Guest guest Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an understanding of the relationship between destruction and creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries of life as meaningless mayhem alone. --Marion Woodman Canadian analyst, writer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Realization , " TRADER-IN-THE-LIGHT " <unbound@h...> wrote: > Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an understanding of the relationship between destruction and creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries of life as meaningless mayhem alone. > --Marion Woodman Canadian analyst, writer Alton, I hope you don't mean to understand " death and rebirth " as you and Devi understand it to clone yourselves after you exit your vehicle through reincarnation till eternity ? hah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Alton posted this quote a few days ago (he's away from the group right now, so I won't address this message to him): > Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an > understanding of the relationship between destruction and > creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries > of life as meaningless mayhem alone. > --Marion Woodman Canadian analyst, writer This is a peculiar quotation to post in a forum devoted to enlightenment. The quotation expresses the conventional religious idea that life appears to be meaningless unless we tell ourselves fairy tales or accept the revealed truths of organized religion. Yes, that's a conventional religious view. But the people who discovered enlightenment (Buddha and the rishis who wrote the Upanishads) believed something quite different. First of all, they didn't think life was haphazard. They thought the events of our lives are organized according to the law of karma. Second, they didn't think that story-telling can help us escape from suffering caused by the events of our lives. They thought that the only solution is to see what our nature really is. They believed that this cannot be done with stories, or with any kind of words, or with any kind of thoughts. It can only be done with a certain change of mental state which can be facilitated by various kinds of yoga including meditation. I think that if a person is interested in enlightenment, it's a good idea to learn a few basic facts about Hinduism or Buddhism, the two traditions that discovered and preserved information about enlightenment. The most elementary thing about Buddhism is Buddha's Four Noble Truths. That is the most basic thing about Buddhism. The Four Noble Truths are: 1. Life always includes suffering. 2. Suffering is caused by desire. 3. There's a way to end suffering. 4. You end it with the eight-fold path (Buddha's method of yoga). Right there in the Four Noble Truths, the most basic thing that anybody could know about Buddhism, is the alternative to the quotation. - TRADER-IN-THE-LIGHT Undisclosed-Recipient:; Wednesday, October 29, 2003 10:43 AM DEATH QUOTE SERIES: MYTH. MARION WOODMAN Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an understanding of the relationship between destruction and creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries of life as meaningless mayhem alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Realization , " Rob Sacks " <editor@r...> wrote: > Alton posted this quote a few days ago (he's away from the > group right now, so I won't address this message to him): > > > Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an > > understanding of the relationship between destruction and > > creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries > > of life as meaningless mayhem alone. > > --Marion Woodman Canadian analyst, writer > > This is a peculiar quotation to post in a forum devoted to > enlightenment. > > The quotation expresses the conventional religious idea > that life appears to be meaningless unless we tell ourselves > fairy tales or accept the revealed truths of organized religion. > > Yes, that's a conventional religious view. > > But the people who discovered enlightenment (Buddha and > the rishis who wrote the Upanishads) believed something > quite different. > > First of all, they didn't think life was haphazard. They thought > the events of our lives are organized according to the law of > karma. > > Second, they didn't think that story-telling can help us > escape from suffering caused by the events of our lives. > They thought that the only solution is to see what our nature > really is. They believed that this cannot be done with stories, > or with any kind of words, or with any kind of thoughts. It > can only be done with a certain change of mental state which can > be facilitated by various kinds of yoga including meditation. > > I think that if a person is interested in enlightenment, it's a good > idea to learn a few basic facts about Hinduism or Buddhism, the > two traditions that discovered and preserved information about > enlightenment. > > The most elementary thing about Buddhism is Buddha's Four > Noble Truths. That is the most basic thing about Buddhism. > > The Four Noble Truths are: > > 1. Life always includes suffering. > 2. Suffering is caused by desire. > 3. There's a way to end suffering. > 4. You end it with the eight-fold path (Buddha's method of yoga). > > Right there in the Four Noble Truths, the most basic thing that > anybody could know about Buddhism, is the alternative to the > quotation. > thank you Rob, and 'turning away from life' is turning away from the NOW!! and sitting down to meditate with a wish ANY WISH! is not meditation its a waste of time let alone to sit down with the wish for eternal life *enlightenment* and 'salvation' pleeeeze don't get me started with this reincarnation thingy I got spined to everyone's wrong side <grin> I am still on timeout with Alton hihi ---- The most fundamental duality is the duality between " Me " and " Not-Me " . This has to disappear ~ Sandeep ~ > Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an understanding of the relationship between destruction and creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries of life as meaningless mayhem alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Alton posted this quote a few days ago (he's away from the group right now, so I won't address this message to him): Dear Rob: Since I have received messages unabated since I had that spiritual/emotional cleasing the other day, I see that God/Rob is insisting that I remain as a member; so I was conpelled to rejoin. If not than I am here never-the-less. > Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an > understanding of the relationship between destruction and > creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries > of life as meaningless mayhem alone. > --Marion Woodman Canadian analyst, writer This is a peculiar quotation to post in a forum devoted to enlightenment. The quotation expresses the conventional religious idea that life appears to be meaningless unless we tell ourselves fairy tales or accept the revealed truths of organized religion. I know I am not as learned and smart as you Rob, but I see ms Woodman as communicating that suffering life's mysteries as meaningless mayhem can be contervened with the knowledge and wisdom of the relationship between destruction, creation, death and rebirth. Yes, that's a conventional religious view. But the people who discovered enlightenment (Buddha and the rishis who wrote the Upanishads) believed something quite different. I am glad you used the word "believing", which is from the point of view of the believer and not necessarity TRUTH. First of all, they didn't think life was haphazard. They thought the events of our lives are organized according to the law of karma. Second, they didn't think that story-telling can help us escape from suffering caused by the events of our lives. They thought that the only solution is to see what our nature really is. They believed that this cannot be done with stories, or with any kind of words, or with any kind of thoughts. It can only be done with a certain change of mental state which can be facilitated by various kinds of yoga including meditation. I think that if a person is interested in enlightenment, it's a good idea to learn a few basic facts about Hinduism or Buddhism, the two traditions that discovered and preserved information about enlightenment. The most elementary thing about Buddhism is Buddha's Four Noble Truths. That is the most basic thing about Buddhism. The Four Noble Truths are: 1. Life always includes suffering. 2. Suffering is caused by desire. 3. There's a way to end suffering. 4. You end it with the eight-fold path (Buddha's method of yoga). Right there in the Four Noble Truths, the most basic thing that anybody could know about Buddhism, is the alternative to the quotation. With all the love that this illusion provides. Alton INTRINSIC_II/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Alton, please forgive once againI missed you much, love, whateverthatis, KartaDear Karta: You were never unforgiven. I needed to let you know that you cant delete photos that others post unless they violate the rules relating to the group description. So I have set up the new group so that there wont be irritations when someone uses photos to harrass or burns up the group with personal attacks. Some will call me a Hitler type but Hitler persecuted and Alton will prevent persecutions. Come and join the new group. You are most welcomed. INTRINSIC_II/ Love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Good for you Alton ! How can you relate that action to being classified as a hitler? What do personal attacks and harassing others have to do with any method of self-inquiry or surrendering to God?Good luck with your group. Dear Alak: Some members and or owners of groups think that those who repress free speech are Hitler types. In one way that is true, but I want a peaceful group that is not bogged down with personal attacks and irritations. Members then leave the group and it is not pleasant for the owners. Addressing issues that are raised even with strongly composed disagrements are welcomed. Love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Realization , " TRADER-IN-THE-LIGHT " <unbound@h...> wrote: > > > > Alton posted this quote a few days ago (he's away from the > group right now, so I won't address this message to him): > > Dear Rob: Since I have received messages unabated since I had that spiritual/emotional cleasing the other day, I see that God/Rob is insisting that I remain as a member; so I was conpelled to rejoin. If not than I am here never-the-less. > > > > > Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an > > understanding of the relationship between destruction and > > creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries > > of life as meaningless mayhem alone. > > --Marion Woodman Canadian analyst, writer > > This is a peculiar quotation to post in a forum devoted to > enlightenment. > > The quotation expresses the conventional religious idea > that life appears to be meaningless unless we tell ourselves > fairy tales or accept the revealed truths of organized religion. > > I know I am not as learned and smart as you Rob, but I see ms Woodman > as communicating that suffering life's mysteries as meaningless mayhem > can be contervened with the knowledge and wisdom of the relationship between destruction, creation, death and rebirth. > > > > Yes, that's a conventional religious view. > > But the people who discovered enlightenment (Buddha and > the rishis who wrote the Upanishads) believed something > quite different. > > I am glad you used the word " believing " , which is from the point of > view of the believer and not necessarity TRUTH. > > First of all, they didn't think life was haphazard. They thought > the events of our lives are organized according to the law of > karma. > > Second, they didn't think that story-telling can help us > escape from suffering caused by the events of our lives. > They thought that the only solution is to see what our nature > really is. They believed that this cannot be done with stories, > or with any kind of words, or with any kind of thoughts. It > can only be done with a certain change of mental state which can > be facilitated by various kinds of yoga including meditation. > > I think that if a person is interested in enlightenment, it's a good > idea to learn a few basic facts about Hinduism or Buddhism, the > two traditions that discovered and preserved information about > enlightenment. > > The most elementary thing about Buddhism is Buddha's Four > Noble Truths. That is the most basic thing about Buddhism. > > The Four Noble Truths are: > > 1. Life always includes suffering. > 2. Suffering is caused by desire. > 3. There's a way to end suffering. > 4. You end it with the eight-fold path (Buddha's method of yoga). > > Right there in the Four Noble Truths, the most basic thing that > anybody could know about Buddhism, is the alternative to the > quotation. > > With all the love that this illusion provides. > Alton > > INTRINSIC_II/ Alton, please forgive once again I missed you much, love, whateverthatis, Karta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 This is a story that was given to me during meditation.A man goes to work one day, comes home tired and hungry. He has purchased a pepperoni pizza and a six-pack of beer. After the dinner, he half falls asleep and gets in touch with the Infinite. This is the greatest thing that has ever happened to him. He is overjoyed and tells all of his friends about the experience.His friends ask him, “What were you doing when this happened?” “ It wasright after I ate a pepperoni pizza”, he responds. His friends try it, and some of them get in touch with God/Nirvana/The Infinite. They are overjoyed and want to repeat the experience.So, the group of friends begins to meet regularly on Sunday to shareexperiences and pepperoni pizza, and the Church of the Pepperoni Pizza is born. There is an altar with a large pepperoni pizza above it, with seating in front. Each Sunday the friends share pizza and beer.After a while, there is discussion on the best type of pepperoni, how thick the sauce should be, and should it be thick or thin crust pizza. What beer is the best? People begin to argue about who makes the best pizza, and boast that when they make the pizza, more get in touch with the infinite. Focus is allowed to stray from God/Nirvana/The Infinite and the meeting changes from a spiritual experience to a simple social gathering.Gelf Their souls may soon be starved, but at least their bodies will be glutted with PORK. Love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Realization , " TRADER-IN-THE-LIGHT " <unbound@h...> wrote: > > > Alton, please forgive once again > > I missed you much, love, whateverthatis, > > Karta > > > Dear Karta: > You were never unforgiven. I needed to let you know that you cant delete photos that others post unless they violate the rules relating to the group description. > > So I have set up the new group so that there wont be irritations when someone uses photos to harrass or burns up the group with personal attacks. Some will call me a Hitler type but Hitler persecuted and Alton will prevent persecutions. > > Come and join the new group. You are most welcomed. > > > INTRINSIC_II/ > > > Love, > Alton Good for you Alton ! How can you relate that action to being classified as a hitler? What do personal attacks and harassing others have to do with any method of self-inquiry or surrendering to God? Good luck with your group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Realization , " Era " <satkarta7@j...> wrote: > Realization , " TRADER-IN-THE-LIGHT " <unbound@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Alton posted this quote a few days ago (he's away from the > > group right now, so I won't address this message to him): > > > > Dear Rob: Since I have received messages unabated since I had that spiritual/emotional cleasing the other day, I see that God/Rob is insisting that I remain as a member; so I was conpelled to rejoin. If not than I am here never-the-less. > > > > > > > > > Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an > > > understanding of the relationship between destruction and > > > creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries > > > of life as meaningless mayhem alone. > > > --Marion Woodman Canadian analyst, writer > > > > This is a peculiar quotation to post in a forum devoted to > > enlightenment. > > > > The quotation expresses the conventional religious idea > > that life appears to be meaningless unless we tell ourselves > > fairy tales or accept the revealed truths of organized religion. > > > > I know I am not as learned and smart as you Rob, but I see ms Woodman > > as communicating that suffering life's mysteries as meaningless mayhem > > can be contervened with the knowledge and wisdom of the relationship between destruction, creation, death and rebirth. > > > > > > > > Yes, that's a conventional religious view. > > > > But the people who discovered enlightenment (Buddha and > > the rishis who wrote the Upanishads) believed something > > quite different. > > > > I am glad you used the word " believing " , which is from the point of > > view of the believer and not necessarity TRUTH. > > > > First of all, they didn't think life was haphazard. They thought > > the events of our lives are organized according to the law of > > karma. > > > > Second, they didn't think that story-telling can help us > > escape from suffering caused by the events of our lives. > > They thought that the only solution is to see what our nature > > really is. They believed that this cannot be done with stories, > > or with any kind of words, or with any kind of thoughts. It > > can only be done with a certain change of mental state which can > > be facilitated by various kinds of yoga including meditation. > > > > I think that if a person is interested in enlightenment, it's a good > > idea to learn a few basic facts about Hinduism or Buddhism, the > > two traditions that discovered and preserved information about > > enlightenment. > > > > The most elementary thing about Buddhism is Buddha's Four > > Noble Truths. That is the most basic thing about Buddhism. > > > > The Four Noble Truths are: > > > > 1. Life always includes suffering. > > 2. Suffering is caused by desire. > > 3. There's a way to end suffering. > > 4. You end it with the eight-fold path (Buddha's method of yoga). > > > > Right there in the Four Noble Truths, the most basic thing that > > anybody could know about Buddhism, is the alternative to the > > quotation. > > > > With all the love that this illusion provides. > > Alton > > > > INTRINSIC_II/ > > > Alton, please forgive once again > > I missed you much, love, whateverthatis, > > Karta What do you think love is ? Curious you use it as a tag line and then say you don't understand what it is . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 This is a story that was given to me during meditation.A man goes to work one day, comes home tired and hungry. He has purchased a pepperoni pizza and a six-pack of beer. After the dinner, he half falls asleep and gets in touch with the Infinite. This is the greatest thing that has ever happened to him. He is overjoyed and tells all of his friends about the experience.His friends ask him, “What were you doing when this happened?” “ It wasright after I ate a pepperoni pizza”, he responds. His friends try it, and some of them get in touch with God/Nirvana/The Infinite. They are overjoyed and want to repeat the experience.So, the group of friends begins to meet regularly on Sunday to shareexperiences and pepperoni pizza, and the Church of the Pepperoni Pizza is born. There is an altar with a large pepperoni pizza above it, with seating in front. Each Sunday the friends share pizza and beer.After a while, there is discussion on the best type of pepperoni, how thick the sauce should be, and should it be thick or thin crust pizza. What beer is the best? People begin to argue about who makes the best pizza, and boast that when they make the pizza, more get in touch with the infinite. Focus is allowed to stray from God/Nirvana/The Infinite and the meeting changes from a spiritual experience to a simple social gathering.Gelf TRADER-IN-THE-LIGHT [unbound]Saturday, November 01, 2003 10:52 AMRealization Subject: Re: Re: DEATH QUOTE SERIES: MYTH. MARION WOODMAN Good for you Alton ! How can you relate that action to being classified as a hitler? What do personal attacks and harassing others have to do with any method of self-inquiry or surrendering to God?Good luck with your group. Dear Alak: Some members and or owners of groups think that those who repress free speech are Hitler types. In one way that is true, but I want a peaceful group that is not bogged down with personal attacks and irritations. Members then leave the group and it is not pleasant for the owners. Addressing issues that are raised even with strongly composed disagrements are welcomed. Love, Alton ...........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Realization , " TRADER-IN-THE-LIGHT " <unbound@h...> wrote: > > > Alton, please forgive once again > > I missed you much, love, whateverthatis, > > Karta > > > Dear Karta: > You were never unforgiven. I needed to let you know that you cant delete photos that others post unless they violate the rules relating to the group description. > > So I have set up the new group so that there wont be irritations when someone uses photos to harrass or burns up the group with personal attacks. Some will call me a Hitler type but Hitler persecuted and Alton will prevent persecutions. > > Come and join the new group. You are most welcomed. > > > INTRINSIC_II/ > > > Love, > Alton shit! and I thought that you changed a bit :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Dear Alton, > ...I see ms Woodman as communicating that suffering life's > mysteries as meaningless mayhem can be contervened > with the knowledge and wisdom of the relationship between > destruction, creation, death and rebirth. Yes that's what she thinks. And she's right. When we explain unpleasant events to ourselves, we feel better. It's a psychological fact. Yes, when we tell ourselves myths and stories and theories and ideas that explain the unpleasant experiences of our lives, those experiences seem less unpleasant. She is one hundred percent correct. But this is the opposite of enlightenment. Enlightenment has nothing to do with ideas and concepts and explanations and theories and stories and words. Nothing, nothing, nothing. In fact, as long as you pursue that kind of activity -- explaining things, accounting for things, thinking about things -- you can't see enlightenment. The search for explanations is one of the activities of mind that obscures the real state of affairs and perpetuates the ego illusion. "Yoga is the stopping of the motions of the mind." -- Patanjali. > I know I am not as learned and smart as you Rob Haha, you're just jealous that I'm dumber than you. Best wishes, Rob - TRADER-IN-THE-LIGHT Realization Saturday, November 01, 2003 10:14 AM Re: DEATH QUOTE SERIES: MYTH. MARION WOODMAN Alton posted this quote a few days ago (he's away from the group right now, so I won't address this message to him): Dear Rob: Since I have received messages unabated since I had that spiritual/emotional cleasing the other day, I see that God/Rob is insisting that I remain as a member; so I was conpelled to rejoin. If not than I am here never-the-less. > Without an understanding of myth or religion, without an > understanding of the relationship between destruction and > creation, death and rebirth, the individual suffers the mysteries > of life as meaningless mayhem alone. > --Marion Woodman Canadian analyst, writer This is a peculiar quotation to post in a forum devoted to enlightenment. The quotation expresses the conventional religious idea that life appears to be meaningless unless we tell ourselves fairy tales or accept the revealed truths of organized religion. I know I am not as learned and smart as you Rob, but I see ms Woodman as communicating that suffering life's mysteries as meaningless mayhem can be contervened with the knowledge and wisdom of the relationship between destruction, creation, death and rebirth. Yes, that's a conventional religious view. But the people who discovered enlightenment (Buddha and the rishis who wrote the Upanishads) believed something quite different. I am glad you used the word "believing", which is from the point of view of the believer and not necessarity TRUTH. First of all, they didn't think life was haphazard. They thought the events of our lives are organized according to the law of karma. Second, they didn't think that story-telling can help us escape from suffering caused by the events of our lives. They thought that the only solution is to see what our nature really is. They believed that this cannot be done with stories, or with any kind of words, or with any kind of thoughts. It can only be done with a certain change of mental state which can be facilitated by various kinds of yoga including meditation. I think that if a person is interested in enlightenment, it's a good idea to learn a few basic facts about Hinduism or Buddhism, the two traditions that discovered and preserved information about enlightenment. The most elementary thing about Buddhism is Buddha's Four Noble Truths. That is the most basic thing about Buddhism. The Four Noble Truths are: 1. Life always includes suffering. 2. Suffering is caused by desire. 3. There's a way to end suffering. 4. You end it with the eight-fold path (Buddha's method of yoga). Right there in the Four Noble Truths, the most basic thing that anybody could know about Buddhism, is the alternative to the quotation. With all the love that this illusion provides. Alton INTRINSIC_II/ ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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