Guest guest Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 A friend asks: >Is the " I Am " sense of conscious presence a MENTAL STATE? Answer; All experience is a (passing) mental state... All sensing is a mental state... All feeling is a mental state... All perception is a mental state... All intention is a mental state... All thinking is a mental state... All conception is a mental state... All " world " is a mental state... All whether internal or external is a mental state... >The " I Am " sense of conscious presence is a false self-deception of an entity, which really do not exist like concluding, when looking in a mirror: " There is a person in the mirror... " while actually what there really is, is a mere reflected image... Or when seeing a train on a film screen: " There is a train in the cinema... " while actually what there really is is a mere projected image... An image of what ? One may then ask! We can never really know, since we only have the image(s) ... All assumption beyond that is speculative metaphysics... Form is real... Mind is real... Mentality is real... Nibbana is real... The rest are derivatives of these; that is mere yet complex conception ... samahita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 wery wery interesting doctor... one qwestion.. what is a mental state??? sam - Master of Change Realization Monday, October 11, 2004 2:43 AM The " I Am" a Mental State? A friend asks:>Is the "I Am" sense of conscious presence a MENTAL STATE?Answer;All experience is a (passing) mental state...All sensing is a mental state...All feeling is a mental state...All perception is a mental state...All intention is a mental state...All thinking is a mental state...All conception is a mental state...All "world" is a mental state...All whether internal or external is a mental state...>The "I Am" sense of conscious presence is a false self-deception of an entity, which really do not existlike concluding, when looking in a mirror:"There is a person in the mirror..." while actuallywhat there really is, is a mere reflected image...Or when seeing a train on a film screen:"There is a train in the cinema..." while actually what there really is is a mere projected image...An image of what ? One may then ask!We can never really know, since we only have the image(s) ...All assumption beyond that is speculative metaphysics...Form is real...Mind is real...Mentality is real...Nibbana is real...The rest are derivatives of these; that is mere yet complex conception ...samahita ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Realization , " Master of Change " <lostnfoundation> wrote: > > > > > A friend asks: > > >Is the " I Am " sense of conscious presence a MENTAL STATE? > > Answer; > All experience is a (passing) mental state... > All sensing is a mental state... > All feeling is a mental state... > All perception is a mental state... > All intention is a mental state... > All thinking is a mental state... > All conception is a mental state... > All " world " is a mental state... > All whether internal or external is a mental state... > Is KNOWING a mental state? " I am the KNOWLEDGE I am " Says, Nisargadata Maharaj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Hi Murati: I dont understand this seemingly out of context quote you provided in response. Please if you can explain? Namaste, Alton > > > > > > Is KNOWING a mental state? > > " I am the KNOWLEDGE I am " > > Says, Nisargadata Maharaj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 The context is your title - 'The " I Am " a Mental State?' The quote is - 'I am the KNOWLEDGE I am' The question - 'Is KNOWING a mental state?' The sense of I AM is the KNOWLDEGE that I AM. The Self(Atma) is Knowledge(Jnanam) alone. It is this KNOWING which knows the mind. In that case Knowing cannot be a mental state as the capacity of KNOWING has to be there prior to the mind. Now, is KNOWING which is sense of I AM, a mental state?' Realization , " Master of Change " <lostnfoundation> wrote: > > Hi Murati: > I dont understand this seemingly out of context quote you provided > in response. > Please if you can explain? > Namaste, > Alton > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is KNOWING a mental state? > > > > " I am the KNOWLEDGE I am " > > > > Says, Nisargadata Maharaj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Usually when people say " state " they are talking about things that come and go in our minds. The kind of knowledge that Maharaj is talking about doesn't come and go like that. It's the underlying consciousness. I can't think of a better answer than this to your question because the answer depends on how you choose to define the words " state " and " knowledge. " These aren't precise technical terms. They are used inconsistently in books about these subjects. - " Murali " <murali <Realization > Friday, October 15, 2004 11:14 AM Re: The " I Am " a Mental State? > > > The context is your title - 'The " I Am " a Mental State?' > > The quote is - 'I am the KNOWLEDGE I am' > > The question - 'Is KNOWING a mental state?' > > > The sense of I AM is the KNOWLDEGE that I AM. The Self(Atma) is > Knowledge(Jnanam) alone. It is this KNOWING which knows the mind. In > that case Knowing cannot be a mental state as the capacity of KNOWING > has to be there prior to the mind. > > Now, is KNOWING which is sense of I AM, a mental state?' > > > > > Realization , " Master of Change " > <lostnfoundation> wrote: > > > > Hi Murati: > > I dont understand this seemingly out of context quote you provided > > in response. > > Please if you can explain? > > Namaste, > > Alton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is KNOWING a mental state? > > > > > > " I am the KNOWLEDGE I am " > > > > > > Says, Nisargadata Maharaj ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST.......... > > Email addresses: > Post message: Realization > Un: Realization- > Our web address: http://www.realization.org > > By sending a message to this list, you are giving > permission to have it reproduced as a letter on > http://www.realization.org > ................................................ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Realization , " Rob Sacks " <editor@r...> wrote: > Usually when people say " state " they are talking > about things that come and go in our minds. > The kind of knowledge that Maharaj is talking > about doesn't come and go like that. It's the > underlying consciousness. That's precisely the point. Neither am I talking about relative knowledge of 'I as something' which is a mental state. The original post says QUOTE The " I Am " sense of conscious presence is a false self-deception of an entity, which really do not exist UNQUOTE In advaita circle, the clause ' " I Am " sense of conscious presence' has been rephrased differently by different teachers. Maharaj uses 'I amness', Ramana Maharshi calls it 'I-I radiation' and Atmananda calls the same as 'I principle'. I do not know how the Budhhists interpret this. This 'I am sense' cannot be a mental state as the existence of mind entirely depends on it. The 'I am sense' stands all by itself as the background whether the mind appears or not but the other way around is impossible. The mind can never comprehend the 'I am sense'. It can only infer. It is the Knowing (Awareness) which knows the mind and it's states. And that Knowing is what 'I am'. And, that knowledge which is continous Knowing only (not as stored informtaion) is the 'I am sense'. Similarly 'false self-deception of an entity' only confirms the reality of 'I am sense' because first the 'I am sense' has to be there so that the false entity (I am so-and-so) can apparently exist to self-deceive or self-assert. But, if the phrase [ " I Am " sense of conscious presence] in the original post indicates merely as the identification of a personal existance (during waking and dreaming) then the question is withdrawn. > > I can't think of a better answer than this to your > question because the answer depends on how > you choose to define the words " state " and > " knowledge. " These aren't precise technical > terms. They are used inconsistently in books > about these subjects. True. The Knowledge in this context is synonymous with Awareness. > > - > " Murali " <murali@g...> > <Realization > > Friday, October 15, 2004 11:14 AM > Re: The " I Am " a Mental State? > > > > > > > > The context is your title - 'The " I Am " a Mental State?' > > > > The quote is - 'I am the KNOWLEDGE I am' > > > > The question - 'Is KNOWING a mental state?' > > > > > > The sense of I AM is the KNOWLDEGE that I AM. The Self(Atma) is > > Knowledge(Jnanam) alone. It is this KNOWING which knows the mind. In > > that case Knowing cannot be a mental state as the capacity of KNOWING > > has to be there prior to the mind. > > > > Now, is KNOWING which is sense of I AM, a mental state?' > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Realization , "Murali" <murali@g...> wrote:> > Realization , "Rob Sacks" <editor@r...> wrote:> > Usually when people say "state" they are talking> > about things that come and go in our minds. > > The kind of knowledge that Maharaj is talking> > about doesn't come and go like that. It's the> > underlying consciousness. > Alton: The underlying consciousness can not be intellectualized, but what is referred to as the "I Am" is a mental state and an appearance in consciousness. Nisargadatta's shtick is to apprehend the personal objective "I Am" which will lead one to the non-objective Absolute. There is the knowledge "I Am' and the "I", that is the eye that cant see itself. The former is an appearing mental state. The latter may not be a mental state, but since one cant know it, we cant categorize it. The Buddhists who meditate on consciousness say the even the consciousness changes in subtle ways. Best Regards, Alton > That's precisely the point. Neither am I talking about relative > knowledge of 'I as something' which is a mental state. > > The original post says > QUOTE> The "I Am" sense of conscious presence is a false> self-deception of an entity, which really do not exist> UNQUOTE> > In advaita circle, the clause '"I Am" sense of conscious presence' > has been rephrased differently by different teachers. Maharaj uses 'I > amness', Ramana Maharshi calls it 'I-I radiation' and Atmananda calls > the same as 'I principle'. I do not know how the Budhhists interpret > this.> > This 'I am sense' cannot be a mental state as the existence of mind > entirely depends on it. The 'I am sense' stands all by itself as the > background whether the mind appears or not but the other way around > is impossible. The mind can never comprehend the 'I am sense'. It can > only infer. It is the Knowing (Awareness) which knows the mind and > it's states. And that Knowing is what 'I am'. And, that knowledge > which is continous Knowing only (not as stored informtaion) is the 'I > am sense'.> > Similarly 'false self-deception of an entity' only confirms the > reality of 'I am sense' because first the 'I am sense' has to be > there so that the false entity (I am so-and-so) can apparently exist > to self-deceive or self-assert.> > > But, if the phrase ["I Am" sense of conscious presence] in the > original post indicates merely as the identification of a personal > existance (during waking and dreaming) then the question is withdrawn.> > > > > > I can't think of a better answer than this to your> > question because the answer depends on how> > you choose to define the words "state" and> > "knowledge." These aren't precise technical> > terms. They are used inconsistently in books> > about these subjects.> > > True. The Knowledge in this context is synonymous with Awareness. > > > > > > > - > > "Murali" <murali@g...>> > <Realization >> > Friday, October 15, 2004 11:14 AM> > Re: The " I Am" a Mental State?> > > > > > > > > > > > > The context is your title - 'The " I Am" a Mental State?'> > > > > > The quote is - 'I am the KNOWLEDGE I am'> > > > > > The question - 'Is KNOWING a mental state?'> > > > > > > > > The sense of I AM is the KNOWLDEGE that I AM. The Self(Atma) is > > > Knowledge(Jnanam) alone. It is this KNOWING which knows the mind. > In > > > that case Knowing cannot be a mental state as the capacity of > KNOWING > > > has to be there prior to the mind. > > > > > > Now, is KNOWING which is sense of I AM, a mental state?'> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hi Sam: I hope this helps. Love, Alton A mental state is an infinitely short duration state which can visualized as a matrix of information of various mental inputs, characteristics & qualities eg. greed & hate doubt & ignorance (in all a matrix of 152 x 89). It ceases as soon as it has arisen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 phhhhttt - Alton Alton Realization Saturday, October 23, 2004 5:33 AM Re: The " I Am" a Mental State? Hi Sam:I hope this helps.Love,AltonA mental state is an infinitely short durationstate which can visualized as a matrix of information of various mental inputs, characteristics & qualities eg. greed & hate doubt & ignorance (in all a matrix of 152 x 89).It ceases as soon as it has arisen.............INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.