Juansi Nulo [Juansi2] > Tuesday, May 13, 2003 9:02 AM > nisar > > > > > Hi Bill, > Thanks for the compliments. I don't want to start a > mutual admiration society, but you have come back > transformed. I used to think you had a lot to learn, > but now I can tell we're singing from the same page, > not that I think> I couldn't be taught a thing or two. (((: > > >Bill: " Just today I saw something on the SufiMystic list > about mantras and was reflecting on how some people > seem to think there is a magical power in the > mantra itself and don't get the obvious point that > the constant repetition serves to tie up the > >languaging part of the brain and to minimize the > mischief it can do. The point you are making is so > fundamental, and I have not known how to express > it. I've always been daunted at the notion of > expressing the tyrrany of words " in words " . And yet > >you have done just that in this piece. Bravo! " > > P: Yes, this is exactly right. The goal of mantras, > or of anti-concepts concepts it's to put the mind in > a straightjacket. And it's hilarious to see how people > who understand quite well the concepts of no-self, > no-doer, etc. instead of wearing the straightjacket, play > debating soccer with it. > > >Bill: " Finally, I cannot end without commenting on one > particular juicy tidbit in your piece. You say: > " We must clearly see how the inordinate value > placed on words such as pleasure, and fun creates > > suffering. " > >Perhaps it is just my privae hallucination, but I > expect that for many who read this it will be very > difficult to truly grasp what you have said. I > think for many it will be hard to grasp that you > are *not* saying that pleasure is dangerous but > that the *word* 'pleasure' is dangerous. There is > absolutely nothing wrong with pleasure, desire, > even lust. There is nothing wrong with anything > under Heaven. It is words that are the manacles of > misery. But as words also become the spectacles of > perception, it can be difficult to see the source > of distortion. How does the languaging brain come > to see that *it* is the source of confusion? How > does its dominance ever come to be quelled in favor > of openness, presence, Light? Hence the need for > >mantras in cases I suppose. " > > P: Again, your insight into this is very sharp and revealing. It's the > word 'pleasure' which has taken a connotation of duty. > People somehow feel obligated to have pleasure. It's > this sense of obligation, this pursue of fun, which is harmful. > Must people have an ambivalence about pleasure, specially > sexual pleasure, which is not only expressed, but brought > about by the words they use. Why should the phrase 'make > love' be acceptable and the phrase 'fuck you' and insult? > So, in our minds, sex could be both an expression of love and an attack. > No wonder we're a mess! (: > > Deep gassho, > Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Hi Era, Yes, thank you. I understand that and as you say, I (everyone) has experienced Now many times in my life. It is all there is. I am referring to the moment that Eckhart Tolles pain body left him. I also had that experience where the " pain body " left, that is as energy it reached a very high level after many years of suffering and burned itself out. Since that evening. my past (?) is very grey as a memory and future does not matter, past and future does not create the anxiety it once did. The pain body left in one moment when my thinking stopped as did Eckharts. My mind separated and I watch how my thoughts pop around in my head and understand being. Not something I had " planned " to have happen that evening... That is what I mean in regards to Just curious in hearing if anyone has had the similar experience. It is of pain energy burning itself inside out, leaving space, in a moment. On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 03:48:52 -0000 " Era " <satkarta7 writes: " encyaustin " <encyaustin@j...> wrote: > I am interested in hearing if anyone has had a similar experience as > described by Eckhart Tolle on pages 2 and 3 of The Power of Now. > Peace. > Ency > Hi Ency, this is a hard question-- but I am sure you experienced the NOW yourself many many times in your life its nothing mystical if you were ever in the *zone* during sports, or were absorbed in sex with a lover mesmerised by a sunrise, or by the wildness of a beast got misty from poetry swept away by the sound of music, or by the sounds of the waves by the shore or looked into a child's eyes just recall these, together with the body sensation and smells and chirps ...and sounds or just BE in the Now its ALL there for ever ---- In the eternal moment, the present moment, there is no " me " and there is no duration - no past, present and future. And when there is no " me " an no sense of duration, all there is is that silence in which conceptualization cannot take place. ***Balsekar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 hi Nancy yes , i had same experience once i was traveeling in train . i hv stone in kidney pain starting unbearable . there was no alternative. so i decided , let face the pain . be ready ready for death . i really obseved the pain with an hr everything disspeard --- Nancy Austin <encyaustin wrote: > Hi Era, > > Yes, thank you. I understand that and as you say, I > (everyone) has > experienced Now many times in my life. It is all > there is. > > I am referring to the moment that Eckhart Tolles > pain body left him. I > also had that experience where the " pain body " left, > that is as energy it > reached a very high level after many years of > suffering and burned itself > out. Since that evening. my past (?) is very grey as > a memory and future > does not matter, past and future does not create the > anxiety it once did. > The pain body left in one moment when my thinking > stopped as did > Eckharts. > My mind separated and I watch how my thoughts pop > around in my head and > understand being. > Not something I had " planned " to have happen that > evening... > That is what I mean in regards to Just curious in > hearing if anyone has > had the similar experience. It is of pain energy > burning itself inside > out, leaving space, in a moment. > > > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 03:48:52 -0000 " Era " > <satkarta7 writes: > " encyaustin " <encyaustin@j...> wrote: > > I am interested in hearing if anyone has had a > similar experience as > > described by Eckhart Tolle on pages 2 and 3 of The > Power of Now. > > Peace. > > Ency > > > > Hi Ency, > > this is a hard question-- > > but I am sure you experienced the NOW > yourself many many times in your life > > its nothing mystical > > if you were ever in the *zone* during > sports, or were absorbed in > sex with a lover > > mesmerised by a sunrise, or by the > wildness of a beast > > got misty from poetry > > swept away by the sound of music, or > > by the sounds of the waves by the shore > > or looked into a child's eyes > > just recall these, together with the > body sensation and smells and chirps > ..and sounds > > or just BE in the Now > > its ALL there for ever > > ---- > > In the eternal moment, the present > moment, there is no " me " and there > is no duration - no past, present and > future. And when there is > no " me " an no sense of duration, all > there is is that silence in which conceptualization > cannot take place. > > ***Balsekar > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch./promos/britneyspears/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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