Guest guest Posted September 28, 2003 Report Share Posted September 28, 2003 Dear Thomas: Thanks for being on this group. We need more "fully enlightened" beings in this world. Please continue to share that which can do the same for us? Love, Not a doubting AltonDear members of realization,After reading some articles,i noticed some confusion about Kundalini and Enlightenment.I have a few comments, in order to for clarification:The kundalini isn't an independent or cosmic force[at the level of non-dual realization],it coincides with pure awareness.When Sahaj Samadhi/Turiyatita is realized the godess is known to be the spirit-radiance of the enlightend state or love-bliss itself.Sahaj Samadhi is spontaneous,irreverseble and eternal;it associated with the Amrita-Nadi,the channel of bliss radiating from the right heart-center to the sahasar and from there to all the worlds.i myself am fully enlightend, and momentarily i've contacted Adidamfor recognition of this.Yours Sincerly,Thomas Ossel[santosha Buddha] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2003 Report Share Posted September 28, 2003 Realization , " THE CONTENTED ONE " <unbound@h...> wrote: > > Dear Thomas: > Thanks for being on this group. We need more " fully enlightened " beings in this world. > Please continue to share that which can do the same for us? > > Love, > Not a doubting Alton > > Dear members of realization, > > After reading some articles,i noticed some confusion about Kundalini > and Enlightenment.I have a few comments, in order to for > clarification: > > The kundalini isn't an independent or cosmic force[at the level of > non-dual realization],it coincides with pure awareness. > When Sahaj Samadhi/Turiyatita is realized the godess is known to be > the spirit-radiance of the enlightend state or love-bliss itself. > Sahaj Samadhi is spontaneous,irreverseble and eternal;it associated > with the Amrita-Nadi,the channel of bliss radiating from the right > heart-center to the sahasar and from there to all the worlds. > > i myself am fully enlightend, and momentarily i've contacted Adidam > for recognition of this. > > Yours Sincerly, > Thomas Ossel[santosha Buddha] Hang on a minute. I thought it was impossible for a 'person' to be 'fully enlightened'. I thought the 'person' was what is getting in the way of realising that there's no 'enlightenment' to be had. Could you explain what *you* mean by 'fully enlightened'? Like as if you were explaining it to an ignorant child? Tanya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2003 Report Share Posted September 28, 2003 > Dear Thomas:> Thanks for being on this group. We need more "fully enlightened" beings in this world.> Please continue to share that which can do the same for us?> > Love,> Not a doubting Alton> > Dear members of realization,> > After reading some articles,i noticed some confusion about Kundalini > and Enlightenment.I have a few comments, in order to for > clarification:> > The kundalini isn't an independent or cosmic force[at the level of > non-dual realization],it coincides with pure awareness.> When Sahaj Samadhi/Turiyatita is realized the godess is known to be > the spirit-radiance of the enlightend state or love-bliss itself.> Sahaj Samadhi is spontaneous,irreverseble and eternal;it associated > with the Amrita-Nadi,the channel of bliss radiating from the right > heart-center to the sahasar and from there to all the worlds.> > i myself am fully enlightend, and momentarily i've contacted Adidam> for recognition of this.> > Yours Sincerly,> Thomas Ossel[santosha Buddha]Hang on a minute. I thought it was impossible for a 'person' to be 'fully enlightened'. I thought the 'person' was what is getting in the way of realising that there's no 'enlightenment' to be had.Could you explain what *you* mean by 'fully enlightened'? Like as if you were explaining it to an ignorant child?Tanya. Dear Tanya: I trust that you wont beat me with a "catofninetales" for interjecting, because I probably would not get off on it. I think your request for Thomas to elaborate on his "concept" of enlightenemt is valid, but you need to know in my view, "fully enlightened" is not only a pardigm of the beholder, but also of those who accept the concept in the first place. Its all in someone's imagination and why would someone who is "fully enlightened" have to tell anyone? Since all our mental stuff has an undercurrent of "self interest", what Thomas replies is of great interest to me. Thanks for trying to wake up this group from a rest period. Love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Dear Alton, I'm going to clip a little piece from your message and respond to it, even though it wasn't your main point: > ...in my view, "fully enlightened" is not only a pardigm > of the beholder, but also of those who accept the concept > in the first place. Its all in someone's imagination.... I agree with you that many people believe in a version of enlightenment that is imaginary. They believe that enlightenment is such-and-such because the belief pleases them. They create their ideas about enlightenment from their own fantasies or from ideas they find in books. But if you believe, as I do, that enlightenment is a real phenomenon that has "happened" to particular people, then I think you have to admit that it can be defined and discussed objectively. If you agree, for example, that Ramana Maharshi was enlightened, then we can point to him and say, "Enlightenment is the state that Ramana Maharshi was in." We can read his talks and the memoirs that were written about him by people who knew him, and thereby learn something about enlightenment that is more than imaginary. Alternatively, if you don't think we can point to particular individuals and say with reasonable accuracy that they are enlightened, then why are you interested in this stuff? Regards, Rob - THE CONTENTED ONE Realization Sunday, September 28, 2003 9:37 PM Re: Re: Sahaj Samadhi/Perfect Enlightenment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Ramana Maharshi had a path that he walked, as did Jesus, Buddha, Hitler, Attila the Hun, Rob and Carol and Alton. I believe that each of these paths was the correct one for that individual, and for that individual's learning and "enlightenment". I think this plane is a school, when there are a variety of subjects to learn, some involving light, but you need the dark to contrast with the light. Alton may be interested in this stuff because he is learning something peripheral from the main point, just as you chose a passage from his e-mail that was peripheral from his main point. I'm not criticizing either of you, just throwing in my $.02. Gelf ---- Realization Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:45:46 AM Realization Re: Re: Sahaj Samadhi/Perfect Enlightenment Dear Alton, I'm going to clip a little piece from your message and respond to it, even though it wasn't your main point: > ...in my view, "fully enlightened" is not only a pardigm > of the beholder, but also of those who accept the concept > in the first place. Its all in someone's imagination.... I agree with you that many people believe in a version of enlightenment that is imaginary. They believe that enlightenment is such-and-such because the belief pleases them. They create their ideas about enlightenment from their own fantasies or from ideas they find in books. But if you believe, as I do, that enlightenment is a real phenomenon that has "happened" to particular people, then I think you have to admit that it can be defined and discussed objectively. If you agree, for example, that Ramana Maharshi was enlightened, then we can point to him and say, "Enlightenment is the state that Ramana Maharshi was in." We can read his talks and the memoirs that were written about him by people who knew him, and thereby learn something about enlightenment that is more than imaginary. Alternatively, if you don't think we can point to particular individuals and say with reasonable accuracy that they are enlightened, then why are you interested in this stuff? Regards, Rob - THE CONTENTED ONE Realization Sunday, September 28, 2003 9:37 PM Re: Re: Sahaj Samadhi/Perfect Enlightenment ...........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Realization , " Carol Philo " <cphilo@k...> wrote: Just taking one of your peripheral points in a snip here. > I think this plane > is a school, I don't. I think it is much more like the playground only less dangerous. Tanya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Dear Rob: I wish you corrected my misspelled paradigm. The spell check does not correct replies unless you do select all. LOL. Ok: This is the way I now see enlightenment. I don't claim that mine is the only right view. I accept other renditions of enlightenment. Enlightenment is like all other mental states. It is on a gradient, more or less. Ramana may have been the highest of the high, but he did not reach the ultimate, because there is no ultimate state of enlightenment. There is always a continuing process going on which enables evolution of consciousness to higher and higher levels. There is no possibility of reaching the highest level because it is infinite and has no endpoint. It would have been terrific if Ramana was alive today and submitted to "functional MRI's" Then we could really know what was going on in his consciousness and could then rate him against others who were tested. The philosophers and spiritual pundits used to claim that mental states would not show up on technology and now they have been proved wrong. I have been on an "enlightenment quest" for more than twenty years and finally realized that enlightenment is not like turning on a light switch and seeing light. I know that you and others here will disagree with my conclusions, but that is how I now see enlightenment. I am not gifted in this area so even though enlightenment may be like switching on a light, it wont happen for me probably for many lifetimes. It is like music. I trained for 14 years practicing all day long and it was impossible for me to achieve what some gifted 10 old could do in one year. Ramana and others like him came in with those "gifts" and most of the seekers who are not gifted can only evolve and a snails pace no matter how much effort they make. Don't get me wrong. I think meditation is something valuable for keeping the brains neurons in order and to be able to center oneself when an unpleasant event arises. Love, Alton Dear Alton, I'm going to clip a little piece from your message and respond to it, even though it wasn't your main point: > ...in my view, "fully enlightened" is not only a pardigm > of the beholder, but also of those who accept the concept > in the first place. Its all in someone's imagination.... I agree with you that many people believe in a version of enlightenment that is imaginary. They believe that enlightenment is such-and-such because the belief pleases them. They create their ideas about enlightenment from their own fantasies or from ideas they find in books. But if you believe, as I do, that enlightenment is a real phenomenon that has "happened" to particular people, then I think you have to admit that it can be defined and discussed objectively. If you agree, for example, that Ramana Maharshi was enlightened, then we can point to him and say, "Enlightenment is the state that Ramana Maharshi was in." We can read his talks and the memoirs that were written about him by people who knew him, and thereby learn something about enlightenment that is more than imaginary. Alternatively, if you don't think we can point to particular individuals and say with reasonable accuracy that they are enlightened, then why are you interested in this stuff? Regards, Rob - THE CONTENTED ONE Realization Sunday, September 28, 2003 9:37 PM Re: Re: Sahaj Samadhi/Perfect Enlightenment ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Dear Gelf: I think you have more than 2 cents, probably because I copy what you posted. Love, Alton Ramana Maharshi had a path that he walked, as did Jesus, Buddha, Hitler, Attila the Hun, Rob and Carol and Alton. I believe that each of these paths was the correct one for that individual, and for that individual's learning and "enlightenment". I think this plane is a school, when there are a variety of subjects to learn, some involving light, but you need the dark to contrast with the light. Alton may be interested in this stuff because he is learning something peripheral from the main point, just as you chose a passage from his e-mail that was peripheral from his main point. I'm not criticizing either of you, just throwing in my $.02. Gelf ---- Realization Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:45:46 AM Realization Re: Re: Sahaj Samadhi/Perfect Enlightenment Dear Alton, I'm going to clip a little piece from your message and respond to it, even though it wasn't your main point: > ...in my view, "fully enlightened" is not only a pardigm > of the beholder, but also of those who accept the concept > in the first place. Its all in someone's imagination.... I agree with you that many people believe in a version of enlightenment that is imaginary. They believe that enlightenment is such-and-such because the belief pleases them. They create their ideas about enlightenment from their own fantasies or from ideas they find in books. But if you believe, as I do, that enlightenment is a real phenomenon that has "happened" to particular people, then I think you have to admit that it can be defined and discussed objectively. If you agree, for example, that Ramana Maharshi was enlightened, then we can point to him and say, "Enlightenment is the state that Ramana Maharshi was in." We can read his talks and the memoirs that were written about him by people who knew him, and thereby learn something about enlightenment that is more than imaginary. Alternatively, if you don't think we can point to particular individuals and say with reasonable accuracy that they are enlightened, then why are you interested in this stuff? Regards, Rob -- st __ ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Hey, Contented One, You said my input on this discussion of sorts is welcome. So, input you get, haha, and I pasted, too.. Read what the guy wrote: " The kundalini isn't an independent or cosmic force[at the level of non-dual realization],it coincides with pure awareness. When Sahaj Samadhi/Turiyatita is realized the godess is known to be the spirit-radiance of the enlightend state or love-bliss itself. Sahaj Samadhi is spontaneous,irreverseble and eternal;it associated with the Amrita-Nadi,the channel of bliss radiating from the right heart-center to the sahasar and from there to all the worlds. " Now, I'm not exactly resonating with the part about all the worlds, but the rest I agree with 100%. Sahaj Samadhi/Turiyatita are foreign words to me but I know what he's talking about. When this happens, it isn't something that might be missed. It isn't a bit o bliss or a bit of pressure in the spine or at some site and it isn't even the stilling of the mind. It is spontaneous, sudden, and unexpected. The right heart center feels as if it has been entered by the goddess or if you're a Christian, the holy spirit. Then, this radiant love lifts you upward into the golden presence where a certain melting and clarity reveals the nature of the spirit and world. Like I said, it's very real, there is no dreamlike quality to it and no kind of sort of. But, I know your real question is does that make a person 100% realized or enlightened? I noticed the guy who wrote that didn't say why he thought he was so I don't know whether he thinks it does or doesn't. I'd tell you more if I could, but I'm sure I don't know anything about what it means to be 100% enlightened. I tend to think more like you do and believe that we never stop learning and expanding, like little universes. I also believe that this learning and stuff is not a linear thing so that you'll find people that are way wiser or more loving than people who have witnessed the naked spiritual world, so it isn't a goal. People are first these spiritual energies and sometimes, for whatever reason, they lose the world picture and revert back. But, that doesn't make a person any more knowledgeable about the world and it doesn't mean that everyone else is made of some lessor spiritual stuff. If anything, the view shows that everyone is made of the same stuff and just beneath the surface, we all know exactly what we are. Realization , " THE CONTENTED ONE " <unbound@h...> wrote: > Dear Gelf: > I think you have more than 2 cents, probably because I copy what you posted. > > Love, > Alton > > > Ramana Maharshi had a path that he walked, as did Jesus, Buddha, Hitler, Attila the Hun, Rob and Carol and Alton. > I believe that each of these paths was the correct one for that individual, and for that individual's learning and " enlightenment " . I think this plane is a school, when there are a variety of subjects to learn, some involving light, but you need the dark to contrast with the light. > Alton may be interested in this stuff because he is learning something peripheral from the main point, just as you chose a passage from his e-mail that was peripheral from his main point. > I'm not criticizing either of you, just throwing in my $.02. > Gelf > > ---- > > Realization > Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:45:46 AM > Realization > Re: Re: Sahaj Samadhi/Perfect Enlightenment > > Dear Alton, > > I'm going to clip a little piece from your message and > respond to it, even though it wasn't your main point: > > > ...in my view, " fully enlightened " is not only a pardigm > > of the beholder, but also of those who accept the concept > > in the first place. Its all in someone's imagination.... > > I agree with you that many people believe in a version > of enlightenment that is imaginary. They believe that > enlightenment is such-and-such because the belief > pleases them. They create their ideas about enlightenment > from their own fantasies or from ideas they find in books. > > But if you believe, as I do, that enlightenment is a real > phenomenon that has " happened " to particular people, > then I think you have to admit that it can be defined and > discussed objectively. If you agree, for example, that > Ramana Maharshi was enlightened, then we can point to > him and say, " Enlightenment is the state that Ramana > Maharshi was in. " We can read his talks and the memoirs > that were written about him by people who knew him, and > thereby learn something about enlightenment that is more > than imaginary. > > Alternatively, if you don't think we can point to particular > individuals and say with reasonable accuracy that they > are enlightened, then why are you interested in this stuff? > > Regards, > > Rob > > > > > -- > > > > > st > > > > > __ > > ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Ah. the other side of the circle. Agreed. At all times. one should be learning or having fun. I try and combine the two :} There is just SOOO much here to enjoy (and laugh at) once you figure out that it is all smoke and mirrors :} Gelf ---- Realization Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:44:14 AM Realization Re: Sahaj Samadhi/Perfect Enlightenment Realization , "Carol Philo" <cphilo@k...> wrote: Just taking one of your peripheral points in a snip here. > I think this plane > is a school, I don't. I think it is much more like the playground only less dangerous. Tanya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Realization , " Carol Philo " <cphilo@k...> wrote: Who on earth said playgrounds were fun?! > Ah. the other side of the circle. > Agreed. > At all times. one should be learning or having fun. > I try and combine the two :} There is just SOOO much here to enjoy (and > laugh at) once you figure out that it is all smoke and mirrors :} > Gelf > > ---- > > Realization > Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:44:14 AM > Realization > Re: Sahaj Samadhi/Perfect Enlightenment > > Realization , " Carol Philo " <cphilo@k...> wrote: > > Just taking one of your peripheral points in a snip here. > > > I think this plane > > is a school, > > I don't. I think it is much more like the playground only less > dangerous. > > Tanya. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Hi, Ossel " <dirkbroeder@h...> wrote: > Dear members of realization, > > After reading some articles,i noticed some confusion about Kundalini > and Enlightenment.I have a few comments, in order to for > clarification: > > The kundalini isn't an independent or cosmic force[at the level of > non-dual realization],it coincides with pure awareness. > When Sahaj Samadhi/Turiyatita is realized the godess is known to be > the spirit-radiance of the enlightend state or love-bliss itself. > Sahaj Samadhi is spontaneous,irreverseble and eternal;it associated > with the Amrita-Nadi,the channel of bliss radiating from the right > heart-center to the sahasar and from there to all the worlds. > > i myself am fully enlightend, and momentarily i've contacted Adidam > for recognition of this. > > Yours Sincerly, > Thomas Ossel[santosha Buddha] do you lnow Adidam? he fascinates me I'll post his seventh stage enlightenment what sadna did you do if any? which Buddhism? love, Karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2003 Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 Realization , " Tanya Davis " <tanyarowan@h...> wrote: > Realization , " Carol Philo " <cphilo@k...> wrote: > > Just taking one of your peripheral points in a snip here. > > > I think this plane > > is a school, > > I don't. I think it is much more like the playground only less > dangerous. > > Tanya. devi: hi everyone...i think that this planet is the place to come when you are ready and able to get *god-realzied* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2003 Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 Realization , " THE CONTENTED ONE " <unbound@h...> wrote: > Dear Rob: > I wish you corrected my misspelled paradigm. The spell check does not correct replies unless you do select all. LOL. > > Ok: This is the way I now see enlightenment. I don't claim that mine is the only right view. I accept other renditions of enlightenment. devi: oh good, > > Enlightenment is like all other mental states. devi: enlightenement is like no other mental state It is on a gradient, more or less. devi: enlightenement=self-realiztion=god-realzition is a specific eventment to a specific non-event, it is realization of the Self. it is going beyond the three waking states into the forth which i've learned us the turyata state.. (spelling might be wrong) Ramana may have been the highest of the high, but he did not reach the ultimate, devi: who did? because there is no ultimate state of enlightenment. devi: can you give an example of someone who was higher than ramana? i know that around the meher baba circles, ramana was only a 6th plane saint, whereas meher baba was a seventh plane realizer. as was There is always a continuing process going on which enables evolution of consciousness to higher and higher levels. There is no possibility of reaching the highest level because it is infinite and has no endpoint. devi: and you know this how? > > It would have been terrific if Ramana was alive today and submitted to " functional MRI's " Then we could really know what was going on in his consciousness and could then rate him against others who were tested. The philosophers and spiritual pundits used to claim that mental states would not show up on technology and now they have been proved wrong. > > I have been on an " enlightenment quest " for more than twenty years and finally realized that enlightenment is not like turning on a light switch and seeing light. I know that you and others here will disagree with my conclusions, but that is how I now see enlightenment. > > I am not gifted in this area so even though enlightenment may be like switching on a light, it wont happen for me probably for many lifetimes. devi: it won't happen to you because you don't have the faith, and your attached to someone It is like music. I trained for 14 years practicing all day long and it was impossible for me to achieve what some gifted 10 old could do in one year. > > Ramana and others like him came in with those " gifts " and most of the seekers who are not gifted can only evolve and a snails pace no matter how much effort they make. > > Don't get me wrong. I think meditation is something valuable for keeping the brains neurons in order and to be able to center oneself when an unpleasant event arises. > > Love, > Alton hi alton,,seriously, faith is an important ingrediant to the process...love to you > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 Dear Devi: Sorry for the delayed response. Computer had a worm. Out of commission for many stressful days. All better now. See below for some comments. Realization , "THE CONTENTED ONE" <unbound@h...> wrote:> Dear Rob:> I wish you corrected my misspelled paradigm. The spell check does not correct replies unless you do select all. LOL.> > Ok: This is the way I now see enlightenment. I don't claim that mine is the only right view. I accept other renditions of enlightenment.devi: oh good, > > Enlightenment is like all other mental states. devi: enlightenement is like no other mental stateIt is on a gradient, more or less. devi: enlightenement=self-realiztion=god-realzition is a specific eventment to a specific non-event, it is realization of the Self. it is going beyond the three waking states into the forth which i've learned us the turyata state.. (spelling might be wrong) I'll ask you the some question that you asked below. How do you know this? Most of what we read is corrupted hearsay and someone's programmed consciousness emoting. Ramana may have been the highest of the high, but he did not reach the ultimate, devi: who did? No one because the ultimate is just a concept and concepts can be preemted by the next concept.because there is no ultimate state of enlightenment.devi: can you give an example of someone who was higher than ramana? i know that around the meher baba circles, ramana was only a 6th plane saint, whereas meher baba was a seventh plane realizer. as was When I said that Ramana was the highest, I meant that he was a nice person and I know that the Ramana devotees would like that and ingratiate Alton . LOLThere is always a continuing process going on which enables evolution of consciousness to higher and higher levels. There is no possibility of reaching the highest level because it is infinite and has no endpoint. devi: and you know this how? The same answer above applies to me. Everything anyone says in not real but the spin that is placed on their unique conditioning. As far as I can see and imagine, there is no end to anything. Hey my opinion is just as valid as anyone elses.> > It would have been terrific if Ramana was alive today and submitted to "functional MRI's" Then we could really know what was going on in his consciousness and could then rate him against others who were tested. The philosophers and spiritual pundits used to claim that mental states would not show up on technology and now they have been proved wrong. > > I have been on an "enlightenment quest" for more than twenty years and finally realized that enlightenment is not like turning on a light switch and seeing light. I know that you and others here will disagree with my conclusions, but that is how I now see enlightenment.> > I am not gifted in this area so even though enlightenment may be like switching on a light, it wont happen for me probably for many lifetimes. devi: it won't happen to you because you don't have the faith, and your attached to someone That is pure bull. Most of the great things that have happened in my life are due to my negativity. Goddess likes to prove me wrong. I align myself with the "crape hanger" faction which is always a win win situation. hehehe Love, Alton It is like music. I trained for 14 years practicing all day long and it was impossible for me to achieve what some gifted 10 old could do in one year.> > Ramana and others like him came in with those "gifts" and most of the seekers who are not gifted can only evolve and a snails pace no matter how much effort they make.> > Don't get me wrong. I think meditation is something valuable for keeping the brains neurons in order and to be able to center oneself when an unpleasant event arises.> > Love,> Altonhi alton,,seriously, faith is an important ingrediant to the process...love to you > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 > > > > Ok: This is the way I now see enlightenment. I don't claim that > mine is the only right view. I accept other renditions of > enlightenment. > > devi: oh good, > > > > Enlightenment is like all other mental states. > > devi: enlightenement is like no other mental state > > It is on a gradient, more or less. > > devi: enlightenement=self-realiztion=god-realzition is a specific > eventment to a specific non-event, it is realization of the Self. it > is going beyond the three waking states into the forth which i've > learned us the turyata state.. (spelling might be wrong) > I'll ask you the some question that you asked below. > How do you know this? devi: i don't like that question Most of what we read is corrupted hearsay and someone's programmed consciousness emoting. devi: i don't think that the people and books i've studied are corrupted, i think that i've gone to the purest of sourses, baba hari dass, patanjili yoga sutras, the ancient vedic scriptures, ramana...meher baba...even adida...and bottom line i had faith and believed up to a certain point but ultimitly knew and know that direst experinecec was/is the final proof. > > > > Ramana may have been the highest of the high, but he did not reach the ultimate, > > devi: who did? > > No one because the ultimate is just a concept and concepts can be preemted by the next concept. devi: its only concept only until it is real... > > because there is no ultimate state of enlightenment. devi: there is....its called Self-realzition or God-realzition,,.once someone a long time ago got to this place for lack of a better word and came back and said, oh, this i'll call enlightenment..or nirvana or nirvikalpa samadi.there is no ultimate end because of the eternal nature of God, but God-realzition or Self-realzition is the end of ignorance..it the end of one way of being and the beginning of a new way....its' not the end of life...there is no end to life, not in the biggest sense... > > devi: can you give an example of someone who was higher than ramana? > i know that around the meher baba circles, ramana was only a 6th > plane saint, whereas meher baba was a seventh plane realizer. as was > > When I said that Ramana was the highest, I meant that he was a nice person and I know that the Ramana devotees would like that and ingratiate Alton . LOL devi: oh... > > > There is always a continuing process going on which enables > evolution of consciousness to higher and higher levels. There is no > possibility of reaching the highest level because it is infinite and > has no endpoint. > > devi: and you know this how? > > The same answer above applies to me. Everything anyone says in not real but the spin that is placed on their unique conditioning. As far as I can see and imagine, there is no end to anything. Hey my opinion is just as valid as anyone elses. devi: as adults i would think that we can express ourselves without condemnation,, in response to your,,there is no end...i have to say, that there is an end to *not knowing the ultimate truth about yourself* but again theres no end to God becasue God was never created so God won't ever be destroyed..> > > > It would have been terrific if Ramana was alive today and submitted to " functional MRI's " Then we could really know what was going on in > his consciousness and could then rate him against others who were > tested. The philosophers and spiritual pundits used to claim that > mental states would not show up on technology and now they have been > proved wrong. > > > > I have been on an " enlightenment quest " for more than twenty years > and finally realized that enlightenment is not like turning on a > light switch and seeing light. I know that you and others here will > disagree with my conclusions, but that is how I now see enlightenment. > > > > I am not gifted in this area so even though enlightenment may be > like switching on a light, it wont happen for me probably for many > lifetimes. > > devi: it won't happen to you because you don't have the faith, and > your attached to someone > > > That is pure bull. Most of the great things that have happened in my life are due to my negativity. Goddess likes to prove me wrong. I align myself with the " crape hanger " faction which is always a win win situation. hehehe devi: ok, whatever you say...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Realization , " TRADER-IN-THE-LIGHT " <unbound@h...> wrote: > Dear Devi: > Sorry for the delayed response. Computer had a worm. Out of commission for many stressful days. > All better now. See below for some comments. > > > > Realization , " THE CONTENTED ONE " > <unbound@h...> wrote: > > Dear Rob: > > I wish you corrected my misspelled paradigm. The spell check does > not correct replies unless you do select all. LOL. > > > > Ok: This is the way I now see enlightenment. I don't claim that > mine is the only right view. I accept other renditions of > enlightenment. > > devi: oh good, > > > > Enlightenment is like all other mental states. > > devi: enlightenement is like no other mental state > > It is on a gradient, more or less. > > devi: enlightenement=self-realiztion=god-realzition is a specific > eventment to a specific non-event, it is realization of the Self. it > is going beyond the three waking states into the forth which i've > learned us the turyata state.. (spelling might be wrong) > I'll ask you the some question that you asked below. > How do you know this? Most of what we read is corrupted hearsay and someone's programmed consciousness emoting. > > > > Ramana may have been the highest of the high, but he did not reach > the ultimate, > > devi: who did? > > No one because the ultimate is just a concept and concepts can be preemted by the next concept. > > because there is no ultimate state of enlightenment. > > devi: can you give an example of someone who was higher than ramana? > i know that around the meher baba circles, ramana was only a 6th > plane saint, whereas meher baba was a seventh plane realizer. as was > > When I said that Ramana was the highest, I meant that he was a nice person and I know that the Ramana devotees would like that and ingratiate Alton . LOL > > > There is always a continuing process going on which enables > evolution of consciousness to higher and higher levels. There is no > possibility of reaching the highest level because it is infinite and > has no endpoint. > > devi: and you know this how? > > The same answer above applies to me. Everything anyone says in not real but the spin that is placed on their unique conditioning. As far as I can see and imagine, there is no end to anything. Hey my opinion is just as valid as anyone elses. *********From the Big Bang, to the point at which the universal gravity catches up with the expansion and it all begins to collapse again, eventually merging together in the Big Crunch...is just God breathing in and out. :-) Tanya. > > > > It would have been terrific if Ramana was alive today and submitted > to " functional MRI's " Then we could really know what was going on in > his consciousness and could then rate him against others who were > tested. The philosophers and spiritual pundits used to claim that > mental states would not show up on technology and now they have been > proved wrong. > > > > I have been on an " enlightenment quest " for more than twenty years > and finally realized that enlightenment is not like turning on a > light switch and seeing light. I know that you and others here will > disagree with my conclusions, but that is how I now see enlightenment. > > > > I am not gifted in this area so even though enlightenment may be > like switching on a light, it wont happen for me probably for many > lifetimes. > > devi: it won't happen to you because you don't have the faith, and > your attached to someone > > > That is pure bull. Most of the great things that have happened in my life are due to my negativity. Goddess likes to prove me wrong. I align myself with the " crape hanger " faction which is always a win win situation. hehehe > Love, > Alton > > > > It is like music. I trained for 14 years practicing all day long and > it was impossible for me to achieve what some gifted 10 old could do > in one year. > > > > Ramana and others like him came in with those " gifts " and most of > the seekers who are not gifted can only evolve and a snails pace no > matter how much effort they make. > > > > Don't get me wrong. I think meditation is something valuable for > keeping the brains neurons in order and to be able to center oneself > when an unpleasant event arises. > > > > Love, > > Alton > > hi alton,,seriously, faith is an important ingrediant to the > process...love to you > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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