Guest guest Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Hi Alton, I’m glad to hear that you had such a good time at the retreat. Thanks Rob: What was it like to be aware of pain? First there is that aversion that is more than almost anything one experiences except a panic attack, which usually has some locus in the body also. It is a craving for a non painful state of body and mind. Then you use your will power and previous teachings and information to stay with it. What I noticed was with the worst pain the mind will often wonder and the pain disappears at least for a short period. Then I wondered why it all of a sudden disappeared. With some of the pain it actually left for a longer period of time. Also one could feel pulsations, burning and like that part of you was put in a vise. Of course certain pain is an indication that a part of the body in under destruction and if you dont take care of it you will pay the price of not being able to use that part in functional activity like you would if you did not damage it. Our teacher told of us of 10 hour sitting in Myanmar where one is not allowed to move at all. That sure interested me but I would wear a Depend. LOL Actually Aiken Roshi the founder of the Palolo Zen center is very old and needs 24 hour nursing care. He came to one of the lectures. Years ago he told us the his students only meditate for 1/2 hour at a time and then walk around in a circle, because he said that a large percentage of the longer term meditators have nerve damage. We meditated with him 15 years ago. I dont believe that is true, but one has to judge whether the pain is good pain or bad pain. I have too much intensity so that I have damaged my body since I was 15 many times. Now that I am pushing 70 I have to be more careful. with the focusing on pain and with great powers of concentration and mindfulness the elements may be pierced and no self and impermanence called insight is experienced. The non self is really the Self in Advaita as I understand it. Someday I may just experience the pain no matter what, especially if I have no more karmic responsibilities. I am back to using some of Ramana's tech now but dont tell the Buddhists. Actually all Ramana's tech is also part of Buddhism, i.e awareness watching awareness, the forth foundation of mindfulness. Were you able to be more aware of sensations than usual? Yes, because all that attention makes one more aware of various sensations going in in the body. By the way, why didn’t you do the Goenka retreat? I think it’s free. Firstly I did not know about it. Where was it happening? And this center is only 15 minutes away from home and my wife does not drive and happened to break her patella with a fall at the supermarket. Now that I have my wife planning to join me we will check buddhanet for retreats. Thanks for asking. Alton Jnana..That is more of a wish then an actuality. -- Robbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2005 Report Share Posted May 11, 2005 Hi Alton, I looked at pictures of Palolo Zen Center on its website … beautiful. Makes me want to move out there. Why in the world am I living in New York City? You already know about Goenka’s retreats from the prison movie you liked so much. That’s a Goenka program in the movie. The prisoners were doing pretty much the same program that you or I or anyone can do for free in any Goenka center all over the world. From the Goenka website: “There are no charges for the courses - not even to cover the cost of food and accommodation. All expenses are met by donations from people who, having completed a course and experienced the benefits of Vipassana, wish to give others the opportunity to also benefit.” Here’s a webpage for Goenka stuff in Hawaii: http://www.hi.us.dhamma.org/ Your description of watching pain is very interesting. Usually you write about your activities but here you were writing about your inner experiences. It’s a whole new side of Alton coming to light for the reading public to enjoy. J I’ve spent many hours of my life watching pain too. Not because I wanted to, but because I’ve had severe headaches several times a month since I was ten years old, and while they are happening nothing can be done except (a) look at the pain and wonder about it, or (b) try to sleep through it, or © try to let my attention be taken up by thoughts and fantasies so I won’t be aware of the pain for a while. (Actually these headaches are largely a thing of the past for me, because a drug was invented about ten years ago that takes most of the pain away.) I have no idea whether the inspection of pain is more or less effective than other methods of meditation, but I’ll tell you one thing that I’m 100% sure of: Pain sucks, and if I had a choice, I’d pick some other meditation method that doesn’t hurt. J Cheers old bud, Robbie Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Alton Jnana Wednesday, May 11, 2005 1:53 AM REALIZATION ROB'S Vipasana retreat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Hi Rob: My computer died so I am using my wife's office computer, which is a Mac and not as fast as my Dell. > > > I looked at pictures of Palolo Zen Center on its website . beautiful. Makes > me want to move out there. Why in the world am I living in New York City? If you got the bucks then come here. Rent is high but you will never have to buy any clothes for the rest of your life. I wear shorts and T shirt year round. The air and blue sky the weather is unexelled and in most areas the people are friendly. Compared to N.Y.C the rent is not that high. At first you will be too hot until your blood thins. It got very warm the last few days, but there is generally trades going most of the time. I will take warm weather over cold anytime. Remember I grew up on L.I. and would never want to life in the cold climes again. > > > > You already know about Goenka's retreats from the prison movie you liked so > much. That's a Goenka program in the movie. The prisoners were doing > pretty much the same program that you or I or anyone can do for free in any > Goenka center all over the world. From the Goenka website: Thanks for the Goenka link. I will look at it as soon as I get the new Dell which I will order tomorrow. If I dont make it as a DayTrader I will have to get a job to pay for it. > > > > " There are no charges for the courses - not even to cover the cost of food > and accommodation. All expenses are met by donations from people who, having > completed a course and experienced the benefits of Vipassana, wish to give > others the opportunity to also benefit. " The fees for the Palolo retreat were to pay the Zendo, flight fare for the teacher and food. No one made any money and I suspect Dr Huyhn and his wife must have funded some of it. they gave us 3 meals and in the free retreats I dont think you eat solid food after the noon meal. > > > > Here's a webpage for Goenka stuff in Hawaii: Thanks much. i still can get a hit when I recall that film, Doing Time Doing Vipassana. Basically all these meditations have the same endpoint, that is a silent aware mind. I realized today that I have been dreaming during my 27 years of two hours per day meditation and I am going to stop doing it. I notice that when I meditate with eyes open I have much more power to not get identified with dream thinking. I am using an LED to keep my mind present. Those who are not giffted will spin their wheels from a number of lifetimes unless they first develop concentration attention power. Call it trance capacity. The gradient is way too high for meditationally challenged folks like yours truly. I have that attitude to kick the butt of this discursive talking to itself mind before I crap out. I am working with Ramana's I thoughts again and seem very centered with lot of unexected stuff going on here. About experiencing pain. It is all in ones attitude. When I was a weightlifter I took a lot of pain and now I would not want to because I dont have the right attitude for it, but for meditation I will take as much pain as necessary to score Realization. > > > > <http://www.hi.us.dhamma.org/> http://www.hi.us.dhamma.org/ > > > > Your description of watching pain is very interesting. Usually you write > about your activities but here you were writing about your inner > experiences. It's a whole new side of Alton coming to light for the reading > public to enjoy. :-) Thanks, and I can do more of it. Do you think your members will react and leave the group like that have with my CREATIVITY? lol. > > > > I've spent many hours of my life watching pain too. Not because I wanted > to, but because I've had severe headaches several times a month since I was > ten years old, and while they are happening nothing can be done except (a) > look at the pain and wonder about it, or (b) try to sleep through it, or © > try to let my attention be taken up by thoughts and fantasies so I won't be > aware of the pain for a while. (Actually these headaches are largely a > thing of the past for me, because a drug was invented about ten years ago > that takes most of the pain away.) If the drug does not zonk you so that you cant focus then it is a boon for you. > > > > I have no idea whether the inspection of pain is more or less effective > than other methods of meditation, but I'll tell you one thing that I'm 100% > sure of: > > > > Pain sucks, and if I had a choice, I'd pick some other meditation method > that doesn't hurt. :-) There is always pain but not always suffering because of it. Do you suffer? > > > > Cheers old bud, Same to you, Alton > > > > Robbie > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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