Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 Realization , Dennis Trainor <dent16353> wrote: > Well Dan, > This has been real, and this has been nice, but > this hasn't been real nice. Let's do it again real > soon. Dennis Dennis -- This hasn't been real, this hasn't been nice, but it's been real nice. Let's do reality soon. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 This endless attempt to end suffering is the ego. This act of trying to escape is the thing from which we are trying to escape. What really is so remarkable about this process coming into view? Hello Rob you say: This endless attempt to end suffering is the ego. Alan: AND SO? Trying to end the ego is trying to put an end to something. The whole idea is to get to know ourselves YES! One 'I' or sense of "I" pops up and another comes up later.>We have all sorts of self's! The program is about KNOWING THYSELF..On a practical everyday level its about learning to become less emotionaly reactive,Less lethargic and more creative with general appreciation for just what is. Basiclly true spirituality is embracing all of the 'I's or sense of self's that come floating by in the awareness.NO? Remember the book "Wisdom of no Escape" by Pema Chodrin? Its about getting tom know ourselves just as we are. I don’t have too much time to spend getting into a bunch of intellectual mind games right now.That can be fun and certainly insightful at times though and hope you who partake have fun.Certainly there are greater minds than mine.I'd just like to say that for those interested in something more than word games about I's and self and no self etc that once we pass through these waters about all we want to do is practice being culpable , responsible and just helpful and that’s not to say that a lot of what goes on here or other nondual type lists isn’t but it is as One person said (Gurdjieff for that matter) ' you can build a base or a higher being body from a quite dark place or one that is of light.'Some of us need that sort of reminder periodically..I know I do. Any of you catch the issue of 'What is Enlightenment" in the Transformation issue this last quarter with Andrew Cohen and Ken Wilber.namely the Article titled '' Boomeritis"? Check into it if you haven't. It may prove insightful for some and appreciated too. Hey take care folks! Including the friends here from the nondualitysalon as well. Alan - Rob Sacks Realization Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:09 AM Re: Re: speak Dear Alan, > yeah well from some extreme high octane non dual > existential perspectives perhaps but I have my doubt > that there are those who really see this Big Haha, I like the phrase "extreme high octane non-dual" etc. It seems impossible because we imagine such an event as the familiar "I" relaxing its grip on the things that make the "I". Of course that can't happen. But what can happen is that the whole package can be seen as a fantasy. Why should that seem so remarkable? Of course it's all mental activity ... what else could it be? > Yeah we try to end suffering and that’s the idea.. This endless attempt to end suffering is the ego. This act of trying to escape is the thing from which we are trying to escape. What really is so remarkable about this process coming into view? Rob - alan kuntz Realization Sunday, February 09, 2003 1:53 PM Re: Re: speak Transformation turns something into something else. yep! Realization doesn't change something into something else. Eventually it might.All somethings drop because they never have been. yeah well from some extreme high octane non dual existential perspectives perhaps but I have my doubt that there are those who really see this BigIncluding any experiential qualities that could be called "realizing" ... Through self observation your sense or beliefs or idea s of self ,quality change gradually. Its as one big Kahauna said "The purpose of zen is to Build character.Yet your day to day life is not interfered with in any way whatsoever. Yeah we try to end suffering and that’s the idea..There are 2 ways to go about this . 1) unaware 2) slightly aware-- Dan - dan330033 <dan330033 Realization Saturday, February 08, 2003 1:55 PM Re: speak Transformation turns something into something else.Realization doesn't change something into something else.All somethings drop because they never have been.Including any experiential qualities that could be called "realizing" ...Yet your day to day life is not interfered with in any way whatsoever.-- DanRealization , "alan kuntz" <alakun@m...> wrote:> > ----- there is no realization.> > > Well how about transformation?Is there a wish to be transformed? > If not a wish or desire to be enlightened which is simply 3rd state self reflective self consciousness for most of us I guess there wouldn't be anything to realize.> > Realization is not a toy or a game..We all enter this game with motivation at least towards friendship, community .> The word church means Dialogue> and so in light of this list or other list we dialogue about the self and what self means and we talk about the many various selfs.Just let your selfs out and there will be a lot to realize and you might not even like it LOL.> > ssage ----- > dan330033 <dan330033> > Realization > Saturday, February 08, 2003 12:40 PM> Re: speak> > > Hi Jill Jewell --> > Nice to hear from you.> > Realization is a word, a toy, that > people like to throw around and play with,> sometimes enthusiastically, sometimes not.> > Enthusiasm fades, as do all qualities attached> to a human being, as does the formulation of> "human being" ...> > Words are given about realization, not because> there is any happening called realization,> nor because something needs to be said> about it.> > Words are given only because a word may dissolve> a stuckness in concept-as-if-real.> > The truth of realization is neither an activity> nor an event -- so the word realization> is utterly misleading -- there is no realization.> > Generally, tendencies are moving along through time,> forming a being "as if" -- on an ongoing basis.> > For the dissolution of the "as if" attempt, the> conglomeration of hopes, fears, desires --> for the ceasing of the intent to continue ...> > Well, that can't possibly be a space-time event.> > A word is a space-time event.> > Although there is nothing that can be said or> done to be awake, to be who one actually is> not existing within the imagined placement of> an experiential locale --> > It wouldn't be correct to say "do nothing"> or "realize there is nothing to do" --> > Either of those are merely a reaction against> space-time activity, and so are also> conditioned and conditional.> > This is why words are offered.> > Many will banter words around about day> to day life events, or concepts about> something they think occurs for someone> as "realization."> > To know, such that one's knowing and being> are one, and there is no knowing to have,> nor being to express --> > That is a rare understanding, indeed.> > There is no form of knowing, being, or> doing which is not included.> > This occurs beyond the relationship factors> of day-to-day being, doing, and word exchange --> without occurring or being perceived --> yet not in any way a lack of something> occurring or being perceived ...> > One could say "no subject or> object" as "totality awareness of/as *is*"> > Thanks for sharing your inquiry.> > > Dan> > Realization , JillLindner <jeweljill9> > wrote:> > > > What can I say to get Dan on a roll. He never speaks unless it is > immediately pertaining to Realization. How anyone could ever find > anything to say about Realization, amazes me, And then what he says > leaves me speechless, so the chances of chit-chat are nill. > > > > There is definitely no lack of enthusiasm in this "chat-room", > whether it dances and circles around the center of Realization, or is > a direct expression of THAT.> > > > What is enthusiasm?> > > > > > jewell> > > ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........> > Email addresses:> Post message: Realization > Un: Realization- > Our web address: http://www.realization.org> > By sending a message to this list, you are giving> permission to have it reproduced as a letter on> http://www.realization.org> ................................................ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.