Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 I find it surprising and very disappointing that some so-called spiritually advanced and insightful people have apparently completely misunderstood the posts that Ganga has contributed, and how terribly wrong they have been in the way that they have characterized her. I can only assume the errors that these people have made in understanding Ganga's posts are primarily due to the fact that they do not really know her, and because they have not ever met her - in person, and have not actually spent any time getting to know her, and so they really have no idea what she is really like. I have seen her posts continually being misinterpreted, and their real meaning and intent failing to be understood by some - over and over again, even to the point where she is repeatedly accused of things that she is not the least bit guilty of. I have personally spent many hours with Ganga, talking with her, watching her relate to her students and others - observing her carrying out the affairs of her daily life, and I have also directly witnessed the effects she has had on me and others that she has met. .... So I know first hand what she is REALLY like! She lives a very modest life, and except for a few occasional voluntary donations lives totally from her own resources. It is almost entirely from out of her own pocket that she has paid for the work that she has given to others, asking for nothing in return for herself. She has made herself available 24/7 to anyone who needs her help, often having to travel great distances, paying for everything from her own limited income. There have been those, like myself, who have come to Ganga for help, out of desperation, and who have greatly benefited by their association with her. I think one of the first things one will notice from being around Ganga is the enormous sense of calm that one will immediately feel, so much so that whatever mental agitations were going on inside one before, seem to subside, and for the most part vanish altogether. This alone has help me greatly, and still continues to do so, as each time I " hang-out " with Ganga I am allowed, by virtue her presence, to briefly get outside my own " internal dialogue " , and get a glimpse of what it is like to be able to truly exist within the present moment. There is never any sense of hierarchy or judgment coming from her – only a loving, warm acceptance, and complete understanding. And somehow she always seems to be able to relate to each individual from their own particular reference point and world view. Once I brought my young troubled son for help – he was very reluctant to come and quite paranoid, but in no time both he and Ganga were rapping and laughing like old street buddies. Another student of Ganga's I know was unable to even care for herself and her child, but after hang'n out with Ganga for awhile, and implementing the " tools " given to her by Ganga, she was able to go back to work, resume taking care of her son, and is now even making her own " spirituals break-throughs " . Due to Ganga's help, my own panic attacks are gone now, and my " mind chatter " , together with other chronic psychological problems, are beginning to subside. One time, when I was over at Ganga's I found myself outside of my body looking down at myself and everyone in her apartment. She told me that it was only meant for me to see that I was not my body. These are only just a couple of examples that I thought I might share with you, because there are far too many incidences to tell you about in this format of her selfless help of others, and of the " unusual " metaphysical events that always seem to take place when one is around her. In general I find Ganga to be quite extraordinarily ordinary – very feisty, and always full of harmless, fun-loving horse-play, and laughter. She is absolutely up front, and totally ethical in everyway, completely accessible to everyone who would need her help, and never hiding some secret agenda, or keeping herself privately aloof. There has never been any sense of one being higher, or another being lower, when around her, and so the traditional sense of status, which that often comes from many " gurus " , is altogether absent. Rather, Ganga is more like a mentor and a friend that you can trust without reservation, There is always a mutual respect of being equal, however, there is, nevertheless, an inner cognition that this is truly an exceptional human being – just an intuitive understanding, which that automatically elicits a great deal of respect and humility when in her presence. This is difficult to explain. I have been around the block a few times, and over the years have been associated with various spiritual communities and so- called " masters " , so what I am writing here, I assure you, is not just the blind adorations of another starry-eyed, naive devotee. I only mention this so that " sincere seekers " who need, and who are asking for help, will not fall into dismay, and might consider the teachings of Ganga that are being offered on these web sites as indeed having validity, and may, therefore, be able to provide you with the possibility of finding a way out of your suffering. With love and affection, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Dear Tony: I really did not know anything at all about Ganga except what is posted here. Your post was quite moving. Thanks so much setting the record straight. Love, Ramana aka Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Realization , " RAMANA MAHARSHI " <unbound@h...> wrote: > Dear Tony: > I really did not know anything at all about Ganga except what is posted here. Your post was quite moving. Thanks so much setting the record straight. > > Love, > Ramana aka Alton **** T: No Problem - sorry for the typos. :-) And thanks for listening! .... Hey, how do you do that thing with the text? With love and affection, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Dear Tony: If you send it from your email you can put is colors. About typos: I typed in whole books on MillionPaths group and now that I am going back to read some of it, I find tons of mistakes. When I type an email or post I have to be careful not to send it without proof reading it. Sometimes when I am tired I don't see the mistakes until I reread it 5 minutes later and it is already posted or sent to friends. I asked a very smart professor friend if he does that also and he said yes. Sometimes I type is words that I don't want to. We would never speak that way so there is some kind of disconnect in our brains. Love, Alton - Anthony Realization Saturday, April 19, 2003 11:25 AM Re: Who Is Ganga Karmokar? Realization , "RAMANA MAHARSHI" <unbound@h...> wrote:> Dear Tony:> I really did not know anything at all about Ganga except what is posted here. Your post was quite moving. Thanks so much setting the record straight.> > Love,> Ramana aka Alton**** T: No Problem - sorry for the typos. :-)And thanks for listening!... Hey, how do you do that thing with the text?With love and affection,Tony..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Realization , " RAMANA MAHARSHI " <unbound@h...> wrote: > Dear Tony: > If you send it from your email you can put is colors. > About typos: I typed in whole books on MillionPaths group and now that I am going back to read some of it, I find tons of mistakes. > When I type an email or post I have to be careful not to send it without proof reading it. Sometimes when I am tired I don't see the mistakes until I reread it 5 minutes later and it is already posted or sent to friends. > > I asked a very smart professor friend if he does that also and he said yes. Sometimes I type is words that I don't want to. We would never speak that way so there is some kind of disconnect in our brains. > Love, > Alton **** T: That's Great! Thanks for the tips. :-) > With love and affection, > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Being a nurse-maid to suffering souls is one thing, " Understanding " is quite another! Not even in the same book. Suffering souls need other suffering souls to keep their game going. If you could see it through my eyes, it's the epitome of ignorance and stupidity. Circle jerk, no matter how you " color " it, it's nothing more. Like I said, understanding is another thing entirely. Not even on the same " planet " . Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Realization , " judirhodes " <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > Being a nurse-maid to suffering souls is one thing, " Understanding " > is quite another! Not even in the same book. Suffering souls need > other suffering souls to keep their game going. If you could see it > through my eyes, it's the epitome of ignorance and stupidity. > Circle jerk, no matter how you " color " it, it's nothing more. > > Like I said, understanding is another thing entirely. Not even on the > same " planet " . > > Judi My dear if you didn't see suffering then just what is your agenda in continuing to post to the sites ? Is it because everyone is wonderful in their own way ? As you just said that desires used to make you suffer. Well so what makes you any different ? Whether you say you are here to end their suffering by causing their death or it is said it is out of compassion it still comes down to the exactly Same happening. You say understanding she calls it knowing , one and the same. You continue in every venue to equate her with suffering when she clearly states it is no longer there? So what suffering person is there for another suffering person to cling to . Talk about being blind and seeing only what you want . How you can twist what she says 180 degrees around is amazing. If I can find the old issue of inner traveler she speaks to this very thing . The whole article may be found in the issue before last of other Inner Traveler: These are simply small excerpts The thing is for people to wake up and see that it is they themselves that create their own suffering. That is what it is all about. , learning to confront yourself fully. Now this isn't popular as people want some candy-coated treat and more ego stroking. But that simply is not the way out of pain or the way to solve anything. The only way out is in directly confronting your own ego and self concepts. This is the hard reality. But you will find that those within their pain will simply for the most part fight you tooth and nail, all the while shouting about the pain, but not being willing to give anything up to get out of it . The monkey is trapped by its own desires even when facing death. This is the ego mind. Self Enquiry is not just intellectually running through a list , it is in your face pulling apart and diving within until there is nothing left. The world seeks their own. You are comfortable around suffering in that everyone can sit and relate to everyone else's pain. Everyone can sit together and be long suffering and each can attempt to outdo the other with their pain and suffering stories. Then everyone says you have a right to feel the way you do , Poor soul, a real pity party . Not easy to hear, but true. How do I know? I used to be there too. (snipped for space) Want to get out ? Find someone that has tuned out of As the stomach turns? It goes on with more, but suffice it to say I don't think that this is someone that is promoting suffering in any way shape or form. Nor do I find her to be one that allows anyone to cry on her coattail. It seems that the picture you continue to try to paint of her just doesn't tally with what she says or apparently with the ones that have met her in light of the posting by tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 My dear if you didn't see suffering then just what is your agenda in continuing to post to the sites ? Is it because everyone is wonderful in their own way ? ****** I have no "agenda", it's all for fun. And as far as what you say about Ganga below, like I told you before, she "says" a lot of things, but when put to the test herself, it's another story. And if it were just me, I would perhaps wonder, but it's been several of us that see the exact same thing and have called her on it and she bristles or ignores all of us. So there you have it. Judi As you just said that desires used to make you suffer. Well so what makes you any different ? Whether you say you are here to end their suffering by causing their death or it is said it is out of compassion it still comes down to the exactly Same happening.You say understanding she calls it knowing , one and the same.You continue in every venue to equate her with suffering when she clearly states it is no longer there? So what suffering person is there for another suffering person to cling to .Talk about being blind and seeing only what you want . How you can twist what she says 180 degrees around is amazing. If I can find the old issue of inner traveler she speaks to this very thing . The whole article may be found in the issue before last of other Inner Traveler: These are simply small excerptsThe thing is for people to wake up and see that it is they themselves that create their own suffering. That iswhat it is all about. , learning to confront yourself fully. Now this isn't popular as people want some candy-coated treat and more ego stroking. But that simply is not the way out of pain or the way to solve anything. The only way out is in directly confronting your own ego and self concepts. This is the hard reality.But you will find that those within their pain will simply for the most part fight you tooth and nail, all the while shouting about the pain, but not being willing to give anything up to get out of it . The monkey is trapped by its own desires even when facing death. This is the ego mind. Self Enquiry is not just intellectually running through a list , it is in your face pulling apart and diving within until there is nothing left. The world seeks their own. You are comfortable around suffering in that everyone can sit and relate to everyone else's pain. Everyone can sit together and be long suffering and each can attempt to outdo the other with their pain and suffering stories. Then everyone says you have a right to feel the way you do , Poor soul, a real pity party . Not easy to hear, but true. How do I know? I used to be there too.(snipped for space) Want to get out ? Find someone that has tuned out of As the stomach turns?It goes on with more, but suffice it to say I don't think that this is someone that is promoting suffering in any way shape or form. Nor do I find her to be one that allows anyone to cry on her coattail. It seems that the picture you continue to try to paint of her just doesn't tally with what she says or apparently with the ones that have met her in light of the posting by tony. ...........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Realization , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > > > > My dear if you didn't see suffering then just what is your agenda > in continuing to post to the sites ? Is it because everyone is > wonderful in their own way ? > > ****** I have no " agenda " , it's all for fun. And as far as what you say about Ganga below, like I told you before, she " says " a lot of things, but when put to the test herself, it's another story. And if it were just me, I would perhaps wonder, but it's been several of us that see the exact same thing and have called her on it and she bristles or ignores all of us. So there you have it. > > Judi Well ok you simply enjoy raking people over the coals for the fun of it. At least I thought you had some redeeming motivation behind it but now I see that even that concession was a fallacy. Just what test has Ganga been put to ? The Judy evaluation test ? The Dan test ? As for the ones you mentioned they are far from authorities on any level as to what I have seen. I would say that the proof is in the pudding of the ones that she has been working with . It appears that Tony is doing quite well and has had many confirming happenings. He is not the only one as there are to numerous to mention ongoing letters posted to her sites that have those being worked with writing with updates . I see so she should simply buckle under and kow-tow to the gang? What if the gang is wrong? Seems that someone that is truly liberated wouldn't feel the need to conform to what you or anyone else thinks . Perhaps that is one reason that they call it liberation . Not only out of their own stuff so to speak, it appears that they have no need to buckle under to peer preasure, but in this case are they really peers ? Or are they simply the running club of dissention . Do you think that if any Sages were called on their words or pointing that they would give a hill of beans about your or their judgements. I seriously doubt it . And now more than ever I see her clarity and unswerving dedication. She doesn't do it to have a lark, nor to garner devotees, Tony has told me that she quite is against promotion in any way shape or form. Even here in black and white or check it out in color in the inner traveler her words belay your judgements. Where in this is there promoting suffering ? Once more what was given here was deflected with simply another " I have judged her and we have judged her " . Oh judge not lest ye be judged. > > > As you just said that desires used to make you suffer. Well so > what makes you any different ? Whether you say you are here to > end their suffering by causing their death or it is said it is out of > compassion it still comes down to the exactly Same happening. > > You say understanding she calls it knowing , one and the same. > > You continue in every venue to equate her with suffering when > she clearly states it is no longer there? So what suffering > person is there for another suffering person to cling to . > Talk about being blind and seeing only what you want . How you > can twist what she says 180 degrees around is amazing. > > If I can find the old issue of inner traveler she speaks to this very > thing . > > The whole article may be found in the issue before last of other > Inner Traveler: These are simply small excerpts > > The thing is for people to wake up and see that it is they > themselves that create their own suffering. That is > what it is all about. , learning to confront yourself fully. Now this > isn't popular as people want some candy-coated treat and more > ego stroking. But that simply is not the way out of pain or the way > to solve anything. The only way out is in directly confronting your > own ego and self concepts. This is the hard reality. > > But you will find that those within their pain will simply for the > most part fight you tooth and nail, all the while shouting about the > pain, but not being willing to give anything up to get out of it . The > monkey is trapped by its own desires even when facing death. > This is the ego mind. > > Self Enquiry is not just intellectually running through a list , it is in > your face pulling apart and diving within until there is nothing left. > > The world seeks their own. You are comfortable around suffering > in that everyone can sit and relate to everyone else's pain. > Everyone can sit together and be long suffering and each can > attempt to outdo the other with their pain and suffering stories. > Then everyone says you have a right to feel the way you do , Poor > soul, a real pity party . Not easy to hear, but true. How do I know? > I used to be there too. > > (snipped for space) Want to get out ? Find someone that has > tuned out of As the stomach turns? > > > It goes on with more, but suffice it to say I don't think that this is > someone that is promoting suffering in any way shape or form. > Nor do I find her to be one that allows anyone to cry on her > coattail. > > It seems that the picture you continue to try to paint of her just > doesn't tally with what she says or apparently with the ones that > have met her in light of the posting by tony. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 I've said over and over again, you either understand where I'm coming from or you don't. I can't convince you and I'm not of the mind to want to "convince" anybody of anything. If that's where you're at, that's where you're at. Her fear is understandable and I don't berate her or anyone for that, that's her level of maturity, but her lying I find a bit over the top. In some of the things that she's said it's just like that guy Bagdad Bob, boldface lying right to your face. What else can I say, I find it not only sad, but despicable and disgusting. And if you think I have my head up my ass for it, so be it, but it's where we part ways my friend. Judi Well ok you simply enjoy raking people over the coals for the fun of it. At least I thought you had some redeeming motivation behind it but now I see that even that concession was a fallacy. Just what test has Ganga been put to ? The Judy evaluation test ? The Dan test ? As for the ones you mentioned they are far from authorities on any level as to what I have seen. I would say that the proof is in the pudding of the ones that she has been working with . It appears that Tony is doing quite well and has had many confirming happenings. He is not the only one as there are to numerous to mention ongoing letters posted to her sites that have those being worked with writing with updates . I see so she should simply buckle under and kow-tow to the gang? What if the gang is wrong? Seems that someone that is truly liberated wouldn't feel the need to conform to what you or anyone else thinks . Perhaps that is one reason that they call it liberation . Not only out of their own stuff so to speak, it appears that they have no need to buckle under to peer preasure, but in this case are they really peers ? Or are they simply the running club of dissention . Do you think that if any Sages were called on their words or pointing that they would give a hill of beans about your or their judgements. I seriously doubt it . And now more than ever I see her clarity and unswerving dedication. She doesn't do it to have a lark, nor to garner devotees, Tony has told me that she quite is against promotion in any way shape or form. Even here in black and white or check it out in color in the inner traveler her words belay your judgements. Where in this is there promoting suffering ? Once more what was given here was deflected with simply another "I have judged her and we have judged her " . Oh judge not lest ye be judged. > > > As you just said that desires used to make you suffer. Well so > what makes you any different ? Whether you say you are here to > end their suffering by causing their death or it is said it is out of > compassion it still comes down to the exactly Same happening.> > You say understanding she calls it knowing , one and the same.> > You continue in every venue to equate her with suffering when > she clearly states it is no longer there? So what suffering > person is there for another suffering person to cling to .> Talk about being blind and seeing only what you want . How you > can twist what she says 180 degrees around is amazing. > > If I can find the old issue of inner traveler she speaks to this very > thing . > > The whole article may be found in the issue before last of other > Inner Traveler: These are simply small excerpts> > The thing is for people to wake up and see that it is they > themselves that create their own suffering. That is> what it is all about. , learning to confront yourself fully. Now this > isn't popular as people want some candy-coated treat and more > ego stroking. But that simply is not the way out of pain or the way > to solve anything. The only way out is in directly confronting your > own ego and self concepts. This is the hard reality.> > But you will find that those within their pain will simply for the > most part fight you tooth and nail, all the while shouting about the > pain, but not being willing to give anything up to get out of it . The > monkey is trapped by its own desires even when facing death. > This is the ego mind. > > Self Enquiry is not just intellectually running through a list , it is in > your face pulling apart and diving within until there is nothing left. > > The world seeks their own. You are comfortable around suffering > in that everyone can sit and relate to everyone else's pain. > Everyone can sit together and be long suffering and each can > attempt to outdo the other with their pain and suffering stories. > Then everyone says you have a right to feel the way you do , Poor > soul, a real pity party . Not easy to hear, but true. How do I know? > I used to be there too.> > (snipped for space) Want to get out ? Find someone that has > tuned out of As the stomach turns?> > > It goes on with more, but suffice it to say I don't think that this is > someone that is promoting suffering in any way shape or form. > Nor do I find her to be one that allows anyone to cry on her > coattail. > > It seems that the picture you continue to try to paint of her just > doesn't tally with what she says or apparently with the ones that > have met her in light of the posting by tony. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Realization , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > I've said over and over again, you either understand where I'm coming from or you don't. I can't convince you and I'm not of the mind to want to " convince " anybody of anything. If that's where you're at, that's where you're at. Her fear is understandable and I don't berate her or anyone for that, that's her level of maturity, but her lying I find a bit over the top. In some of the things that she's said it's just like that guy Bagdad Bob, boldface lying right to your face. What else can I say, I find it not only sad, but despicable and disgusting. And if you think I have my head up my ass for it, so be it, but it's where we part ways my friend. > > Jud Once again bring on the proof . For someone that doesn't care to convince anyone you sure have spent a lot of effort in just that. What fear ? That is so ridiculous even for you to say . Perhaps the fear is within your own mind . I don't berate you fearing her as obviously you have some real major buttons concerning her. And to date have not even brought one ounce of proof except because I said so . That isn't proof that is personal biased judgement. One more time WHAT lying . You continue to make that accusation without any proof what so ever. I think you have been quite despicable for attempting to slander someone . I have given place after place where you can find exactly what is there to back up what is being said from this side. While on your side it comes down to once again crying and whining that she lies and how disgusted you are. Well at this point I am getting pretty disgusted simply because of the unending allegations that bear no proof at all. Bagdad bob? You think that bob is lying to everyone ? Oh now this is just to rich. You go on his site, trash the people there except for you special friends , then come back here and call them all liars. If that isn't lowdown and despicable. Lady I am sorry but with every post your credibility is going right down the tubes. Once again it has not been responded to responsibly but another allegation and attempt to deflect the attention into another area which in fact has no basis . Does it hurt more that she is actually helping others and getting results. Or is it more painful that your last encounter with Ganga from what I saw didn't fullfil your expectations. I see you were saying how Jodi/Jody was having fun and then Dan says he was getting stabbed. From what I looked at of the exchange it appeared that Ganga was simply posting back what he had posted openly online before and then simply was confronting him openly. Didn't see any bullshitt or name calling in it well except from you and jodi. It seems that she was pretty straight forward. > Well ok you simply enjoy raking people over the coals for the fun > of it. At least I thought you had some redeeming motivation > behind it but now I see that even that concession was a fallacy. > > Just what test has Ganga been put to ? The Judy evaluation test > ? The Dan test ? As for the ones you mentioned they are far > from authorities on any level as to what I have seen. I would > say that the proof is in the pudding of the ones that she has been > working with . It appears that Tony is doing quite well and has > had many confirming happenings. He is not the only one as > there are to numerous to mention ongoing letters posted to her > sites that have those being worked with writing with updates . > > I see so she should simply buckle under and kow-tow to the > gang? What if the gang is wrong? Seems that someone that is > truly liberated wouldn't feel the need to conform to what you or > anyone else thinks . Perhaps that is one reason that they call it > liberation . Not only out of their own stuff so to speak, it appears > that they have no need to buckle under to peer preasure, but in > this case are they really peers ? Or are they simply the running > club of dissention . > > Do you think that if any Sages were called on their words or > pointing that they would give a hill of beans about your or their > judgements. I seriously doubt it . And now more than ever I see > her clarity and unswerving dedication. She doesn't do it to have > a lark, nor to garner devotees, Tony has told me that she quite is > against promotion in any way shape or form. > > Even here in black and white or check it out in color in the inner > traveler her words belay your judgements. Where in this is there > promoting suffering ? Once more what was given here was > deflected with simply another " I have judged her and we have > judged her " . Oh judge not lest ye be judged. > > > > > As you just said that desires used to make you suffer. Well > so > > what makes you any different ? Whether you say you are here > to > > end their suffering by causing their death or it is said it is out > of > > compassion it still comes down to the exactly Same > happening. > > > > You say understanding she calls it knowing , one and the > same. > > > > You continue in every venue to equate her with suffering when > > she clearly states it is no longer there? So what suffering > > person is there for another suffering person to cling to . > > Talk about being blind and seeing only what you want . How > you > > can twist what she says 180 degrees around is amazing. > > > > If I can find the old issue of inner traveler she speaks to this > very > > thing . > > > > The whole article may be found in the issue before last of > other > > Inner Traveler: These are simply small excerpts > > > > The thing is for people to wake up and see that it is they > > themselves that create their own suffering. That is > > what it is all about. , learning to confront yourself fully. Now > this > > isn't popular as people want some candy-coated treat and > more > > ego stroking. But that simply is not the way out of pain or the > way > > to solve anything. The only way out is in directly confronting > your > > own ego and self concepts. This is the hard reality. > > > > But you will find that those within their pain will simply for the > > most part fight you tooth and nail, all the while shouting about > the > > pain, but not being willing to give anything up to get out of it . > The > > monkey is trapped by its own desires even when facing > death. > > This is the ego mind. > > > > Self Enquiry is not just intellectually running through a list , it > is in > > your face pulling apart and diving within until there is nothing > left. > > > > The world seeks their own. You are comfortable around > suffering > > in that everyone can sit and relate to everyone else's pain. > > Everyone can sit together and be long suffering and each can > > attempt to outdo the other with their pain and suffering stories. > > Then everyone says you have a right to feel the way you do , > Poor > > soul, a real pity party . Not easy to hear, but true. How do I > know? > > I used to be there too. > > > > (snipped for space) Want to get out ? Find someone that has > > tuned out of As the stomach turns? > > > > > > It goes on with more, but suffice it to say I don't think that this > is > > someone that is promoting suffering in any way shape or > form. > > Nor do I find her to be one that allows anyone to cry on her > > coattail. > > > > It seems that the picture you continue to try to paint of her just > > doesn't tally with what she says or apparently with the ones > that > > have met her in light of the posting by tony. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Realization , " judirhodes " <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > Being a nurse-maid to suffering souls is one thing, " Understanding " > is quite another! Not even in the same book. Suffering souls need > other suffering souls to keep their game going. If you could see it > through my eyes, it's the epitome of ignorance and stupidity. > Circle jerk, no matter how you " color " it, it's nothing more. > > Like I said, understanding is another thing entirely. Not even on the > same " planet " . > > Judi Being a nurse-maid to suffering souls is one thing, " Understanding " >is quite another! Not even in the same book. Suffering souls need >other suffering souls to keep their game going. If you could see it >through my eyes, it's the epitome of ignorance and stupidity. >Circle jerk, no matter how you " color " it, it's nothing more. >Like I said, understanding is another thing entirely. Not even on the same " planet " . >Judi **** T: Hi Judi, I wish I could express to you the reality of Ganga so that you would be able to " understand " the misconceptions you continue to have about her. It does appear that you have prematurely judged her based on the way she expresses herself, the language she uses, and even perhaps her physical appearance. .... This seems to be very superficial and petty. While it is true that " suffering souls " are certainly full of self- pity and do seem to enjoy wallowing in their own and each other's misery, this is that last thing that is tolerated around Ganga. I cannot deny the obvious patience, compassion, and understanding she invariably demonstrates for each and every one of those " poor souls " , but under no circumstance would I consider it to be anything like being a " nurse-maid " to some " circle jerk " - as you have so characterized it. :-) When one talks to Ganga about their particular " problem " it is apparent that she has an intimate and thorough understanding of exactly where that person is coming from, and although she will try to help you to understand the reasons of why such a condition exists for you, and even suggest certain " tools " that she thinks may be best suited for you to remedy the particular mind-set that is holding you, it is made absolutely clear that the person them self is the only one who can actually do the work - or have the " understanding " , or the " realization, which is imperative if one is going to ever be liberated them from their condition. It is thoroughly explained that the real " problem " is only an egotistical covering over the real " solution " , which indeed is already there - so, in that sense, there is no real " future psychological destination " or " additive psychological accumulation " , but rather it is a " letting go " of a particular " mind-set " , and a negation of those habitual egotistical tendencies, which are holding one's suffering in place. And I pity the poor fool that tries to " cling " to Ganga, because I have watched her chew one such person up one side and down the other in such a way that would even make a sadistic judi in spikes, ruthlessly whipping another to the bone, look like a cream-puff. ..... The message: " No clinging allowed - you must get out there and do the work yourself – and quit whining! I hope you that you will be able to look past these words so you can see directly what I am trying to convey to you, because in many ways it is the very same message that you are constantly suggesting. Again, please don't take offense, and twist my words so as to miss completely the underlying meaning of what I am trying to convey to you, and then just retaliate by giving me one of those infamous tongue-lashings of yours. :-) And please don't just say there is nothing to do, no doer, and nothing at all that any " one " needs to " realize " . .... Because I think that to really " understand " is it important not to just get caught up in the semantics of words and concepts. With love and affection, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 You go back through the posts for months, it's all there. And I'm not being evasive by saying that, it's just not worth it to me. Because unless you know me and where I'm coming from, it would go right over your head anyways. Judi - manjusrilotus Realization Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:12 PM Re: Who Is Ganga Karmokar? Realization , "Judi Rhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:> I've said over and over again, you either understand where I'm coming from or you don't. I can't convince you and I'm not of the mind to want to "convince" anybody of anything. If that's where you're at, that's where you're at. Her fear is understandable and I don't berate her or anyone for that, that's her level of maturity, but her lying I find a bit over the top. In some of the things that she's said it's just like that guy Bagdad Bob, boldface lying right to your face. What else can I say, I find it not only sad, but despicable and disgusting. And if you think I have my head up my ass for it, so be it, but it's where we part ways my friend. > > JudOnce again bring on the proof . For someone that doesn't care to convince anyone you sure have spent a lot of effort in just that. What fear ? That is so ridiculous even for you to say . Perhaps the fear is within your own mind . I don't berate you fearing her as obviously you have some real major buttons concerning her. And to date have not even brought one ounce of proof except because I said so . That isn't proof that is personal biased judgement. One more time WHAT lying . You continue to make that accusation without any proof what so ever. I think you have been quite despicable for attempting to slander someone . I have given place after place where you can find exactly what is there to back up what is being said from this side. While on your side it comes down to once again crying and whining that she lies and how disgusted you are. Well at this point I am getting pretty disgusted simply because of the unending allegations that bear no proof at all. Bagdad bob? You think that bob is lying to everyone ? Oh now this is just to rich. You go on his site, trash the people there except for you special friends , then come back here and call them all liars. If that isn't lowdown and despicable. Lady I am sorry but with every post your credibility is going right down the tubes. Once again it has not been responded to responsibly but another allegation and attempt to deflect the attention into another area which in fact has no basis . Does it hurt more that she is actually helping others and getting results. Or is it more painful that your last encounter with Ganga from what I saw didn't fullfil your expectations. I see you were saying how Jodi/Jody was having fun and then Dan says he was getting stabbed. From what I looked at of the exchange it appeared that Ganga was simply posting back what he had posted openly online before and then simply was confronting him openly. Didn't see any bullshitt or name calling in it well except from you and jodi. It seems that she was pretty straight forward. > Well ok you simply enjoy raking people over the coals for the fun > of it. At least I thought you had some redeeming motivation > behind it but now I see that even that concession was a fallacy. > > Just what test has Ganga been put to ? The Judy evaluation test > ? The Dan test ? As for the ones you mentioned they are far > from authorities on any level as to what I have seen. I would > say that the proof is in the pudding of the ones that she has been > working with . It appears that Tony is doing quite well and has > had many confirming happenings. He is not the only one as > there are to numerous to mention ongoing letters posted to her > sites that have those being worked with writing with updates . > > I see so she should simply buckle under and kow-tow to the > gang? What if the gang is wrong? Seems that someone that is > truly liberated wouldn't feel the need to conform to what you or > anyone else thinks . Perhaps that is one reason that they call it > liberation . Not only out of their own stuff so to speak, it appears > that they have no need to buckle under to peer preasure, but in > this case are they really peers ? Or are they simply the running > club of dissention . > > Do you think that if any Sages were called on their words or > pointing that they would give a hill of beans about your or their > judgements. I seriously doubt it . And now more than ever I see > her clarity and unswerving dedication. She doesn't do it to have > a lark, nor to garner devotees, Tony has told me that she quite is > against promotion in any way shape or form. > > Even here in black and white or check it out in color in the inner > traveler her words belay your judgements. Where in this is there > promoting suffering ? Once more what was given here was > deflected with simply another "I have judged her and we have > judged her " . Oh judge not lest ye be judged. > > > > > > > > > > > > As you just said that desires used to make you suffer. Well > so > > what makes you any different ? Whether you say you are here > to > > end their suffering by causing their death or it is said it is out > of > > compassion it still comes down to the exactly Same > happening.> > > > You say understanding she calls it knowing , one and the > same.> > > > You continue in every venue to equate her with suffering when > > she clearly states it is no longer there? So what suffering > > person is there for another suffering person to cling to .> > Talk about being blind and seeing only what you want . How > you > > can twist what she says 180 degrees around is amazing. > > > > If I can find the old issue of inner traveler she speaks to this > very > > thing . > > > > The whole article may be found in the issue before last of > other > > Inner Traveler: These are simply small excerpts> > > > The thing is for people to wake up and see that it is they > > themselves that create their own suffering. That is> > what it is all about. , learning to confront yourself fully. Now > this > > isn't popular as people want some candy-coated treat and > more > > ego stroking. But that simply is not the way out of pain or the > way > > to solve anything. The only way out is in directly confronting > your > > own ego and self concepts. This is the hard reality.> > > > But you will find that those within their pain will simply for the > > most part fight you tooth and nail, all the while shouting about > the > > pain, but not being willing to give anything up to get out of it . > The > > monkey is trapped by its own desires even when facing > death. > > This is the ego mind. > > > > Self Enquiry is not just intellectually running through a list , it > is in > > your face pulling apart and diving within until there is nothing > left. > > > > The world seeks their own. You are comfortable around > suffering > > in that everyone can sit and relate to everyone else's pain. > > Everyone can sit together and be long suffering and each can > > attempt to outdo the other with their pain and suffering stories. > > Then everyone says you have a right to feel the way you do , > Poor > > soul, a real pity party . Not easy to hear, but true. How do I > know? > > I used to be there too.> > > > (snipped for space) Want to get out ? Find someone that has > > tuned out of As the stomach turns?> > > > > > It goes on with more, but suffice it to say I don't think that this > is > > someone that is promoting suffering in any way shape or > form. > > Nor do I find her to be one that allows anyone to cry on her > > coattail. > > > > It seems that the picture you continue to try to paint of her just > > doesn't tally with what she says or apparently with the ones > that > > have met her in light of the posting by tony. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Hi Tony, yes I understand, having a "good time" playing with Ganga or whoever and continually looking at your shit is one thing, but "waking the hell up", is completly and totally unrelated to all of that. As Wayne puts it - "You "indulge" in self improvement But all you have to show for it Is an improved self." And THAT is the game Ganga plays. The "self" improvement game. The "getting" something game. And for those of us that are not playing THAT game, she thinks our heads are up are asses. Obviously, she doesn't understand where some of us are coming from and she RAILS against us. Judi **** T: Hi Judi, I wish I could express to you the reality of Ganga so that you would be able to "understand" the misconceptions you continue to have about her. It does appear that you have prematurely judged her based on the way she expresses herself, the language she uses, and even perhaps her physical appearance. ... This seems to be very superficial and petty.While it is true that "suffering souls" are certainly full of self-pity and do seem to enjoy wallowing in their own and each other's misery, this is that last thing that is tolerated around Ganga. I cannot deny the obvious patience, compassion, and understanding she invariably demonstrates for each and every one of those "poor souls", but under no circumstance would I consider it to be anything like being a "nurse-maid" to some "circle jerk" - as you have so characterized it. :-)When one talks to Ganga about their particular "problem" it is apparent that she has an intimate and thorough understanding of exactly where that person is coming from, and although she will try to help you to understand the reasons of why such a condition exists for you, and even suggest certain "tools" that she thinks may be best suited for you to remedy the particular mind-set that is holding you, it is made absolutely clear that the person them self is the only one who can actually do the work - or have the "understanding", or the "realization, which is imperative if one is going to ever be liberated them from their condition. It is thoroughly explained that the real "problem" is only an egotistical covering over the real "solution", which indeed is already there - so, in that sense, there is no real "future psychological destination" or "additive psychological accumulation", but rather it is a "letting go" of a particular "mind-set", and a negation of those habitual egotistical tendencies, which are holding one's suffering in place. And I pity the poor fool that tries to "cling" to Ganga, because I have watched her chew one such person up one side and down the other in such a way that would even make a sadistic judi in spikes, ruthlessly whipping another to the bone, look like a cream-puff..... The message: "No clinging allowed - you must get out there and do the work yourself – and quit whining! I hope you that you will be able to look past these words so you can see directly what I am trying to convey to you, because in many ways it is the very same message that you are constantly suggesting.Again, please don't take offense, and twist my words so as to miss completely the underlying meaning of what I am trying to convey to you, and then just retaliate by giving me one of those infamous tongue-lashings of yours. :-)And please don't just say there is nothing to do, no doer, and nothing at all that any "one" needs to "realize". ... Because I think that to really "understand" is it important not to just get caught up in the semantics of words and concepts.With love and affection,...........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 - Judi Rhodes Realization Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:47 PM Re: Re: Who Is Ganga Karmokar? Hi Tony, yes I understand, having a "good time" playing with Ganga or whoever and continually looking at your shit is one thing, but "waking the hell up", is completly and totally unrelated to all of that. As Wayne puts it - "You "indulge" in self improvement But all you have to show for it Is an improved self." And THAT is the game Ganga plays. The "self" improvement game. The "getting" something game. And for those of us that are not playing THAT game, she thinks our heads are up are asses. Obviously, she doesn't understand where some of us are coming from and she RAILS against us. Judi ********** When "understanding" is more important to you than your having a "good time", then perhaps we can have a discussion, but up and until that time, we're not even on the same page. Apples and oranges. And never the twain meets. Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 - Judi Rhodes Realization Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:47 PM Re: Re: Who Is Ganga Karmokar? Hi Tony, yes I understand, having a "good time" playing with Ganga or whoever and continually looking at your shit is one thing, but "waking the hell up", is completly and totally unrelated to all of that. As Wayne puts it - "You "indulge" in self improvement But all you have to show for it Is an improved self." And THAT is the game Ganga plays. The "self" improvement game. The "getting" something game. And for those of us that are not playing THAT game, she thinks our heads are up are asses. Obviously, she doesn't understand where some of us are coming from and she RAILS against us. Judi ********** And for whatever it's worth to you Tony, know that some of us are laughing at you guys behind your back. Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Realization , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > You go back through the posts for months, it's all there. And I'm not being evasive by saying that, it's just not worth it to me. > Because unless you know me and where I'm coming from, it would go right over your head anyways. > > Judi Another famous sidestep. So funny everything is right over everyones head yet a perfectly legible posting was simply lettuce which you couldn't understand. Judi at this point you might try getting real. I see you are claiming to be running me in circles. Boy are you deluded. Yes indeed if any come here to really take a look for themselves a whole different picture might be seen. Just as if anyone actually looks at the exchanges at the Guru Satsang site they will see just what I just saw. While you say your last post was saying it was all bullshit the post was quite the contrary. You know your boasts will only hold water until someone actually just takes the time to look . Then guess what ? You will expose yourself . - > manjusrilotus > Realization > Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:12 PM > Re: Who Is Ganga Karmokar? > > > Realization , " Judi Rhodes " > <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > > I've said over and over again, you either understand where I'm > coming from or you don't. I can't convince you and I'm not of the > mind to want to " convince " anybody of anything. If that's where > you're at, that's where you're at. Her fear is understandable and I > don't berate her or anyone for that, that's her level of maturity, but > her lying I find a bit over the top. In some of the things that she's > said it's just like that guy Bagdad Bob, boldface lying right to your > face. What else can I say, I find it not only sad, but despicable > and disgusting. And if you think I have my head up my ass for it, > so be it, but it's where we part ways my friend. > > > > Jud > > > Once again bring on the proof . For someone that doesn't care > to convince anyone you sure have spent a lot of effort in just that. > What fear ? That is so ridiculous even for you to say . Perhaps > the fear is within your own mind . I don't berate you fearing her > as obviously you have some real major buttons concerning her. > And to date have not even brought one ounce of proof except > because I said so . That isn't proof that is personal biased > judgement. One more time WHAT lying . You continue to make > that accusation without any proof what so ever. > > I think you have been quite despicable for attempting to slander > someone . I have given place after place where you can find > exactly what is there to back up what is being said from this side. > While on your side it comes down to once again crying and > whining that she lies and how disgusted you are. Well at this > point I am getting pretty disgusted simply because of the > unending allegations that bear no proof at all. > > Bagdad bob? You think that bob is lying to everyone ? Oh now > this is just to rich. You go on his site, trash the people there > except for you special friends , then come back here and call > them all liars. If that isn't lowdown and despicable. Lady I am > sorry but with every post your credibility is going right down the > tubes. > > Once again it has not been responded to responsibly but > another allegation and attempt to deflect the attention into > another area which in fact has no basis . Does it hurt more that > she is actually helping others and getting results. Or is it more > painful that your last encounter with Ganga from what I saw didn't > fullfil your expectations. I see you were saying how Jodi/Jody > was having fun and then Dan says he was getting stabbed. > From what I looked at of the exchange it appeared that Ganga > was simply posting back what he had posted openly online > before and then simply was confronting him openly. Didn't see > any bullshitt or name calling in it well except from you and jodi. > It seems that she was pretty straight forward. > > > > > > > > > > > Well ok you simply enjoy raking people over the coals for the > fun > > of it. At least I thought you had some redeeming motivation > > behind it but now I see that even that concession was a fallacy. > > > > Just what test has Ganga been put to ? The Judy evaluation > test > > ? The Dan test ? As for the ones you mentioned they are far > > from authorities on any level as to what I have seen. I would > > say that the proof is in the pudding of the ones that she has > been > > working with . It appears that Tony is doing quite well and has > > had many confirming happenings. He is not the only one as > > there are to numerous to mention ongoing letters posted to her > > sites that have those being worked with writing with updates .. > > > > I see so she should simply buckle under and kow-tow to the > > gang? What if the gang is wrong? Seems that someone that > is > > truly liberated wouldn't feel the need to conform to what you or > > anyone else thinks . Perhaps that is one reason that they call it > > liberation . Not only out of their own stuff so to speak, it > appears > > that they have no need to buckle under to peer preasure, but in > > this case are they really peers ? Or are they simply the running > > club of dissention . > > > > Do you think that if any Sages were called on their words or > > pointing that they would give a hill of beans about your or their > > judgements. I seriously doubt it . And now more than ever I > see > > her clarity and unswerving dedication. She doesn't do it to > have > > a lark, nor to garner devotees, Tony has told me that she quite > is > > against promotion in any way shape or form. > > > > Even here in black and white or check it out in color in the inner > > traveler her words belay your judgements. Where in this is > there > > promoting suffering ? Once more what was given here was > > deflected with simply another " I have judged her and we have > > judged her " . Oh judge not lest ye be judged. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you just said that desires used to make you suffer. Well > > so > > > what makes you any different ? Whether you say you are > here > > to > > > end their suffering by causing their death or it is said it is out > > of > > > compassion it still comes down to the exactly Same > > happening. > > > > > > You say understanding she calls it knowing , one and the > > same. > > > > > > You continue in every venue to equate her with suffering > when > > > she clearly states it is no longer there? So what suffering > > > person is there for another suffering person to cling to . > > > Talk about being blind and seeing only what you want . > How > > you > > > can twist what she says 180 degrees around is amazing. > > > > > > If I can find the old issue of inner traveler she speaks to this > > very > > > thing . > > > > > > The whole article may be found in the issue before last of > > other > > > Inner Traveler: These are simply small excerpts > > > > > > The thing is for people to wake up and see that it is they > > > themselves that create their own suffering. That is > > > what it is all about. , learning to confront yourself fully. Now > > this > > > isn't popular as people want some candy-coated treat and > > more > > > ego stroking. But that simply is not the way out of pain or the > > way > > > to solve anything. The only way out is in directly confronting > > your > > > own ego and self concepts. This is the hard reality. > > > > > > But you will find that those within their pain will simply for the > > > most part fight you tooth and nail, all the while shouting > about > > the > > > pain, but not being willing to give anything up to get out of it . > > The > > > monkey is trapped by its own desires even when facing > > death. > > > This is the ego mind. > > > > > > Self Enquiry is not just intellectually running through a list , it > > is in > > > your face pulling apart and diving within until there is > nothing > > left. > > > > > > The world seeks their own. You are comfortable around > > suffering > > > in that everyone can sit and relate to everyone else's pain. > > > Everyone can sit together and be long suffering and each > can > > > attempt to outdo the other with their pain and suffering > stories. > > > Then everyone says you have a right to feel the way you do , > > Poor > > > soul, a real pity party . Not easy to hear, but true. How do I > > know? > > > I used to be there too. > > > > > > (snipped for space) Want to get out ? Find someone that > has > > > tuned out of As the stomach turns? > > > > > > > > > It goes on with more, but suffice it to say I don't think that this > > is > > > someone that is promoting suffering in any way shape or > > form. > > > Nor do I find her to be one that allows anyone to cry on her > > > coattail. > > > > > > It seems that the picture you continue to try to paint of her > just > > > doesn't tally with what she says or apparently with the ones > > that > > > have met her in light of the posting by tony. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 Realization , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > Hi Tony, yes I understand, having a " good time " playing with Ganga or whoever and continually looking at your shit is one thing, but " waking the hell up " , is completly and totally unrelated to all of that. > > As Wayne puts it - > > " You " indulge " in self improvement > But all you have to show for it > Is an improved self. " > > And THAT is the game Ganga plays. The " self " improvement game. The " getting " something game. Once again that is a totally false assumption. I have never heard her speak for self improvement or doing self affirming mantras etc. It is so amazing that you turn what she is really teaching totally around to where it doesn't even resemble it in any way shape or forn. > > And for those of us that are not playing THAT game, she thinks our heads are up are asses. > > Obviously, she doesn't understand where some of us are coming from and she RAILS against us. > > Judi erstanding she > invariably demonstrates for each and every one of those " poor souls " , > but under no circumstance would I consider it to be anything like > being a " nurse-maid " to some " circle jerk " - as you have so > characterized it. :-) > > When one talks to Ganga about their particular " problem " it is > apparent that she has an intimate and thorough understanding of > exactly where that person is coming from, and although she will try > to help you to understand the reasons of why such a condition exists > for you, and even suggest certain " tools " that she thinks may be best > suited for you to remedy the particular mind-set that is holding you, > it is made absolutely clear that the person them self is the only one > who can actually do the work - or have the " understanding " , or > the " realization, which is imperative if one is going to ever be > liberated them from their condition. > > It is thoroughly explained that the real " problem " is only an > egotistical covering over the real " solution " , which indeed is > already there - so, in that sense, there is no real " future > psychological destination " or " additive psychological accumulation " , > but rather it is a " letting go " of a particular " mind-set " , and a > negation of those habitual egotistical tendencies, which are holding > one's suffering in place. > > And I pity the poor fool that tries to " cling " to Ganga, because I > have watched her chew one such person up one side and down the other > in such a way that would even make a sadistic judi in spikes, > ruthlessly whipping another to the bone, look like a cream-puff. > .... The message: " No clinging allowed - you must get out there and > do the work yourself - and quit whining! > > I hope you that you will be able to look past these words so you can > see directly what I am trying to convey to you, because in many ways > it is the very same message that you are constantly suggesting. > > Again, please don't take offense, and twist my words so as to miss > completely the underlying meaning of what I am trying to convey to > you, and then just retaliate by giving me one of those infamous > tongue-lashings of yours. :-) > And please don't just say there is nothing to do, no doer, and > nothing at all that any " one " needs to " realize " . > ... Because I think that to really " understand " is it important not > to just get caught up in the semantics of words and concepts. > > With love and affection, > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 <If you could see it through my eyes, it's the epitome of ignorance and stupidity.> You see what you want to see and what you want to indulge yourself in and ultimately and accidentally paint yourself as. Realization , " judirhodes " <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > Being a nurse-maid to suffering souls is one thing, " Understanding " > is quite another! Not even in the same book. Suffering souls need > other suffering souls to keep their game going. If you could see it > through my eyes, it's the epitome of ignorance and stupidity. > Circle jerk, no matter how you " color " it, it's nothing more. > > Like I said, understanding is another thing entirely. Not even on the > same " planet " . > > Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 - manjusrilotus Realization Saturday, April 19, 2003 10:57 PM Re: Who Is Ganga Karmokar? Realization , "Judi Rhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:> You go back through the posts for months, it's all there. And I'm not being evasive by saying that, it's just not worth it to me.> Because unless you know me and where I'm coming from, it would go right over your head anyways. > > JudiAnother famous sidestep. So funny everything is right over everyones head yet a perfectly legible posting was simply lettuce which you couldn't understand. Judi at this point you might try getting real. ********** See it as you want. No sidestepping involved. It's all there. You'd have to go through hundreds of posts. All I can say is that there were several of us that saw it and more importantly understand the game that Ganga is playing. There is nothing else to say. Like I just said in a previous post. Some of us are on the sofa with our feet up watching Ganga and her whole sad pathetic number. I see you are claiming to be running me in circles. Boy are you deluded. Yes indeed if any come here to really take a look for themselves a whole different picture might be seen. Just as if anyone actually looks at the exchanges at the Guru Satsang site they will see just what I just saw. While you say your last post was saying it was all bullshit the post was quite the contrary. You know your boasts will only hold water until someone actually just takes the time to look . Then guess what ? You will expose yourself . ******* I am not on the guru satsang site. I left, remember, the bullshit was too deep. And every now and then someone will email me some posts of hers from there, getting a laugh out of the number that she's running. What can I say, have yourself a ball! :-)) I'll be on the sofa having myself a scotch. Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 Realization , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > > > - > Judi Rhodes > Realization > Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:47 PM > Re: Re: Who Is Ganga Karmokar? > > > Hi Tony, yes I understand, having a " good time " playing with Ganga or whoever and continually looking at your shit is one thing, but " waking the hell up " , is completly and totally unrelated to all of that. > > As Wayne puts it - > > " You " indulge " in self improvement > But all you have to show for it > Is an improved self. " > > And THAT is the game Ganga plays. The " self " improvement game. The " getting " something game. > > And for those of us that are not playing THAT game, she thinks our heads are up are asses. > > Obviously, she doesn't understand where some of us are coming from and she RAILS against us. > > Judi > > ********** And for whatever it's worth to you Tony, know that some of us are laughing at you guys behind your back. > > Judi **** T: Hi Judi, I wish I could convey the misunderstandings and misconceptions that you appear you have about what is exactly happening in the guru/chela relationship, because it is altogether different than the assumptions you are making. I understand how if one has not had such a relationship, or if one only hears the description alone, that one could make the mistake of thinking that one would only be locked in some kind of dependent relationship, which engages one in a self-conscious endeavor of psychological becoming, and which only ends up solidifying " the me " , .... But in fact this it is actually not the case at all. The real " progress " is not more dependency or more self-conscious building up of the ego, and a polishing of this sense of an egotistical self through the " game " of " self-improvement " . It is not the sense that I am becoming more or better, or more spiritual, or even that I am getting out of my suffering. Neither it the sense of " me " having a " good time " playing so- called " spiritual games " getting stroked for the illusion doing good. In fact there is not even the sense that " I " have " understood " something, and that now I have evolved. There are only moments of direct perception in which no inward entity is there inside evaluating - trying to become something, or trying to get out of suffering, or even making judgments of any kind - that's all - simple. .... And it happens spontaneously, via ways and means, and intellectual understanding is not enough! I think that this is the value of meditation, or of ritual, or self-inquiry, etc. I think it is a melting away of this solidified sense of the egotistical self, with all the many problems, which are constantly being held in place by the suffering that is caused by its psychological struggles. .... It is not a self-conscious movement. I know you think you are on a different page than I am, and you may well be, but that doesn't necessarily mean that only you understand, and that I do not, or that you are superior and I am inferior. I think being on different pages implies a separation, which is caused by different egotistical mind-sets, .... But in direct perception there is direct contact and communion, without all these egotistical barriers. And those who would laugh at me behind my back are not my concern. I am not trying to maintain some favorable image of myself for anyone. I am only trying to share with you. With love and affection, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 > > > - > Judi Rhodes > Realization > Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:47 PM> Re: Re: Who Is Ganga Karmokar?> > > Hi Tony, yes I understand, having a "good time" playing with Ganga or whoever and continually looking at your shit is one thing, but "waking the hell up", is completly and totally unrelated to all of that. > > As Wayne puts it -> > "You "indulge" in self improvement> But all you have to show for it> Is an improved self."> > And THAT is the game Ganga plays. The "self" improvement game. The "getting" something game. > > And for those of us that are not playing THAT game, she thinks our heads are up are asses.> > Obviously, she doesn't understand where some of us are coming from and she RAILS against us. > > Judi> > ********** And for whatever it's worth to you Tony, know that some of us are laughing at you guys behind your back.> > Judi**** T: Hi Judi,I wish I could convey the misunderstandings and misconceptions that you appear you have about what is exactly happening in the guru/chela relationship, because it is altogether different than the assumptions you are making. I understand how if one has not had such a relationship, or if one only hears the description alone, that one could make the mistake of thinking that one would only be locked in some kind of dependent relationship, which engages one in a self-conscious endeavor of psychological becoming, and which only ends up solidifying "the me", ... But in fact this it is actually not the case at all.The real "progress" is not more dependency or more self-conscious building up of the ego, and a polishing of this sense of an egotistical self through the "game" of "self-improvement". It is not the sense that I am becoming more or better, or more spiritual, or even that I am getting out of my suffering. Neither it the sense of "me" having a "good time" playing so-called "spiritual games" getting stroked for the illusion doing good. In fact there is not even the sense that "I" have "understood" something, and that now I have evolved.There are only moments of direct perception in which no inward entity is there inside evaluating - trying to become something, or trying to get out of suffering, or even making judgments of any kind - that's all - simple. ... And it happens spontaneously, via ways and means, and intellectual understanding is not enough! I think that this is the value of meditation, or of ritual, or self-inquiry, etc. I think it is a melting away of this solidified sense of the egotistical self, with all the many problems, which are constantly being held in place by the suffering that is caused by its psychological struggles. ... It is not a self-conscious movement.I know you think you are on a different page than I am, and you may well be, but that doesn't necessarily mean that only you understand, and that I do not, or that you are superior and I am inferior. I think being on different pages implies a separation, which is caused by different egotistical mind-sets, ... But in direct perception there is direct contact and communion, without all these egotistical barriers.And those who would laugh at me behind my back are not my concern. I am not trying to maintain some favorable image of myself for anyone. I am only trying to share with you.With love and affection, ********** That's cool Tony, I appreciate your sharing. But like I said, I'm coming from a completely different place that doesn't involve any of that. You could say it's a total leap in understanding. It's like water and oil, they don't mix together. The whole dynamic is completely different. And of course I don't expect you to see that. And more importantly, it's not necessary that you do. And this "position", if you will, is not something to be envied or sought after. Like I said, it's out of that dynamic. There is nothing "gained" from it. Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 Realization , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > I've said over and over again, you either understand where I'm coming from or you don't. I can't convince you and I'm not of the mind to want to " convince " anybody of anything. If that's where you're at, that's where you're at. Her fear is understandable and I don't berate her or anyone for that, that's her level of maturity, but her lying I find a bit over the top. In some of the things that she's said it's just like that guy Bagdad Bob, boldface lying right to your face. What else can I say, I find it not only sad, but despicable and disgusting. And if you think I have my head up my ass for it, so be it, but it's where we part ways my friend. > > Judi I know what you mean. It's like Nasrudin in the town where the well water made everyone crazy. They were about to lynch him until he had a drink from the well -- then he was okay, because they were all speaking the same language. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 Realization , "Judi Rhodes" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:> I've said over and over again, you either understand where I'm coming from or you don't. I can't convince you and I'm not of the mind to want to "convince" anybody of anything. If that's where you're at, that's where you're at. Her fear is understandable and I don't berate her or anyone for that, that's her level of maturity, but her lying I find a bit over the top. In some of the things that she's said it's just like that guy Bagdad Bob, boldface lying right to your face. What else can I say, I find it not only sad, but despicable and disgusting. And if you think I have my head up my ass for it, so be it, but it's where we part ways my friend. > > JudiI know what you mean.It's like Nasrudin in the town where the well water made everyone crazy.They were about to lynch him until he had a drink from the well -- then he was okay, because they were all speaking the same language.-- Dan ******* Yes, it's a totally different language being spoken, so we can only part ways. They can drink to their hearts content from Ganga's well for all I care. :-) Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 I'll be on the sofa having myself a scotch. Judi Too bad Judi that you did not want to continue to do the work so that you would be in a permanent state of BLISS and not have to rely on chemicals to give you happiness. Love, Ramana Maharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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