Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Does it matter? Karta said something, today, that has been pretty much agreed with by all the great masters. There might very well be no more than one or two people living on earth who is really enlightened. There is something that is for all people, though, that might be thought of as god-realization in that it allows for experiential knowledge of what god is. To know it, you have to believe that you can and ask with 100% open mind. Studying everything that had ever been said on the subject can make that hard to do. You can't give yourself your own answer unless you want the god of reason to answer you but you can figure out how to formulate the question. You just have to be exactly where you are in exactly the moment you are there. Break down whatever you thought was there with you. Let the sounds of be just vibrations in space. Let the sight of be just the light. Separate your words from your emotions so that neither can give reality to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 There might very well be no more than one or two people living on earth who is really enlightened. devi: when i tell my husband about the thousand or so Gurus or Enlightened beings on Sarlos list he laughs, he thinks all are stilll deluded..meher baba says that there are only 56 enlightened beings on the planet at all times...my husband believes that,,i did to up until a year ago. now, i really think that there are thousands > > There is something that is for all people, though, that might be > thought of as god-realization in that it allows for experiential > knowledge of what god is. devi: experiientail knowledge of what God Is is God-realiztion... To know it, you have to believe that you > can and ask with 100% open mind. devi: so so true, total faith that it can happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Realization , " devianandi " <devi@p...> wrote: > There might very well be no more than one or two people living on > earth who is really enlightened. > > devi: when i tell my husband about the thousand or so Gurus or > Enlightened beings on Sarlos list he laughs, he thinks all are stilll > deluded..meher baba says that there are only 56 enlightened beings on > the planet at all times...my husband believes that,,i did to up until > a year ago. now, i really think that there are thousands > > > > > > > There is something that is for all people, though, that might be > > thought of as god-realization in that it allows for experiential > > knowledge of what god is. > > devi: experiientail knowledge of what God Is is God-realiztion... > > > To know it, you have to believe that you > > can and ask with 100% open mind. > > devi: so so true, total faith that it can happen OK, but then there's the definition of enlightenment that I hear that goes something like this: The enlightened person has moved beyond all conditioning. In other words, those besides the 56 respond within a range of patterns and just knowing that we do and knowing that none are the " real " self and even knowing the Presence that does not change (as all who ask with an open mind are free to do)...none of that makes a person enlightened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Realization , " Onniko " <onniko> wrote: > Realization , " devianandi " <devi@p...> wrote: > > There might very well be no more than one or two people living on > > earth who is really enlightened. > > > > devi: when i tell my husband about the thousand or so Gurus or > > Enlightened beings on Sarlos list he laughs, he thinks all are > stilll > > deluded..meher baba says that there are only 56 enlightened beings > on > > the planet at all times...my husband believes that,,i did to up > until > > a year ago. now, i really think that there are thousands > > > > > > > > > > > > There is something that is for all people, though, that might > be > > > thought of as god-realization in that it allows for experiential > > > knowledge of what god is. > > > > devi: experiientail knowledge of what God Is is God-realiztion... > > > > > > To know it, you have to believe that you > > > can and ask with 100% open mind. > > > > devi: so so true, total faith that it can happen > >oniki: OK, but then there's the definition of enlightenment that I hear that goes something like this: The enlightened person has moved beyond all conditioning. devi: that statement is new to me, i just read it on the interent recently..in other words it's never come up in any of my readings...by any other *realziers* except maybe bubbha free john oniko:In other words, those besides the 56 respond within a range of patterns devi: i guess you could say that oniko:just knowing that we do and knowing that none are the " real " self and even knowing the Presence > that does not change (as all who ask with an open mind are free to > do)...none of that makes a person enlightened. devi: i lost you here...none of what makes a person enlightened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 Realization , " Onniko " <onniko> wrote: > Realization , " devianandi " <devi@p...> wrote: > > There might very well be no more than one or two people living on > > earth who is really enlightened. > > > > devi: when i tell my husband about the thousand or so Gurus or > > Enlightened beings on Sarlos list he laughs, he thinks all are > stilll > > deluded..meher baba says that there are only 56 enlightened beings > on > > the planet at all times...my husband believes that,,i did to up > until > > a year ago. now, i really think that there are thousands > > > > > > > > > > > > There is something that is for all people, though, that might > be > > > thought of as god-realization in that it allows for experiential > > > knowledge of what god is. > > > > devi: experiientail knowledge of what God Is is God-realiztion... > > > > > > To know it, you have to believe that you > > > can and ask with 100% open mind. > > > > devi: so so true, total faith that it can happen > > OK, but then there's the definition of enlightenment that I hear > that goes something like this: The enlightened person has moved > beyond all conditioning. In other words, those besides the 56 > respond within a range of patterns and just knowing that we do and > knowing that none are the " real " self and even knowing the Presence > that does not change (as all who ask with an open mind are free to > do)...none of that makes a person enlightened. Oniko, I also didn't get the full meaning of what you wrote eg 1. the way you use the " self " or real self 2. the way you refer to the 'Presence' have you ever met an enlightened being? [not one in your terminology: that everyone is enlightened] or a rock star they have un deniable presence usually within 'spiritual' exchanges the " self " talked about is the Ramana's Self at least that is what I think Devi is referring to but for me her way of wording is also confusing because what happened to Ramana was, thet he 'lost' all the selves [small self] and became uniquely enlightened ...not realized the self as Devi words it I don't understand [could be my English] <grin> I sense, that she means that the Self with capital 'S' is synonymous with God so she would say: Ramana realized God maybe Devi would like to clear this up also, here which is an other forum. love, Karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 Realization , " Era " <mi_nok> wrote: > Realization , " Onniko " <onniko> wrote: > > Realization , " devianandi " <devi@p...> wrote: > > > There might very well be no more than one or two people living on > > > earth who is really enlightened. > > > > > > devi: when i tell my husband about the thousand or so Gurus or > > > Enlightened beings on Sarlos list he laughs, he thinks all are > > stilll > > > deluded..meher baba says that there are only 56 enlightened beings > > on > > > the planet at all times...my husband believes that,,i did to up > > until > > > a year ago. now, i really think that there are thousands > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is something that is for all people, though, that might > > be > > > > thought of as god-realization in that it allows for experiential > > > > knowledge of what god is. > > > > > > devi: experiientail knowledge of what God Is is God- realiztion... > > > > > > > > > To know it, you have to believe that you > > > > can and ask with 100% open mind. > > > > > > devi: so so true, total faith that it can happen > > > > OK, but then there's the definition of enlightenment that I hear > > that goes something like this: The enlightened person has moved > > beyond all conditioning. In other words, those besides the 56 > > respond within a range of patterns and just knowing that we do and > > knowing that none are the " real " self and even knowing the Presence > > that does not change (as all who ask with an open mind are free to > > do)...none of that makes a person enlightened. > > > Oniko, > > I also didn't get the full meaning of > what you wrote > > eg > > 1. the way you use the " self " or real > self It is confusing because the same words are used for more than one meaning. There, I used any pattern as a self which will always change as patterns do. The Presence is not the same that a rock star or charismatic person gives off and not the same as the spiritual/sexual surges of energy that some call kundalini. It is everywhere and all reality floats on it like oil on water. It is the smooth silent snow that the program is formed on when the tv is turned on. That's why all people have to know it. We are it. It can be followed to a point, then it draws us into it like we are steel and get too close to a magnet. But, that's just from the human view because we just revert back to our natural state and at a certain point we can't hold a shape so we feel the draw in the end. It is the same way when the Holy Spirit comes in to us. No matter what religeon or none, it is the same from the human vantage point if you're aware of your body at the time. It comes in from the back and to the right of the heart area like a great stamp of female love that erases the colors and quickly swoops upward into a shower of burning gold that seems to turn on every pathway of awareness at once and then joins the love to be like living light which spreads and smooths outward until it covers the world and the world is revealed to be oneself and all bounderies of inside and outside are brought down. So, what I mean when I say patterns, is any form even our own body and even our own thoughts. Presence refers to the last part of the description. > 2. the way you refer to the 'Presence' > > have you ever met an enlightened being? > > [not one in your terminology: that everyone is enlightened] > > or a rock star they have un deniable > presence > > usually within 'spiritual' exchanges > the " self " talked about is the Ramana's > Self > > at least that is what I think Devi is > referring to > > but for me her way of wording is also > confusing > > because what happened to Ramana was, > thet he 'lost' all the selves [small > self] and became uniquely enlightened > ..not realized the self as Devi words it > I don't understand > > [could be my English] <grin> > > I sense, that she means that the Self > with capital 'S' is synonymous with God > > so she would say: Ramana realized God > > maybe Devi would like to clear this > up also, here which is an other forum. > > love, Karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 > > > OK, but then there's the definition of enlightenment that I hear > > > that goes something like this: The enlightened person has moved > > > beyond all conditioning. In other words, those besides the 56 > > > respond within a range of patterns and just knowing that we do > and > > > knowing that none are the " real " self and even knowing the > Presence > > > that does not change (as all who ask with an open mind are free > to > > > do)...none of that makes a person enlightened. > > > > > > Oniko, > > > > I also didn't get the full meaning of > > what you wrote > > > > eg > > > > 1. the way you use the " self " or real > > self > > It is confusing because the same words are used for more than one > meaning. There, I used any pattern as a self which will always > change as patterns do. The Presence is not the same that a rock star > or charismatic person gives off and not the same as the > spiritual/sexual surges of energy that some call kundalini. It is > everywhere and all reality floats on it like oil on water. It is the > smooth silent snow that the program is formed on when the tv is > turned on. That's why all people have to know it. We are it. It can > be followed to a point, then it draws us into it like we are steel > and get too close to a magnet. But, that's just from the human view > because we just revert back to our natural state and at a certain > point we can't hold a shape so we feel the draw in the end. > > It is the same way when the Holy Spirit comes in to us. No matter > what religeon or none, it is the same from the human vantage point > if you're aware of your body at the time. It comes in from the back > and to the right of the heart area like a great stamp of female love > that erases the colors and quickly swoops upward into a shower of > burning gold that seems to turn on every pathway of awareness at > once and then joins the love to be like living light which spreads > and smooths outward until it covers the world and the world is > revealed to be oneself and all bounderies of inside and outside are > brought down. > > So, what I mean when I say patterns, is any form even our own body > and even our own thoughts. Presence refers to the last part of the > description. > hi Oniko, I get it but, the word " Presence " at spiritual boards is a reference to the presence of special someone, like a guru or a master, not the subtle Holy Ghost or the spirit in everyone > > > > 2. the way you refer to the 'Presence' > > > > have you ever met an enlightened being? > > > > [not one in your terminology: that everyone is enlightened] > > > > or a rock star they have un deniable > > presence > > > > usually within 'spiritual' exchanges > > the " self " talked about is the Ramana's > > Self > > > > at least that is what I think Devi is > > referring to > > > > but for me her way of wording is also > > confusing > > > > because what happened to Ramana was, > > thet he 'lost' all the selves [small > > self] and became uniquely enlightened > > ..not realized the self as Devi words it > > I don't understand > > > > [could be my English] <grin> > > > > I sense, that she means that the Self > > with capital 'S' is synonymous with God > > > > so she would say: Ramana realized God > > > > maybe Devi would like to clear this > > up also, here which is an other forum. > > > > love, Karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 Dear Onniko, I think we're very lucky to receive messages like this one from you. It's a privilege to have you here. Best wishes, Rob - " Onniko " <onniko <Realization > Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:23 AM Re: Enlightenment is? > > It is confusing because the same words are used for more than one > meaning. There, I used any pattern as a self which will always > change as patterns do. The Presence is not the same that a rock star > or charismatic person gives off and not the same as the > spiritual/sexual surges of energy that some call kundalini. It is > everywhere and all reality floats on it like oil on water. It is the > smooth silent snow that the program is formed on when the tv is > turned on. That's why all people have to know it. We are it. It can > be followed to a point, then it draws us into it like we are steel > and get too close to a magnet. But, that's just from the human view > because we just revert back to our natural state and at a certain > point we can't hold a shape so we feel the draw in the end. > > It is the same way when the Holy Spirit comes in to us. No matter > what religeon or none, it is the same from the human vantage point > if you're aware of your body at the time. It comes in from the back > and to the right of the heart area like a great stamp of female love > that erases the colors and quickly swoops upward into a shower of > burning gold that seems to turn on every pathway of awareness at > once and then joins the love to be like living light which spreads > and smooths outward until it covers the world and the world is > revealed to be oneself and all bounderies of inside and outside are > brought down. > > So, what I mean when I say patterns, is any form even our own body > and even our own thoughts. Presence refers to the last part of the > description. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 Sacks " <editor@r...> wrote: > Dear Onniko, > > I think we're very lucky to receive messages like this one > from you. It's a privilege to have you here. > > Best wishes, > > Rob > most definitely, I second this dear Rob it is refreshing to 'normal' people's posts vs *realizers* and *enlightened* ones love, Karta > Re: Enlightenment is? > > > > > > It is confusing because the same words are used for more than one > > meaning. There, I used any pattern as a self which will always > > change as patterns do. The Presence is not the same that a rock star > > or charismatic person gives off and not the same as the > > spiritual/sexual surges of energy that some call kundalini. It is > > everywhere and all reality floats on it like oil on water. It is the > > smooth silent snow that the program is formed on when the tv is > > turned on. That's why all people have to know it. We are it. It can > > be followed to a point, then it draws us into it like we are steel > > and get too close to a magnet. But, that's just from the human view > > because we just revert back to our natural state and at a certain > > point we can't hold a shape so we feel the draw in the end. > > > > It is the same way when the Holy Spirit comes in to us. No matter > > what religeon or none, it is the same from the human vantage point > > if you're aware of your body at the time. It comes in from the back > > and to the right of the heart area like a great stamp of female love > > that erases the colors and quickly swoops upward into a shower of > > burning gold that seems to turn on every pathway of awareness at > > once and then joins the love to be like living light which spreads > > and smooths outward until it covers the world and the world is > > revealed to be oneself and all bounderies of inside and outside are > > brought down. > > > > So, what I mean when I say patterns, is any form even our own body > > and even our own thoughts. Presence refers to the last part of the > > description. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Realization , " satkartar14 " <satkarta4@j...> wrote: > > > > OK, but then there's the definition of enlightenment that I hear > > > > that goes something like this: The enlightened person has moved > > > > beyond all conditioning. In other words, those besides the 56 > > > > respond within a range of patterns and just knowing that we do > > and > > > > knowing that none are the " real " self and even knowing the > > Presence > > > > that does not change (as all who ask with an open mind are free > > to > > > > do)...none of that makes a person enlightened. > > > > > > > > > Oniko, > > > > > > I also didn't get the full meaning of > > > what you wrote > > > > > > eg > > > > > > 1. the way you use the " self " or real > > > self > > > > It is confusing because the same words are used for more than one > > meaning. There, I used any pattern as a self which will always > > change as patterns do. The Presence is not the same that a rock star > > or charismatic person gives off and not the same as the > > spiritual/sexual surges of energy that some call kundalini. It is > > everywhere and all reality floats on it like oil on water. It is the > > smooth silent snow that the program is formed on when the tv is > > turned on. That's why all people have to know it. We are it. It can > > be followed to a point, then it draws us into it like we are steel > > and get too close to a magnet. But, that's just from the human view > > because we just revert back to our natural state and at a certain > > point we can't hold a shape so we feel the draw in the end. > > > > It is the same way when the Holy Spirit comes in to us. No matter > > what religeon or none, it is the same from the human vantage point > > if you're aware of your body at the time. It comes in from the back > > and to the right of the heart area like a great stamp of female love > > that erases the colors and quickly swoops upward into a shower of > > burning gold that seems to turn on every pathway of awareness at > > once and then joins the love to be like living light which spreads > > and smooths outward until it covers the world and the world is > > revealed to be oneself and all bounderies of inside and outside are > > brought down. > > > > So, what I mean when I say patterns, is any form even our own body > > and even our own thoughts. Presence refers to the last part of the > > description. > > > > > > hi Oniko, > > I get it > > but, the word " Presence " at spiritual > boards is a reference to the presence > of special someone, like a guru or > a master, not the subtle Holy Ghost or > the spirit in everyone Oh, I see. usually, I've heard that referred to as charisma. Definitions are very hard. Why do you call the Holy Spirit subtle? That would be another of those weird definition things. Whe I think of the subtle emotions, there's something specific I also think of that would be different than the Holy Spirit. It's no wonder people are usually told to just stick with their own religeon or one guru. Someone could tell you to go out and pick some strawberries and you'd come back with a bag of hay. These invisable realities are so much bigger than our definitive mind. You know, Positive sent me a Tolle video with a picture he wanted retouched. I've watched about half of it so far and it's very nice. He's an interesting fellow to watch. > > > 2. the way you refer to the 'Presence' > > > > > > have you ever met an enlightened being? > > > > > > [not one in your terminology: that everyone is enlightened] > > > > > > or a rock star they have un deniable > > > presence > > > > > > usually within 'spiritual' exchanges > > > the " self " talked about is the Ramana's > > > Self > > > > > > at least that is what I think Devi is > > > referring to > > > > > > but for me her way of wording is also > > > confusing > > > > > > because what happened to Ramana was, > > > thet he 'lost' all the selves [small > > > self] and became uniquely enlightened > > > ..not realized the self as Devi words it > > > I don't understand > > > > > > [could be my English] <grin> > > > > > > I sense, that she means that the Self > > > with capital 'S' is synonymous with God > > > > > > so she would say: Ramana realized God > > > > > > maybe Devi would like to clear this > > > up also, here which is an other forum. > > > > > > love, Karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Realization , " Rob Sacks " <editor@r...> wrote: > Dear Onniko, > > I think we're very lucky to receive messages like this one > from you. It's a privilege to have you here. > > Best wishes, > > Rob That you, Rob, you're very sweet. Don't forget that it could be completely wrong, or at least immaterial, though. > - > " Onniko " <onniko> > <Realization > > Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:23 AM > Re: Enlightenment is? > > > > > > It is confusing because the same words are used for more than one > > meaning. There, I used any pattern as a self which will always > > change as patterns do. The Presence is not the same that a rock star > > or charismatic person gives off and not the same as the > > spiritual/sexual surges of energy that some call kundalini. It is > > everywhere and all reality floats on it like oil on water. It is the > > smooth silent snow that the program is formed on when the tv is > > turned on. That's why all people have to know it. We are it. It can > > be followed to a point, then it draws us into it like we are steel > > and get too close to a magnet. But, that's just from the human view > > because we just revert back to our natural state and at a certain > > point we can't hold a shape so we feel the draw in the end. > > > > It is the same way when the Holy Spirit comes in to us. No matter > > what religeon or none, it is the same from the human vantage point > > if you're aware of your body at the time. It comes in from the back > > and to the right of the heart area like a great stamp of female love > > that erases the colors and quickly swoops upward into a shower of > > burning gold that seems to turn on every pathway of awareness at > > once and then joins the love to be like living light which spreads > > and smooths outward until it covers the world and the world is > > revealed to be oneself and all bounderies of inside and outside are > > brought down. > > > > So, what I mean when I say patterns, is any form even our own body > > and even our own thoughts. Presence refers to the last part of the > > description. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.