Guest guest Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 Dear Dan: Ok let us say that one has that moment of 'understanding " " the stark truth " , " breaking through the Self " , " such " , " moment of breakthrough " , " understanding the loop " . Will that point in consciousness that is embodied, have discursive unsanctioned thoughts? Reactions that are irritating? Other negative mental states? If your answer is yes, than I have to admit that what you are delineating does not interest me. I want the complete destruction of all mental tendencies, a mind that is never without peacefulness, an interconnectiveness that does not waver and love that cant be reversed. I realize that I should have asked the question before I told what I desire, so that you would answer. Please do. Love, ss > p.s I ask you if you have done any meditation practice or do any now? Yes, I have done " techniques " as they were recommended, and I wanted to see what value if any they had. I understand some limited value to techniques, in terms of using a cause to reach a temporary effect. To which there always seemed a counterproductive aspect. To whit: As it seems to me now, any meditation that takes one away from *this* is counterproductive. Taking away meaning, I must be separate to want to get something different from this now, as is. As one is clear that *this* never is not the case, meditation can't be anything other than *this* as is. Meaning: this moment, now, as is. Has been called " naked awareness " has been called " nonmeditation " ... words aren't what this is, nor does any word interfere with this being as is. Love, Dan Realization , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > p.s I ask you if you have done any meditation practice or do > any now? > > Yes, I have done " techniques " as they were recommended, > and I wanted to see what value if any they had. > > I understand some limited value to techniques, in terms > of using a cause to reach a temporary effect. > > To which there always seemed a counterproductive aspect. > > To whit: > > As it seems to me now, any meditation that takes one > away from *this* is counterproductive. Taking away > meaning, I must be separate to want to get something > different from this now, as is. > > As one is clear that *this* never is not the case, > meditation can't be anything other than *this* > as is. > > Meaning: this moment, now, as is. > > Has been called " naked awareness " has been > called " nonmeditation " ... words aren't > what this is, nor does any word interfere > with this being as is. > > Love, > Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 Realization , " Swami Spam " <lostnfoundation> wrote: > Dear Dan: Hi Friend, > Ok let us say that one has that moment of 'understanding " " the stark > truth " , " breaking through the Self " , " such " , " moment of > breakthrough " , " understanding the loop " . One *is* the moment. *This* is the breaking through. > Will that point in > consciousness that is embodied, have discursive unsanctioned > thoughts? Nothing is fixed, so nothing is embodied. The body is merely a constructed way of viewing a reality for a self. Without a self supposed to be a body, or supposed to inhabit a body, the body is simply a conventional point of reference, an abstraction, just less abstracted than the concept of a personal mind. You imagine yourself to exist as a self, so you imagine a body that belongs to you, and a mind of the body, which can have sanctioned or unsanctioned thoughts. That this is a concern for you, is simply an expression of the belief in existing as a separable self. > Reactions that are irritating? Other negative mental > states? If your answer is yes, than I have to admit that what you > are delineating does not interest me. You want a perfect state of being for yourself, undisturbed, calm, without irritation. In other words, you desire something to have, a state to be in, which is merely a way of projecting self into what it imagines to be a perfect environment. What you don't want is truth, which has no place for a self to have its own existence, therefore, no way to inhabit a perfect environment and have a perfect blissful experience for itself. > I want the complete > destruction of all mental tendencies, a mind that is never without > peacefulness, an interconnectiveness that does not waver and love > that cant be reversed. Sure. But are you willing to look into that wanting and see what it's about? Look beyond the spiritualization of greed, and see that a self that wants things for itself is the same old story, just trying to dress itself up in a new disguise, so it can't be detected. But of course it is detected. Truth can never fail to detect the attempt to impose a self, which is only the past, memory, continuity as the desire to have, to maintain a fixity of being. Truth never fails to know you exactly as you are and what you are doing. It is you, meaning any you, including " I " , which is the attempt to manufacture ignore-ance as a way to exist in a state of being. No one's attempt ever evades detection, no one gets away with anything. There is no escape, no way to have something desired for a self. So, there is only the self-deception of the attempt, never anything more than that -- a kind of clinging to an imagined security that never is really established anywhere. I realize that I should have asked the > question before I told what I desire, so that you would answer. > Please do. Okay. > Love, > ss Love to you, too, Alton. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 Hi Friend Dan: Swami Spam is in training. He diligently wants to become the Absolute and have not only his body, the world, but his mind ceasing to exist. Only the Absolute remains which is the sub-structure of consciousness or those Strings that the physicists are conjuring about. By careful and earnest removal of the Attention from thought Visanas and all mentations that are gabbing that Attention, a time comes when there is nothing to appear except the Attention, which is turned on permanently to that Attention. Will this be " the truth " ? Will that then be " the moment, the breaking through " ? Now you have to answer no, because if you say yes that would invalidate what you are presenting. But it would be great to see how you answer. Dan: You want a perfect state of being for yourself, undisturbed, calm, without irritation. In other words, you desire something to have, a state to be in, which is merely a way of projecting self into what it imagines to be a perfect environment. What you don't want is truth, which has no place for a self to have its own existence, therefore, no way to inhabit a perfect environment and have a perfect blissful experience for itself. ss: No I don't want a perfect state of being for myself as the final solution. I want to know nothing be nothing have nothing. Most seekers appear to want some eternal terrific state but not ss. Sure on the way I might like those states, but knowing it wont last, I chose the final solution. And by the way does not the " understanding of the loop " , " one is the moment " need a mind to know about it? And could it be that this " understanding of the loop " , " is the moment " also Delusionary? Dan: Nothing is fixed, so nothing is embodied. ss: Without a body how can we know this? If you are talking about the Absolute~words cant go there. Dan: Sure. But are you willing to look into that wanting and see what it's about? Look beyond the spiritualization of greed, and see that a self that wants things for itself is the same old story, just trying to dress itself up in a new disguise, so it can't be detected. But of course it is detected. Truth can never fail to detect the attempt to impose a self, which is only the past, memory, continuity as the desire to have, to maintain a fixity of being ss: This cant apply to ss because as stated above he wants the state of non-states. Sure. But are you willing to look into that wanting and see what it's about? Look beyond the spiritualization of greed, and see that a self that wants things for itself is the same old story, just trying to dress itself up in a new disguise, so it can't be detected. But of course it is detected. Truth can never fail to detect the attempt to impose a self, which is only the past, memory, continuity as the desire to have, to maintain a fixity of being. ss: Desire created the Universe and all it accouterments and desire can end the personal and return to its source. Doesn't this all amount to having a " firm conviction " ? If one has the moment of truth and has not had all the teachings about it would they become disturbed? Would they even know what it meant? Om Shanti Swami spam loves everybody Hi Friend, > Ok let us say that one has that moment of 'understanding " " the stark > truth " , " breaking through the Self " , " such " , " moment of > breakthrough " , " understanding the loop " . One *is* the moment. *This* is the breaking through. > Will that point in > consciousness that is embodied, have discursive unsanctioned > thoughts? Nothing is fixed, so nothing is embodied. The body is merely a constructed way of viewing a reality for a self. Without a self supposed to be a body, or supposed to inhabit a body, the body is simply a conventional point of reference, an abstraction, just less abstracted than the concept of a personal mind. You imagine yourself to exist as a self, so you imagine a body that belongs to you, and a mind of the body, which can have sanctioned or unsanctioned thoughts. That this is a concern for you, is simply an expression of the belief in existing as a separable self. > Reactions that are irritating? Other negative mental > states? If your answer is yes, than I have to admit that what you > are delineating does not interest me. You want a perfect state of being for yourself, undisturbed, calm, without irritation. In other words, you desire something to have, a state to be in, which is merely a way of projecting self into what it imagines to be a perfect environment. What you don't want is truth, which has no place for a self to have its own existence, therefore, no way to inhabit a perfect environment and have a perfect blissful experience for itself. > I want the complete > destruction of all mental tendencies, a mind that is never without > peacefulness, an interconnectiveness that does not waver and love > that cant be reversed. Sure. But are you willing to look into that wanting and see what it's about? Look beyond the spiritualization of greed, and see that a self that wants things for itself is the same old story, just trying to dress itself up in a new disguise, so it can't be detected. But of course it is detected. Truth can never fail to detect the attempt to impose a self, which is only the past, memory, continuity as the desire to have, to maintain a fixity of being. ss: Desire created the Universe and all it accoutrments and desire can end the personal and return to its source. Truth never fails to know you exactly as you are and what you are doing. It is you, meaning any you, including " I " , which is the attempt to manufacture ignore-ance as a way to exist in a state of being. ss: That is a great description of Nature No one's attempt ever evades detection, no one gets away with anything. There is no escape, no way to have something desired for a self. So, there is only the self-deception of the attempt, never anything more than that -- a kind of clinging to an imagined security that never is really established anywhere. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2004 Report Share Posted January 4, 2004 > ss: No I don't want a perfect state of being for myself as the final > solution. I want to know nothing be nothing have nothing. Your wanting is 'something.' So, your very wanting is distortion, an attempt to have something, rather than nothing. Most > seekers appear to want some eternal terrific state but not ss. > Sure on the way I might like those states, but knowing it wont last, > I chose the final solution. The attempt to manufacture and choose a solution, is the problem. > And by the way does not the " understanding of the loop " , " one is > the moment " need a mind to know about it? No. This which understands the mind, is not the mind. Otherwise, how could mind be understood? > And could it be that this " understanding of the loop " , " is the > moment " also Delusionary? It's a delusion for anyone who thinks they have an understanding for themselves. > Dan: Nothing is fixed, so nothing is embodied. > ss: Without a body how can we know this? If you are talking about > the Absolute~words cant go there. Saying that words can't go there, is words trying to go there. > ss: This cant apply to ss because as stated above he wants the state > of non-states. You wanting a non-state, is itself being in a state. > ss: Desire created the Universe and all it accouterments and desire > can end the personal and return to its source. Nonsense. There is no one to return, and nothing to be returned to. What you describe is a spiritual search, aka, " avoidance of 'this as is'. " > Doesn't this all amount to having a " firm conviction " ? > If one has the moment of truth and has not had all the teachings > about it would they become disturbed? Would they even know what it > meant? This has no meaning, nor does it lack meaning. This is not manufactured, and is not part of a consensus belief system. > Om Shanti > Swami spam loves everybody Love to you, too, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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