The Sober Tongue of a Drunken Lover

[Guest guest]

Judi wrote:

 

> **** Yes, it's silly isn't it? Why do think they all run for the hills when I

> come around? :-) Like my friend Michael Read said, I couldn't last two posts

> on some of those lists before getting kicked off. :-) And not just me, anyone

> that calls them on their game they're going to eventually kick off, because

> they can't stand up to it. The truth is too revealing.

>

Communication on the web is difficult. First, if you are addressing a single

person, like I am doing here, you don't have all the nonverbal cues you'd

have face to face to sense where the other is coming from. Second, you often

don't know the person well enough to know what s/he can take. Third, you are

also addressing an audience, many of whom you don't know at all. Under those

circumstances, you might reasonably make general comments that some run from

because your comments are stronger drink than they can handle. However, if

you find people you know face to face running from you, may I respectfully

suggest that your communication is inept? The aim of communication is to

enlighten, not to scare. More below.

 

> Why do think Sandeep gets kicked off lists all the time too? :-) People can't

> stand up to it. It's not really that they can't , but they refuse.

>

How do you tell the difference between being unable to do something and

refusing to do it? I believe we often have our own agenda when we accuse

someone of refusing to do something " of their own free will " . Then we can

blame them for behaving in ways we don't like. We can't blame them if we

think they couldn't do it. I don't find it intelligible to say that someone

could be open but refuses to be, could be honest but refuses to be. When I

am closed and dishonest, it is because I am scared and unable to overcome my

fears. Or because I have complicated habits that I am unable immediately to

unravel. I am playing no game, at least no vicious one that I am free to

drop at the moment. Compassion responds by neither indulging my

defensiveness nor blaming it.

 

> They're running their own little *agenda* in other words of trying to put one

> over on someone. That's all they're doing. A childish demand for attention is

> all. Some people just never grow up. They may appear to be more

> " sophisticated " about it, but underneath it's the same childish game. They

> think they're being oh so clever. :-) But what they lack, you see, is humour,

> the ability to get down and laugh at themselves. And it's a sad thing really,

> people that refuse to laugh at themselves. That's what wars are all about.

> People with their own stubborn agendas.

>

I find this partly insightful, but also harsh. The full truth, in my

experience, is never harsh though it can be ruthless in refusing to indulge

the " games " . I don't find any compassion in your remarks here, Judi. I don't

believe enlightenment is " beyond compassion " . Insight without compassion is

at best an analgesic, not yet enlightenment.

 

>> Enough for now, I got to scoot. How's weather in Walnut Creek? I hear you

>> guys have had some pretty good rains up there? How's the creeks holding?

>>

Overcast and dreary today. We had a nice rain a couple days ago, just enough

to irrigate, not enough to threaten any flooding. Thanks for asking. How are

things in Las Vegas?

 

Best wishes,

 

Gary

[Guest guest]

Realization, judirhodes@e... wrote:

> Realization, " Carol Philo " <cphilo@k...> wrote:

> > What I think is going on is that most people (not exclusively

women)

> want to

> > feel the warm fuzzies and you, Judi, give them prickles.

> > The prickles are the obverse side of the warm fuzzies, but some

> people are

> > not yet that far along to realize that thorns and fluffies are the

> same

> > thing.

> > Every listserve needs a gadfly and you do an admirable job. Your

> humor is

> > not universal, but it is your humor, and valuable.

> > Truth is a rare commodity, but supply still exceeds demand.

> > Gelf

>

> ****** Truth will never be popular. Duh? :-)

>

> Judi

 

****** If truth were an easy pill to swallow, nearly everybody in the

world would be self realized. But that has never been the case

throughout all of history, and I don't see that changing in the

any near future. It's an extreme rarity, an " oddity " . I've heard the

figure about 2,000 realizers in the world right now. Out of about 6 or

so billion, what the are odds? You do the math.

 

Judi

[Guest guest]

Realization, Gary Schouborg <garyscho@a...> wrote:

> Judi wrote:

>

> > **** Yes, it's silly isn't it? Why do think they all run for the

hills when I

> > come around? :-) Like my friend Michael Read said, I couldn't last

two posts

> > on some of those lists before getting kicked off. :-) And not just

me, anyone

> > that calls them on their game they're going to eventually kick

off, because

> > they can't stand up to it. The truth is too revealing.

> >

> Communication on the web is difficult. First, if you are addressing

a single

> person, like I am doing here, you don't have all the nonverbal cues

you'd

> have face to face to sense where the other is coming from. Second,

you often

> don't know the person well enough to know what s/he can take. Third,

you are

> also addressing an audience, many of whom you don't know at all.

Under those

> circumstances, you might reasonably make general comments that some

run from

> because your comments are stronger drink than they can handle.

However, if

> you find people you know face to face running from you, may I

respectfully

> suggest that your communication is inept? The aim of communication

is to

> enlighten, not to scare. More below.

>

***** Yes, well it's a matter of discrimination. I'm obviously not

going to open my mouth and try to engage someone with the mentality

of 12 year old or someone who is retarded. Of course not.

For example, I don't go down to the local xtian church tell them how

ridiculous they are. And as far as people running from me face to

face, yes it has happened. I'll give you an example. This person came

to see me for enlightentment. And I said well, I have nothing to give

you. :-) And she got beet red furious, if looks could kill and said,

what do you mean? And I said, exactly that, I have nothing to give

you. And she stormed off. You see, she came to get " satisfied " but I

gave her the truth instead, I threw it back in her face. But she

didn't want the *that*, :-) she wanted " enlightenment " , she didn't

want the truth. :-) But, you see I gave her the whole thing, which is

everything I have, which is " nothing " . :-) And to this day, she is

still running around from teacher to teacher, and paying good money no

doubt too, to get enlightened. :-) Gee, I wonder what they're giving

her? :-) All sorts of stuff I'm sure. :-)

 

I'll finish the rest of your post later, dinner calls.

 

Judi

[Guest guest]

Realization, Gary Schouborg <garyscho@a...> wrote:

>

> How do you tell the difference between being unable to do something

>and refusing to do it?

 

**** If they were " unable " , there would be no reaction either way in

the first place. It would be water off a ducks back. But when it hits

the target, and there's reaction, it shows they are indeed " able " .

They just don't *want* to. :-) People say they are seekers of truth,

but they really aren't. It's the last thing they want.

 

 

>I believe we often have our own agenda when we accuse

> someone of refusing to do something " of their own free will " . Then

we can

> blame them for behaving in ways we don't like. We can't blame them

if we

> think they couldn't do it. I don't find it intelligible to say that

someone

> could be open but refuses to be, could be honest but refuses to be.

When I

> am closed and dishonest, it is because I am scared and unable to

overcome my

> fears.

 

**** Well it comes down to whether you're seeking the truth or not.

If you're simply seeking the truth, where is the fear? It's your will

over your fears. Your fear is wanting it to turn out a certain way

or be a certain way. Seeking the truth is taking a walk on wild side.

:-)

 

>Or because I have complicated habits that I am unable

immediately to

> unravel. I am playing no game, at least no vicious one that I am

free to

> drop at the moment. Compassion responds by neither indulging my

> defensiveness nor blaming it.

>

***** Truth is always spontaneous. It's immediate. Like the punchline

of a joke. Sure it may " pinch " , but it's still the truth, nonetheless.

You can pout about ir and mull it over it all you want, but it doesn't

change the fact, if you see what I mean? The horse is already out of

the barn.

 

 

 

> > They're running their own little *agenda* in other words of trying

to put one

> > over on someone. That's all they're doing. A childish demand for

attention is

> > all. Some people just never grow up. They may appear to be more

> > " sophisticated " about it, but underneath it's the same childish

game. They

> > think they're being oh so clever. :-) But what they lack, you see,

is humour,

> > the ability to get down and laugh at themselves. And it's a sad

thing really,

> > people that refuse to laugh at themselves. That's what wars are

all about.

> > People with their own stubborn agendas.

> >

 

> I find this partly insightful, but also harsh. The full truth, in my

> experience, is never harsh though it can be ruthless in refusing to

indulge

> the " games " . I don't find any compassion in your remarks here, Judi.

I don't

> believe enlightenment is " beyond compassion " . Insight without

compassion is

> at best an analgesic, not yet enlightenment.

>

***** That is my compassion if you would but see it. You may not like

it, but that doesn't make it any less compassionate. Do you see what I

mean?

 

 

> >> Enough for now, I got to scoot. How's weather in Walnut Creek? I

hear you

> >> guys have had some pretty good rains up there? How's the creeks

holding?

> >>

> Overcast and dreary today. We had a nice rain a couple days ago,

just enough

> to irrigate, not enough to threaten any flooding. Thanks for asking.

How are

> things in Las Vegas?

>

***** Cooling down now. Nice weather. The heat is finally over!

 

Judi