Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 I'll be on the sofa having myself a scotch. Judi Too bad Judi that you did not want to continue to do the work so that you would be in a permanent state of BLISS and not have to rely on chemicals to give you happiness. Love, Ramana Maharshi ********* Yes, poor dear, she's a lost "cause". Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 Realization , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@z...> wrote: > > > > > > > - > > Judi Rhodes > > Realization > > Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:47 PM > > Re: Re: Who Is Ganga Karmokar? > > > > > > Hi Tony, yes I understand, having a " good time " playing with > Ganga or whoever and continually looking at your shit is one thing, > but " waking the hell up " , is completly and totally unrelated to all > of that. > > > > As Wayne puts it - > > > > " You " indulge " in self improvement > > But all you have to show for it > > Is an improved self. " > > > > And THAT is the game Ganga plays. The " self " improvement game. > The " getting " something game. > > > > And for those of us that are not playing THAT game, she thinks > our heads are up are asses. > > > > Obviously, she doesn't understand where some of us are coming > from and she RAILS against us. > > > > Judi > > > > ********** And for whatever it's worth to you Tony, know that > some of us are laughing at you guys behind your back. > > > > Judi > > > **** T: Hi Judi, > > I wish I could convey the misunderstandings and misconceptions that > you appear you have about what is exactly happening in the guru/chela > relationship, because it is altogether different than the assumptions > you are making. > > I understand how if one has not had such a relationship, or if one > only hears the description alone, that one could make the mistake of > thinking that one would only be locked in some kind of dependent > relationship, which engages one in a self-conscious endeavor of > psychological becoming, and which only ends up solidifying " the me " , > ... But in fact this it is actually not the case at all. > > The real " progress " is not more dependency or more self-conscious > building up of the ego, and a polishing of this sense of an > egotistical self through the " game " of " self-improvement " . It is not > the sense that I am becoming more or better, or more spiritual, or > even that I am getting out of my suffering. > > Neither it the sense of " me " having a " good time " playing so- > called " spiritual games " getting stroked for the illusion doing good. > In fact there is not even the sense that " I " have " understood " > something, and that now I have evolved. > > There are only moments of direct perception in which no inward entity > is there inside evaluating - trying to become something, or trying to > get out of suffering, or even making judgments of any kind - that's > all - simple. > ... And it happens spontaneously, via ways and means, and > intellectual understanding is not enough! I think that this is the > value of meditation, or of ritual, or self-inquiry, etc. > > I think it is a melting away of this solidified sense of the > egotistical self, with all the many problems, which are constantly > being held in place by the suffering that is caused by its > psychological struggles. > ... It is not a self-conscious movement. > > I know you think you are on a different page than I am, and you may > well be, but that doesn't necessarily mean that only you understand, > and that I do not, or that you are superior and I am inferior. > > I think being on different pages implies a separation, which is > caused by different egotistical mind-sets, > ... But in direct perception there is direct contact and communion, > without all these egotistical barriers. > > And those who would laugh at me behind my back are not my concern. I > am not trying to maintain some favorable image of myself for anyone. > I am only trying to share with you. > > With love and affection, > > > ********** That's cool Tony, I appreciate your sharing. But like I said, I'm coming from a completely different place that doesn't involve any of that. You could say it's a total leap in understanding. It's like water and oil, they don't mix together. The whole dynamic is completely different. And of course I don't expect you to see that. And more importantly, it's not necessary that you do. And this " position " , if you will, is not something to be envied or sought after. Like I said, it's out of that dynamic. There is nothing " gained " from it. > > Judi **** T: Yes, NO " peersonal gain " ! I think it is just the " loss " of this illusion of being a " one " who is better or worse or higher or lower - of a " someone " who THINKS they know or understand, or doesn't know or understand, something which a " someone " else does or does not know or understand, .... Because " it " is not a comparative value. I think this is the illusion caused by self-identified separation. However, the immediate and spontaneous realization of this is not necessarily negated through a " valid process " , which actually empties all egotistical accumulations, because otherwise one just stays caught, feeling trapped, thinking there is no way out and nothing that can be done. .... Not true! We remain separated and trapped as long as we are holding on to our self identified specialness, whether it be the specialness caused by the loop of our individualized self-pity and suffering, or the loop of our unique " spiritual " attainment - both are caught and neither are " out of that dynamic " . One cannot deny the facts without living in illusion. With love and affection, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 I'll be on the sofa having myself a scotch. Judi Too bad Judi that you did not want to continue to do the work so that you would be in a permanent state of BLISS and not have to rely on chemicals to give you happiness. Love, Ramana Maharshi ********* Yes, poor dear, she's a lost "cause". Judi Funny, I thought you were just an "effect". If not certainly affected. ROFL Maharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2003 Report Share Posted April 20, 2003 **** T: Yes, NO "peersonal gain"! I think it is just the "loss" of this illusion of being a "one" who is better or worse or higher or lower - of a "someone" who THINKS they know or understand, or doesn't know or understand, something which a "someone" else does or does not know or understand, ... Because "it" is not a comparative value. I think this is the illusion caused by self-identified separation.However, the immediate and spontaneous realization of this is not necessarily negated through a "valid process", which actually empties all egotistical accumulations, because otherwise one just stays caught, feeling trapped, thinking there is no way out and nothing that can be done.... Not true!We remain separated and trapped as long as we are holding on to our self identified specialness, whether it be the specialness caused by the loop of our individualized self-pity and suffering, or the loop of our unique "spiritual" attainment - both are caught and neither are "out of that dynamic".One cannot deny the facts without living in illusion.With love and affection, ******** "Holding" or "not holding" is the self same activity Tony. It's all but the "suffering" business of "being" somebody. There is no escape of it, it's not a matter of finally getting untrapped. It's impossible! It's an oxymoron. You don't finally get the carrot at the end. What carrot? Do you see what I mean? You're constantly creating your own carrot my friend. Tony is a carroting, Tony is a carroting, Tony is a carroting, la, la, la, la, la. :-) A little Easter song there for you. :-) Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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