Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 > It would seem as if the Realization which is pointed to in a good deal of > the nondual > lists is empty of content. Once the illusion of the self is seen through, > it is taken that > there is no one to be responsible for being nice or nasty. Liberation > trumps ethics. > > Another point that comes to mind in reference to your question is a > discussion I just > came across in Tony Parson's book " The Open Secret " . As I understand him, > TP says that there is an incomplete realization, often connnected to a deep > personal experience, in which those who have understood understand > themselves to be special, not realizing that the true understanding > undermines specialness. The Tony Parson's > discussion on this point is set forth at the beginning of an early chapter > in the book called " No One Becomes Enlightened " and goes, in my edition of > the book, from page > 15 to 17. > > Still, to the best I can tell, these special ones have a special place in > God's world, > and will be justly rewarded for the good work they do in helping the rest of > us > come down off our high horses and learn to take a good punch in the nose. > > Still reeling and a bit woosey from that last punch......Harvey Harvey -- The only reason for a punch in the nose is to end speculation. And no -- " this " is not empty of content. There is no consciousness apart from the content, and no content apart from the consciousness. Harvey, you slay me -- What could be more " special " than being a know-it-all about complete and incomplete realizations? " I am so much more nonspecial than all those others who think they are special. " What a typical guru ploy! Give me a break! A punch in the nose is something you won't find in a book. And there's a punch in the nose hitting you in the face as we speak ... -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2003 Report Share Posted April 18, 2003 - " dan330033 " <dan330033 <Realization > Friday, April 18, 2003 11:19 AM Re: Name Calling ( wisdom or fear ? ) / Harvey > > It would seem as if the Realization which is pointed to in a good > deal of > > the nondual > > lists is empty of content. Once the illusion of the self is seen > through, > > it is taken that > > there is no one to be responsible for being nice or nasty. > Liberation > > trumps ethics. > > > > Another point that comes to mind in reference to your question is a > > discussion I just > > came across in Tony Parson's book " The Open Secret " . As I > understand him, > > TP says that there is an incomplete realization, often connnected > to a deep > > personal experience, in which those who have understood understand > > themselves to be special, not realizing that the true understanding > > undermines specialness. The Tony Parson's > > discussion on this point is set forth at the beginning of an early > chapter > > in the book called " No One Becomes Enlightened " and goes, in my > edition of > > the book, from page > > 15 to 17. > > > > Still, to the best I can tell, these special ones have a special > place in > > God's world, > > and will be justly rewarded for the good work they do in helping > the rest of > > us > > come down off our high horses and learn to take a good punch in the > nose. > > > > Still reeling and a bit woosey from that last punch......Harvey > > Harvey -- Hi Dan, Thanks for the attention. > > The only reason for a punch in the nose is > to end speculation. That must be another reason I hadn't speculated on. > > And no -- " this " is not empty of content. > > There is no consciousness apart from the content, > and no content apart from the consciousness. Sounds pretty self evident. I think you caught me in sloppy thinking here (again). > > Harvey, you slay me -- > What could be more " special " than being a know-it-all > about complete and incomplete realizations? It seems here that you are aiming to punch out my lights and Tony Parson's lights with one sentence. The only thing more special I can think of is to be Dan Berkow, the greatest philosopher of nonduality and other sundries ever to trod the earth. Still, there is the idea - somewhere - that enlilghtenment brings one to see all others as the same manifestation as oneself. Not exactly the premise for put down name calling. Doesn't the zen story about mountains and rivers point to complete and incomplete realizations? Defensive and agressive put downs could be a sign of some kind of incomplete development, don't you think? > > " I am so much more nonspecial than all those others > who think they are special. " What a typical > guru ploy! > > Give me a break! Are you familiar with Tony Parsons? Are there any further impressions you could share other than what you've just said? > > A punch in the nose is something you > won't find in a book. > > And there's a punch in the nose hitting you in > the face as we speak ... Do you have to always punch me on the same spot? Thanks for the love - and that killer mind. Harvey > > -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Hi Harvey -- > Thanks for the attention. You're welcome ... It's free -- just not given to anyone. > > The only reason for a punch in the nose is > > to end speculation. > > That must be another reason I hadn't speculated on. There's no time to speculate at the moment of impact. > > And no -- " this " is not empty of content. > > > > There is no consciousness apart from the content, > > and no content apart from the consciousness. > > Sounds pretty self evident. I think you caught me in > sloppy thinking here (again). Well, it's a transformation of everyting, without anything changing. So, it's not really a matter of thinking at all. The consciousness that was assumed to be looking at things across a distance, suddenly has no distance. And the things being looked at suddenly aren't anything else, or other. Yet, the content isn't any different. It's just that the content is the consciousness and vice versa. And has been all along. > > Harvey, you slay me -- > > What could be more " special " than being a know-it-all > > about complete and incomplete realizations? > > It seems here that you are aiming to punch out my lights and > Tony Parson's lights with one sentence. Hah! As all the lights are punched out, and the puncher's punch lands home ... it's light's out ... for puncher, punched and punching. So, what's left? Immediacy, nonseparation, totality. Not had by someone. Not imparted to anyone. Not realized here or there. What's that like? As it's never not the case, how could it be like anything? So, the content is the consciousness ... In all cases of all beings at all times ... Truly, " nothing special " -- quite so. > The only thing more special I can think of is to be Dan Berkow, > the greatest philosopher of nonduality and other sundries ever to > trod the earth. What crap! Do you want to hear me say that Dan's words are nonsense? Okay, Dan's words are nonsense. > Still, there is the idea - somewhere - that enlilghtenment brings one > to see all others as the same manifestation as oneself. Not exactly > the premise for put down name calling. There are no rules for it or to it, don't you see? It's never not the case. It's not attributable to any one whatsoever. No one embodies it, shows it, gives it. That is why it is what it is. > Doesn't the zen story about mountains and rivers point to complete > and incomplete realizations? Not to me. To me it points to having realizations, and then to the dissolution of the entire framework of realization and nonrealization ... > Defensive and agressive put downs > could be a sign of some kind of incomplete development, > don't you think? Only if one is involved with thinking in terms of complete and incomplete. Totality doesn't ever complete itself, and thus is never incomplete. > > " I am so much more nonspecial than all those others > > who think they are special. " What a typical > > guru ploy! > > > > Give me a break! > > Are you familiar with Tony Parsons? Are there any further > impressions you could share other than what you've just > said? He seems fine to me. I have no problem with him at all. > > A punch in the nose is something you > > won't find in a book. > > > > And there's a punch in the nose hitting you in > > the face as we speak ... > > Do you have to always punch me on the same spot? > Thanks for the love - and that killer mind. What spot is that? I'm getting hit at every spot simultaneously, so there's no feeling to it at all! Thanks for your love, too. Did you ever see the movie " Attack of the Killer Tomatoes " ? It's actually a story about realizing the truth you are, and the tomatoes are minds in search of truth ... trying to grasp the content of enlightenment as a human being ... Peace and laughs, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Harvey wrote: > Doesn't the zen story about mountains and rivers point to complete> and incomplete realizations? Dan wrote: Not to me.To me it points to having realizations, and then to the dissolution of the entire framework of realization and nonrealization ... ********* Bingo! The whole silly business of realized and non-realized implodes. Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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