Guest guest Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 1. All teachings, recording, books etc are given freely. No copyrights on any materials. 2. No contributions or gifts will be accepted. If any are submitted they will be forwarded to the following. The local Nazi party. The KKK. Or the U.S party that won the recent elections. 3. The perfect guru is celibate and never can have children to take over their mission. A woman guru will her tubes tied, a male guru will have a vasectomy or be castrated. 4. The perfect guru shall never be in a room or auto alone with only one person. I got that one from the Rev. Billy Graham. 5. The perfect guru will always be available 24 hours per day. When s/he is sleeping devotees may touch her/him. 6. The perfect guru shall bless same sex marriages as well has hetero ones. 7. The perfect guru if s/he has an ashram will fund it entirely with stock market or futures money. 8. The perfect guru will take on all the negative karma of her/his initiates. 9. The perfect guru shall have no secret teachings. 10. The perfect guru will accept all those who wish to be her or his sheep. 11. The perfect guru will tell all that s/he is the CHRIST and that the Second coming is here right now. 12. The perfect guru will specify that no religion may be created after departing. 13. The perfect guru will answer all questions that are submitted. 14. The perfect guru shall submit to testing by the scientists. 15. The perfect guru will tell in great detail about their meditation experiences and the Order of the Universe and the creation. 16. The perfect guru will either perform or assist in ABORTIONS if the woman becomes pregnant because of rape or incest or to save the life of the mother. 17. The perfect guru will have humility as demonstrated by her/his proclaiming that s/he is not different or separate from all beings. 18. The perfect guru will never correct anyone’s data or opinions only drawing a longer line for explanations. 19. The perfect guru will never let anyone bow down to them or kiss her/his feet. 20. The perfect guru will bow down to all that appear and kiss their feet. 21: The perfect guru will never take anesthetic for dental work or any operation. 22. The perfect guru will take no medicines for any illness even one that is terminal like Cancer 23. The perfect guru will never cry out because of pain. 24. The perfect guru will have a complete understanding of the creation; God and the first cause and be able to communicate it. 25. The perfect guru will have periodic fasts of 40 to 180 days at least once per year. This is a demonstration that s/he is not the body and is able to live with out body sustenance. 26. The perfect guru must have siddhis ( powers). Those powers may include healing the sick, curing all mental problems including schizophrenia, levitating, having all the knowledge of the universe available to him or her, wiping out negative karmas for devotees and the ability to transmit Enlightenment with a glance. And if any of the above should occur the perfect guru will deny that they had anything to do with it. 27. When it is time to depart the guru's body will become a rainbow body and return to the Infinite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Please, kindly, a few questions before I to your group: Who are you people? What possible relationship do you have with www.realization.org? Why do you speak so disrespectfully of me? Thank you, Namaste, Dipamkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 > What possible relationship do you have with www.realization.org? I am the editor and publisher of it (or was before I stopped adding new material about three years ago). There was a time when several people who wrote for the site occasionally read and posted messages here, but so far as I know all of them are gone. This forum has been pretty much moribund for over a year. > Why do you speak so disrespectfully of me? I assume you are referring to the message that preceded yours in this thread, Alton's (KK's) "The Perfect Guru." I'll let Alton answer your question himself. If this indeed is what you are asking about, I'm curious to know why you think Alton's message was directed at you. By the way, messages that show disrespect to individuals are not permitted here. However, people are allowed to say anything they want about God, religion, the Guru, etc. Best wishes, Rob - Derek Taulman Realization Tuesday, November 16, 2004 3:43 PM Re: The Perfect Guru..Final Version Please, kindly, a few questions before I to your group: Who are you people? What possible relationship do you have with www.realization.org? Why do you speak so disrespectfully of me? Thank you, Namaste, Dipamkara..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Hello Rob, Thank you for your nice reply. Realization.org is a great site. Are you saying that you are no longer associated with the site, or just not the editor? It seems there is new material, current information and interviews being added to it. Are you the founder and creator of the site and are now doing something different? Sounds like you remember great times in the past when your forum must have been very active. My earthly name is Derek. I am writing this note to you personally, not for part of the "thread". My comments to Alton's "Guru" messages are intended to be combined with his in the thread... but I guess I don't know how to do that exactly... computers are still new to me. He has an "interesting" monologue going there about "The Perfect Guru".... They are quite humorous. So, as "The Perfect Guru", I was responding to his long list of funny qualities that, I guess, he perceives as requisite characteristics of such a person were such a person to exist... not really as personal disrespect at all, were such a thing possible.... I certainly do not want to appear disrespectful to Alton either. Just consider my attempt at dialog as comments in the category of expedient means... a finger pointing to the moon? Consistent with "The Diamond Sutra", there can be no such thing as a Guru... jijimuge.... Well, I see there are many more replies in my in-box since you sent this one.... I will try to get to them. Respectfully, Dipamkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Dear Dipamkara: " They are quite humorous. So, as " The Perfect Guru " , I was responding to his long list of funny qualities that, I guess, he perceives as requisite characteristics of such a person were such a person to exist... not really as personal disrespect at all, were such a thing possible.... " I could give you a ton of reasons why I do these posts, but I will only give one. ITS FUN FOR ME. My wife says my eyes light up when I do this stuff. Some people like my sense of humor and maybe most dont, but I wont let the RED NECKS thwart my right to free speech. The moderators can do it because they own the group, but since Rob said he wont ban me I will continue. I do wish those who react and are offended would have a dialogue with me on each item that offends. If those who are offended look into themselves they will see that their devotion is sorely lacking or they would not react. If someone calls me a fat slob would I react knowing I am a slim jim? No of course not because there is not an ounce of truth in that accusation. Not all the Indian devotees bristle with my takes. I have one Indian devotee friend that I communicates with me each night on skype.com. He likes my honesty. Love to all, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Dear KK-aka-Alton-aka-MT, Rob, and all my other precious, blessed human brethren and sisteren, Namaste! Alton, I can tell it is fun for you! I had fun reading them! I can just see you with a smile on your face and your eyes lit up, as you say. I like your sense of humor, also, it seems similar to my own - subtle "tongue-in-cheek?" My goodness, just three simple questions and what a reaction. I really am curious who you all are. Wouldn't it be nice if all those with whom one can carry on meaningful dialog lived within walking distance from each other and you could get together once or more a week and share insights over a meditation cushion and a warm Guinness.... I enjoy www.realization.org and wondered how this site, your forum, was related to so many more other interesting information presented there. Now, as to my last question, "Why do you speak so disrespectfully of me?" It was merely intended to point out the duality infusing the underlying concepts of your "Perfect Guru"/"Perfect Devotee [Chela]" lists. I appreciate the humor of them both, in fact, Chela and I went to separate high schools together, lolololol:). But, in hopes of developing more dialog of a serious nature with you and Rob and others who might be seekers as well, some may not understand some of the subtleties of your enumerations. I was not offended by either of your posts. I would think that "The Perfect Guru", if there were such a thing, might be offended; and, in that sense, the sense that we are all each other [jijmuge], then when one disrespects one, all are disrespected, if we stay within your framework of duality wherein exists the realm of name and form and conditioned arising. However, I believe you will find there is nothing to be offended nor disrespected ["The Way of the Bodhisattva" Shantideva]. Both the "orthodox" and "heterodox" lineages of Indian philosophy, except, perhaps for the Carvaka and Nyaya, have at their root a belief in the ultimate oneness of existence: the Atman in Brahman; or the "form is emptiness, emptiness is no other than form" [The Heart Sutra].... Some may not agree to that statement. Nevertheless, the heart of the Upanishads is a search for the understanding of the oneness of all existence with Brahman. The Buddhist samsara is nirvana, nirvana is samsara. And how do they all relate to one another? Through "Love." Perhaps that would be the essence, phenomenologically speaking, of being human, being able to love and be loved; and for other phenomena, telos? But, what stands in the way? The "EGO", my friends. And Alton, speaking of "hot buttons", I certainly must have hit one of yours attached to a long history, sorry. I will cut this short and leave you with one challenge - think of this, solve this and perhaps some things might become clearer: wherever you conceive/perceive/believe your "SELF/Self/self"/ego/identity to reside, there will be the center of your suffering, also. Let it go. Please accept these attachments with love and honor. Respectfully, Dipamkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Dearest Dipamkara: First I want to thank you for the Buddhism stuff. I was looking for the best versions and these that you supplied were great. Luckily somehow sends them to my e-email so that I was able to save them. Now on the groups wont let you send attachments. If I could contact (they make it almost impossible) I would tell them to charge the list owner so that attachments could be sent, if the list owner agrees. I would pay $20 per year for that service. I seem to have become interested in Buddhism as Advaita is getting like "old hat" now. Re: Re: The Perfect Guru..Final Version Dear KK-aka-Alton-aka-MT, Rob, and all my other precious, blessed human brethren and sisteren, Namaste! Alton, I can tell it is fun for you! I had fun reading them! I can just see you with a smile on your face and your eyes lit up, as you say. I like your sense of humor, also, it seems similar to my own - subtle "tongue-in-cheek?" It also happens to mostly be the standards I will set for myself if in the event that the Mysterious Power deems it thus. Not the really weird ones but most of the others. Once you accept money for your misson or your ashram, donors want something in return at least in a spiritual way and I then would not be a pure vessel. My goodness, just three simple questions and what a reaction. I really am curious who you all are. Wouldn't it be nice if all those with whom one can carry on meaningful dialog lived within walking distance from each other and you could get together once or more a week and share insights over a meditation cushion and a warm Guinness.... Yes it would and last Sunday at our group meditation the one who led the groups had us tell about our meditation or why we meditate. That is when the journey comes alive. If you want to talk sometimes download www.skype.com. It is the greatest program that I have experienced. My user name is lostnfoundation. Free computer to computer phone calls with sound better and clearer than the land phones. It comes with an instant messenger and a file sharing program, so while you are talking you can send huge files too. It's free unless you want to call a land phone and then only a few cents per minute. I bought a USB logitech headset which I use for the Naturally Speaking voice rec program also. I talk to people around the world and made a terrific Muslim friend living in Mozambique. I told him I came from Jewish parentage and it did not matter at all. Some followers of religious have a universal type consciousness and he definitely does. Another good friend is Professor Majid who is a Muslim and head of the Toda peace institute here in Honolulu. I enjoy www.realization.org and wondered how this site, your forum, was related to so many more other interesting information presented there. Now, as to my last question, "Why do you speak so disrespectfully of me?" It was merely intended to point out the duality infusing the underlying concepts of your "Perfect Guru"/"Perfect Devotee [Chela]" lists. I appreciate the humor of them both, in fact, Chela and I went to separate high schools together, lolololol:). But, in hopes of developing more dialog of a serious nature with you and Rob and others who might be seekers as well, some may not understand some of the subtleties of your enumerations. I was not offended by either of your posts. I would think that "The Perfect Guru", if there were such a thing, might be offended; and, in that sense, the sense that we are all each other [jijmuge], then when one disrespects one, all are disrespected, if we stay within your framework of duality wherein exists the realm of name and form and conditioned arising. However, I believe you will find there is nothing to be offended nor disrespected ["The Way of the Bodhisattva" Shantideva]. It would be great for Rob to share his meditation obstacles and progress with the group and anyone else, but that is generally not done, probably because of fear of being accused of having an EGO; which you know is the poison word around the spiritual town. I am always willing to share though, but all I really can share in the gift of Intensity that I got from a lot of Scorpio energy in my chart. Both the "orthodox" and "heterodox" lineages of Indian philosophy, except, perhaps for the Carvaka and Nyaya, have at their root a belief in the ultimate oneness of existence: the Atman in Brahman; or the "form is emptiness, emptiness is no other than form" [The Heart Sutra].... Some may not agree to that statement. Nevertheless, the heart of the Upanishads is a search for the understanding of the oneness of all existence with Brahman. The Buddhist samsara is nirvana, nirvana is samsara. And how do they all relate to one another? Through "Love." Perhaps that would be the essence, phenomenologically speaking, of being human, being able to love and be loved; and for other phenomena, telos? But, what stands in the way? The "EGO", my friends. And Alton, speaking of "hot buttons", I certainly must have hit one of yours attached to a long history, sorry. If you push my buttons any one of them I will hug you, love you more and more than you can imagine. What the hell to you think I am doing on the groups. It is to find those reactive buttons and disable them or neutralize them. I have to say I have made a lot of progress the past thirty years but there is still more to go, mostly I lose some of my joy and equanimity when my body in not up to snuff. Someday hopefully soon I will rise above body consciousness so that when the body is crashing it wont effect my mental states of beingness one iota. The first time when I got banned on Hasha for challenging Harsha after he bashed Vijay on the Ramana group, I was unable to sleep because of that attachment. Now this time I really did not react on this group. I will cut this short and leave you with one challenge - think of this, solve this and perhaps some things might become clearer: wherever you conceive/perceive/believe your "SELF/Self/self"/ego/identity to reside, there will be the center of your suffering, also. Ok I like that. Love is all you kneed and we are baking bread after grinding flour with our just received grain mill from Korea. It is all one can imaging in a grain mill Alton and aka's Let it go. Please accept these attachments with love and honor. Respectfully, Dipamkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Hi Derek, Sorry for the delayed reply. > Are you saying that you are no longer associated with > the site, or just not the editor? Neither. I'm saying that I don't actually do any editing nowadays since I decided several years ago to stop making additions and additions to the site. > It seems there is new material, current information and > interviews being added to it. I stopped adding material in October 2001. There was one exception to this. I added a scholarly article on the history of practice in Advaita Vedanta in March 2004 because it happened to focus on a question that is of interest to me personally. Best wishes, Rob - Derek Taulman Realization Wednesday, November 17, 2004 10:48 AM Re: The Perfect Guru..Final Version Hello Rob, Thank you for your nice reply. Realization.org is a great site. Are you saying that you are no longer associated with the site, or just not the editor? It seems there is new material, current information and interviews being added to it. Are you the founder and creator of the site and are now doing something different? Sounds like you remember great times in the past when your forum must have been very active. My earthly name is Derek. I am writing this note to you personally, not for part of the "thread". My comments to Alton's "Guru" messages are intended to be combined with his in the thread... but I guess I don't know how to do that exactly... computers are still new to me. He has an "interesting" monologue going there about "The Perfect Guru".... They are quite humorous. So, as "The Perfect Guru", I was responding to his long list of funny qualities that, I guess, he perceives as requisite characteristics of such a person were such a person to exist... not really as personal disrespect at all, were such a thing possible.... I certainly do not want to appear disrespectful to Alton either. Just consider my attempt at dialog as comments in the category of expedient means... a finger pointing to the moon? Consistent with "The Diamond Sutra", there can be no such thing as a Guru... jijimuge.... Well, I see there are many more replies in my in-box since you sent this one.... I will try to get to them. Respectfully, Dipamkara ..........INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST..........Email addresses: Post message: Realization Un: Realization- Our web address: http://www.realization.orgBy sending a message to this list, you are givingpermission to have it reproduced as a letter onhttp://www.realization.org................................................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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