Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Hi Sandeep -- Enjoyed your comments about sex change operations -- excellent stuff. Culture, history and God are on " my " side in depriving half the human race of the rights to go to school, have a job, speak in public, say " yes " or " no " to actions that affect them ... I do this to them as a humble servant of truth ... And yes, there's lots of fun games from all sides when " your will to power " is evil and " my will to power " is just the expression of utter truth and rationality... Wonderful how the human mind works... But what's unfolding now is utterly inevitable, has no other way to unfold ... Enjoyed what you said about passion, and global interconnectedness, too. You weren't quite correct in saying the U.S. hasn't experienced this kind of violence on its own soil in the past. It experienced far worse violence on its own soil during the Civil War. Only " we " did that to " ourselves " ... Psychologically, there's an added element of " invasiveness " when someone outside of my family, with no warning, and from a family with totally different rules, bombs my house. But the wars " inside " a family, and those coming from " outside " the family, are essentially the same (global) violence, no? And you're right, the global repercussions of what's unfolding now are barely glimpsed by most at this point, most being caught up in short-sighted self-justifications ... But the bottom line of what's unfolding: " Me " obtaining " security " for myself, and those like me -- and control of resources to benefit those who believe like I do, and those who, like " me " , have a special place in " God's heart " (or " in the mass consumer market " - take your pick)? -- Dan NEW from GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities./ps/info1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Hi Dan, - d b Realization Tuesday, October 09, 2001 07:21 PM Re: Non-duality in Islam / Sandeep Hi Sandeep --Enjoyed your comments about sex change operations -- excellent stuff.Culture, history and God are on "my" side in depriving half the human race of the rights to go to school, have a job, speak in public, say "yes" or "no" to actions that affect them ... I do this to them as a humble servant of truth ...And yes, there's lots of fun games from all sides when "your will to power" is evil and "my will to power" is just the expression of utter truth and rationality...Wonderful how the human mind works...But what's unfolding now is utterly inevitable, has no other way to unfold ... San: Absolutely. There was/is no other way it could have enfolded. Enjoyed what you said about passion, and global interconnectedness, too.You weren't quite correct in saying the U.S. hasn't experienced this kind of violence on its own soil in the past. It experienced far worse violence on its own soil during the Civil War. San: Yes I was aware of that. Just was commenting in the last 150 years or so, during which period, the American psyche really got fashioned. Only "we" did that to "ourselves" ... Psychologically, there's an added element of "invasiveness" when someone outside of my family, with no warning, and from a family with totally different rules, bombs my house.But the wars "inside" a family, and those coming from "outside" the family, are essentially the same (global) violence, no? San: Yes. The outer is a reflection of the inner. And you're right, the global repercussions of what's unfolding now are barely glimpsed by most at this point, most being caught up in short-sighted self-justifications ... San: Yes. Noticed Pakistan, is boiling. So is Indonesia, the country with the maximum Muslim population. And remarkably demonstrations in UK and USA against the war. Now that's interesting, I thought the war had an approval rating in the high nineties in the US. What's your reading on the 2 cases of Anthrax poisoning deaths in Florida, Dan? But the bottom line of what's unfolding:"Me" obtaining "security" for myself, and those like me -- and control of resources to benefit those who believe like I do, and those who, like "me", have a special place in "God's heart" (or "in the mass consumer market" - take your pick)? And what is forgotten is that in pulling that blade of grass to hoard up my haystack, the Universe does get shaken, producing what we have seen/are seeing. Cheers Sandeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 > San: > > Yes I was aware of that. > Just was commenting in the last 150 years or so, > during which period, the American psyche really got > fashioned. Dan: Is " fashioned " a polite way of saying, " became complacent, self-satisfied, and used to living large and protected, in a somewhat oblivious style " ? > San: > > Yes. > Noticed Pakistan, is boiling. Dan: Take one pot of boiling Pakistan, add a million refugees and see what happens next to the mixture? > So is Indonesia, the country with the maximum > Muslim population. > And remarkably demonstrations in UK and USA > against the war. Now that's interesting, I thought > the war had an approval rating in the high nineties > in the US. Dan: I'm sure that approval rating is inevitable under the circumstances, and people who don't like the inevitability of war are always around, inevitably, too, and will inevitably protest just about any war that happens, which they get to do here :-) > > What's your reading on the 2 cases of Anthrax > poisoning deaths in Florida, Dan? D: I'm not sure, but I imagine there's a guy somewhere licking a stamp and saying, " that experiment worked pretty well ... " > And what is forgotten is that in pulling that > blade of grass to hoard up my haystack, the Universe > does get shaken, producing what we have seen/are > seeing. D: Sure, not that such forgetting could have happened some other way ... Cheerio, Dan Make a great connection at Personals. http://personals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Hiya Dan, - d b Realization Wednesday, October 10, 2001 01:16 AM Re: Non-duality in Islam / Sandeep > San:> > Yes I was aware of that.> Just was commenting in the last 150 years or so,> during which period, the American psyche really got> fashioned.Dan: Is "fashioned" a polite way of saying, "became complacent, self-satisfied, and used to living large and protected, in a somewhat oblivious style"? San: Yes. A cocoon. Mind you, within the cocoon, tremendous energy, self confidence, "just do it", "can do-gung-ho", which is wonderful to observe, during my visits to the US. As an example, you know in the I.T. sector, in the last 5-8 years there has been an exodus of Indian computer software professionals from India to the US, out of sheer necessity for "bodies" and also the fact that the US companies have to pay peanuts compared to what they would have to pay in recruiting an all-American.(All that equal opportunity, no discrimination etc etc only applicable within the cocoon members) Ergo there has been a mushrooming of Agencies in India, which locate and recruit on behalf of US companies. I use few of them, for my needs and one of them told me last night, that his biggest client in the US, have asked for a written declaration that none of the candidates would be from Afghanistan.Why?Because the US Co was under the impression that Afghanistan was a province of India and the CEO did not want to take any chance whatsoever. > San:> > Yes.> Noticed Pakistan, is boiling.Dan: Take one pot of boiling Pakistan, add a million refugees and see what happens next to the mixture? I anticipate explosion. > So is Indonesia, the country with the maximum> Muslim population.> And remarkably demonstrations in UK and USA> against the war. Now that's interesting, I thought> the war had an approval rating in the high nineties> in the US.Dan: I'm sure that approval rating is inevitable under the circumstances, and people who don't like the inevitability of war are always around, inevitably, too, and will inevitably protest just about any war that happens, which they get to do here :-) Yes. Someone must wonder at the logic of sending a Million dollar Cruise missile to blow up a 5 dollat tent in order to kick some camel's ass. Meanwhile Osama Ben Laden and Omar Abdullah seems to be chewing blades of grass or poppy seeds, well entrenched somewhere and once in a while giving out interviews on the El Jareeza network. > > What's your reading on the 2 cases of Anthrax> poisoning deaths in Florida, Dan?D: I'm not sure, but I imagine there's a guy somewhere licking a stamp and saying, "that experiment worked pretty well ..."> And what is forgotten is that in pulling that> blade of grass to hoard up my haystack, the Universe> does get shaken, producing what we have seen/are> seeing.D: Sure, not that such forgetting could have happened some other way ... Absolutely The probability of the world order remaining in the form it has been, or even remaining at all, being an all time low, how else could such a possibility come to light? Cheers Sandeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2001 Report Share Posted October 10, 2001 Howdy dear friends, Many fascinating things in this thread but the press of time confines me to complacency. > Dan: Is "fashioned" a polite way of saying,> "became complacent, self-satisfied, and used> to living large and protected,> in a somewhat oblivious style"? Our complacency seems to me to be a bit complicated. The most important way it's true is illustrated by the fact that we have been bombing Iraq almost every day for eight -- nine? -- years, but when the WTC was attacked, everyone said "Hey, we're at war now!" From the perspective of the people we've been bombing -- and Al Qaeda considers itself to be among them -- we've been at war for a long time. But on the other hand, there are some ways that we are the opposite of complacent. For example, the degree to which we criticize ourselves for our racism, when we are among the less-racist countries. And the fact that we have maintained enough military power to defend ourselves from any possible threat since World War II. We are the only democracy that has done so. It is interesting that despite all the talk of Colin Powell's wonderful alliance, only three countries are actually preparing to fight in Afghanistan: Britain, Russia, and the U.S. The same three that fought Hitler. > Because the US Co was under the impression that > Afghanistan was a province of India and the CEO > did not want to take any chance whatsoever. If he thinks that today, he's a moron, and not typical of anyone here. But if he thought that before 9/11, so what? Are Indians knowledgeable about the geography of South America? There are 189 nations in the U.N. How many of us can name half of them? The most important open secret about the U.S., it seems to me, is that nearly everyone in the U.S. (close to 90 percent) is either a voluntary immigrant or the child, grandchild, etc. of voluntary immigrants. These immigrants, who put a deep stamp on our culture, deliberatey turned their backs on a piece of the world when they came here (most often crossing the ocean to leave the "Old World" for the "New World".) This is a nation of people who live where they do because of disdain or contempt or disinterest in at least one part of the outside world. > San: > As an example, you know in the I.T. sector, in > the last 5-8 years there has been an exodus > of Indian computer software professionals from > India to the US, out of sheer necessity for "bodies" > and also the fact that the US companies have > to pay peanuts compared to what they would > have to pay in recruiting an all-American. The exodus cannot be explained by the fact that the salaries are peanuts by American standards. The explanation has to be what motivates the people to exit. Surely the exodus is explained by the fact that the salaries are large by Indian standards, or by some other aspect of life in the U.S. that the employees find attractive. > All that equal opportunity, no discrimination > etc etc only applicable within the cocoon > members. If you mean that the salary differential is an example of discrimination, I don't buy it. Markets don't work that way. Or maybe you are thinking of something else. Japanese-Americans have the highest incomes of any ethnic group in the U.S., despite the fact that they have been here, on average, for only three or four generations. (Jewish-Americans are second. British-Americans, who constitute, surprisingly, only about 15 percent of Americans, are way down the list, at about 100 percent of the mean family income: merely average.) Is your criticism not tempered by the fact that we allow a million people a year to join the cocoon, most of them from third-world countries including India? What more can we do? What country does more? This is the only country on earth made almost entirely by immigrants. To attack *this* country for excluding others seems, well, sorry, but it seems hilarious to me. India is still dealing with the inequalities established by the Aryan invasion several thousand years ago. Flag-wavingly, Rob - Sandeep Chatterjee Realization Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:06 PM Re: Re: Non-duality in Islam / Sandeep Hiya Dan, - d b Realization Wednesday, October 10, 2001 01:16 AM Re: Non-duality in Islam / Sandeep > San:> > Yes I was aware of that.> Just was commenting in the last 150 years or so,> during which period, the American psyche really got> fashioned.Dan: Is "fashioned" a polite way of saying, "became complacent, self-satisfied, and used to living large and protected, in a somewhat oblivious style"? San: Yes. A cocoon. Mind you, within the cocoon, tremendous energy, self confidence, "just do it", "can do-gung-ho", which is wonderful to observe, during my visits to the US. As an example, you know in the I.T. sector, in the last 5-8 years there has been an exodus of Indian computer software professionals from India to the US, out of sheer necessity for "bodies" and also the fact that the US companies have to pay peanuts compared to what they would have to pay in recruiting an all-American.(All that equal opportunity, no discrimination etc etc only applicable within the cocoon members) Ergo there has been a mushrooming of Agencies in India, which locate and recruit on behalf of US companies. I use few of them, for my needs and one of them told me last night, that his biggest client in the US, have asked for a written declaration that none of the candidates would be from Afghanistan.Why?Because the US Co was under the impression that Afghanistan was a province of India and the CEO did not want to take any chance whatsoever. > San:> > Yes.> Noticed Pakistan, is boiling.Dan: Take one pot of boiling Pakistan, add a million refugees and see what happens next to the mixture? I anticipate explosion. > So is Indonesia, the country with the maximum> Muslim population.> And remarkably demonstrations in UK and USA> against the war. Now that's interesting, I thought> the war had an approval rating in the high nineties> in the US.Dan: I'm sure that approval rating is inevitable under the circumstances, and people who don't like the inevitability of war are always around, inevitably, too, and will inevitably protest just about any war that happens, which they get to do here :-) Yes. Someone must wonder at the logic of sending a Million dollar Cruise missile to blow up a 5 dollat tent in order to kick some camel's ass. Meanwhile Osama Ben Laden and Omar Abdullah seems to be chewing blades of grass or poppy seeds, well entrenched somewhere and once in a while giving out interviews on the El Jareeza network. > > What's your reading on the 2 cases of Anthrax> poisoning deaths in Florida, Dan?D: I'm not sure, but I imagine there's a guy somewhere licking a stamp and saying, "that experiment worked pretty well ..."> And what is forgotten is that in pulling that> blade of grass to hoard up my haystack, the Universe> does get shaken, producing what we have seen/are> seeing.D: Sure, not that such forgetting could have happened some other way ... Absolutely The probability of the world order remaining in the form it has been, or even remaining at all, being an all time low, how else could such a possibility come to light? Cheers Sandeep..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2001 Report Share Posted October 10, 2001 Hi Rob, First of all Rob, this is no flag versus flag. There is no flag owned at this end. God only knows the amount of hilarity that one can find in India and Indian ethos. Some comments on some of the most interesting issues that you raise..... <SNIP> we are the opposite of complacent. For example, the degree to which we criticize ourselves for our racism, when we are among the less-racist countries. San: That is indeed so, in terms of checks and balances incorporated in the system. No other nation lays so much focus on this vital aspect of humanity. However in reality, what's the score, Rob? And what would you think would be the answer, if I posed the same question to a black, to a Mexican, to a Philipino, to an Arab, in the US? ---------- <SNIP> > Because the US Co was under the impression that > Afghanistan was a province of India and the CEO > did not want to take any chance whatsoever. If he thinks that today, he's a moron, and not typical of anyone here. San: Happened 24 hours back. ---------- But if he thought that before 9/11, so what? Are Indians knowledgeable about the geography of South America? San: LOL. Rob it's not flag versus flag. There are as many idiots in India as that American CEO. ------ There are 189 nations in the U.N. How many of us can name half of them? The most important open secret about the U.S., it seems to me, is that nearly everyone in the U.S. (close to 90 percent) is either a voluntary immigrant or the child, grandchild, etc. of voluntary immigrants. These immigrants, who put a deep stamp on our culture, deliberatey turned their backs on a piece of the world when they came here (most often crossing the ocean to leave the "Old World" for the "New World".) This is a nation of people who live where they do because of disdain or contempt or disinterest in at least one part of the outside world. San: Very interesting Rob and if true, probably explains a lot of things. Ergo, it's all somewhere out there, nothing to do with me or my back-yard, would fit in very well with your premise. Would you characterize that statement as applicable to the 90% Americans, who as you say are either voluntary immigrants or descendants of one? What about the black slaves "shanghaied" from Africa to the USA to reclaim land? What about American-Jews and their position opposite Israel? > San: > As an example, you know in the I.T. sector, in > the last 5-8 years there has been an exodus > of Indian computer software professionals from > India to the US, out of sheer necessity for "bodies" > and also the fact that the US companies have > to pay peanuts compared to what they would > have to pay in recruiting an all-American. The exodus cannot be explained by the fact that the salaries are peanuts by American standards. The explanation has to be what motivates the people to exit. Surely the exodus is explained by the fact that the salaries are large by Indian standards, or by some other aspect of life in the U.S. that the employees find attractive. San: Oh indeed so. American peanuts are still peanuts in the palm. Let me confirm upfront, the US is the engine of the global commerce and economic prosperity. And thus all roads lead to those shores. No doubt about that. But I think, if I recall correctly we were talking about self -interests driving values and outlook for global perspectives or something of this nature. > All that equal opportunity, no discrimination > etc etc only applicable within the cocoon > members. If you mean that the salary differential is an example of discrimination, I don't buy it. Markets don't work that way. San: You are correct. In an open market with no barriers to entry or exit, such strategies like salary differential will never work. The guy/gal will simply leave for greener pastures. But as you know Rob, there is nothing like open markets, anywhere. Neither in the US, nor anywhere else. In the case of the I.T. sector, the Indian software engineer is totally tied up through the H1B Visa which is employer specific, for the tenure. If he quits, to avoid being jailed as illegal immigrant, he has to go back to the country of origin and then apply again. ----- Or maybe you are thinking of something else. Japanese-Americans have the highest incomes of any ethnic group in the U.S., despite the fact that they have been here, on average, for only three or four generations. (Jewish-Americans are second. British-Americans, who constitute, surprisingly, only about 15 percent of Americans, are way down the list, at about 100 percent of the mean family income: merely average.) San: Ahaa, you are talking about immigrants who then go about to become American citizens. No, I was not meaning that. Though I remember an incident of a Chinese- American wanting to marry an all-white American beauty. The mother says' Mr Lee, you might be an American citizen, but you are not American.Have some tea.It's pure Cantonese." LOL. ----- Is your criticism not tempered by the fact that we allow a million people a year to join the cocoon, most of them from third-world countries including India? What more can we do? What country does more? San: Rob, again, I hope you have not felt that I have degraded the flag. That was not at all my intention. I have quite forgotten what was the essence of this thread but I have a feeling it was to explore the root cause of why is there so much hatred for the US in parts of the globe, the hatred deep enough for 11th Sept to happen. It seems to me, that if America does not understand this root, whatever it does in addressing the issue, by whatever means, will be futile and a great nation will remain bewildered as to what hit them and I am not speaking just of 11th Sept. ---------- This is the only country on earth made almost entirely by immigrants. To attack *this* country for excluding others seems, well, sorry, but it seems hilarious to me. San: Interested to see how blocking anybody else from entering the home, whose original occupant, I have kicked to the backyard garage, gets justified. No doubt the justification will be hilarious Rob.<s> ----------- India is still dealing with the inequalities established by the Aryan invasion several thousand years ago. San: Oh absolutely. No doubt whatsoever in that. And a divine right is invoked while perpetuating the inequality, in these parts. Flag-wavingly, San: Don't, for there is really no opposing breeze, Rob <s> Cheers Sandeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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