Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 During group interviews at the 8 day July Vipassana retreat taking place at the Palolo Zen center, I said to the teacher that I had a chip implanted in my head that sends thoughts and mental state data to a wireless computer. Of course I was putting the teacher Graham White on a bit, but the technology to accomplish that is near at hand. Ray Kurtzweil recently stated that computing power is now powerful enough to reverse engineer the human brain. Along with the recent accelerated development in neurological technology, the Modern Buddha (who surely will appear within a reasonable time period) is about to present breakthrough technology and teachings that will shorten the period of meditation training for enlightenment to as little as one month. One wont have to be reborn for many lifetimes in order to attain moksha. We will be able to see all our thoughts appear on a computer screen instantly, after the meditation period is completed or during our waking and dreaming life. We will have a number of choices: A gentle signal when our minds are generating unsolicited thoughts. A cattle prod type shock that will use stimulus and response type electrical jolts. When extraneous thoughts become so painful, the fragmented 'I' thinkers who speak out of turn, will get some hard lessons in how to behave during meditation and during the day's experience. A spaced out wondering mind will no longer exist except as history. A present time aware mind is now our destiny All the mental states that happened during the meditation session also will appear on a computer screen and be correlated with each individual thought. Mindfulness, which the Buddha has offered as the only way to attain liberation, will accelerate exponentially with technological assistance. The modern Buddha will have monasteries equipped with the aforesaid hardware and software. So that the technology does not get into the wrong hands or be given to those who will use it for personal power, only monks and nuns that qualify after being fully vetted will be admitted to the Modern Buddha's quick technological Enlightenment Religious order. After a period of qualification, the weightless meditation room will also be available to monks and nuns; of course in separate rooms. In that room, one is fed intravenously so that in a month of constant meditation moksha is assured. I hope that very soon I will be able to name her. Buddha's quick technological order No more auto mental recorder Shocks will make you that aware So you'll have no need for prayer Nirvana is now your earthly fate No more rebirths of love and hate Addendum During my meditation practice it came through to me that a pleasure reward after each time a moment of mindfulness occured, would work much better. So if one holds a counter in one's hand and after each time a moment of mindfulness kicked in to let us know that our minds were wondering, we would enter one click. For each click or count we would later reward ourselves with something pleasurable. If we were a female it could be a chocolate. If we were a male it may be something that a male finds pleaurable. This would reinforce that mindfulness moment so that it happens eventually as soon as one is not in the present time. Here is some other stuff that this is based on. http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_31/b3945019.htmVOICES OF INNOVATION Raymond C. Kurzweil: Prophet Of Longevity Inventor-entrepreneur-author Raymond C. Kurzweil is keeping his eye on the year 2030. He'll turn 82 that year -- and with luck, he'll cross a threshold to some form of immortality. By 2030, Kurzweil believes, biomedical technology will have advanced to the point where it will be possible to halt the body's aging process. Tiny robots the size of red blood cells will patrol our circulatory systems and rejuvenate tired cells. Soon after that, around 2050, we should be able to reverse-engineer a human brain and upload it into a robot. People willing to give up their "wet" bodies -- we're 50% to 60% water -- could not only live forever but also think at electronic speeds.That was the vision Kurzweil presented in his fifth book, Fantastic Voyage: Live Long Enough to Live Forever, published last fall. If it all sounds too fantastic, be warned: Kurzweil has been making wild pronouncements for two decades and hasn't been grossly wrong yet. In his first book, The Age of Intelligent Machines, written in 1988 and published in 1990, he foresaw a worldwide computer network in a few years -- and the Web emerged in 1991. The book also predicted a computer would defeat the world's chess champion by 1998, and IBM's (IBM ) Deep Blue humbled Garry Kasparov in 1997."I'm not pulling these dates out of the air," Kurzweil says. At Kurzweil Technologies Inc., "I have 18 people gathering key data," tracking 50 technical disciplines. In most, tech progress is doubling every 12 to 15 months -- faster even than the advancing power of computer chips. "Most people don't appreciate what such exponential growth means. That's why they don't realize how dramatic the next few decades will be." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Dearest Brothers in love, Rob and Michael: Rob first. 30 years ago would you have called talking on a Dick Tracy cell phone and be able to contact anyone on the planet, even behind walls if they had a similar device; science fiction? Would you call it science fiction if I told you I could type in anyone's address on a program called google earth and see the building where they lived in a few seconds? I did that with my mom's condo in Florida. How about producing sheep without the male sperm? Soon we will be able to clone 100's of immaculate conception Christ's. I could go on and on but I know you are very smart so this is enough. Michael now: When my wife was studying for the CA bar we went over a case about mistaken identities called the S.S. Pierce. So please tell me about your concept of Realization? What is it and how does one abide in it? Is the ability to concentrate helpful? Once it happens is that all there is as far as the spiritual journey? After I get some replies I will elaborate more about the spiritual journey vis a vis the uploaded brain. With all the love that the highest of the high, Ramana grants me. Your unconditional eternal friend, Alton p.s Since this is an open group I am posting it on Exclusive also. And enclosed is a nice shot that our friend took a week ago. Those on emails can get it. - Rob Sacks Realization Monday, August 01, 2005 5:20 AM RE: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dear Michael, > WHAT HAS ALL THIS NONSENSE TO DO WITH > so-called REALIZATION? > realized being live in inner stillness It has absolutely nothing to do with realization. Can you imagine going to a Vipassana retreat, which is designed to help people engage in attention without thoughts, and then, when you tell people about it, all you do is talk about science fiction concepts? Stepping into those shoes is a trip and a half. -- Rob still astonished what human brain can produce? just look at the result regarding being happy and contend with all this techno-stuff WHAT HAS ALL THIS NON-SENSE TO DO WITH socalled REALIZATION? realized being live in inner stillness have a good time in love in GD michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Dear Alton, > Would you call it science fiction if I told you I could > type in anyone's address on a program called google earth... You are trying to coax me into a conversation about whether Kurzweil's predictions are likely to come true. If this were a mail group about neuroscience or technology or artificial intelligence or Vernon Vinge's books, then I'd be happy to jump into the conversation on your terms. But this mail group is about realization. Therefore the overwhelmingly obvious point is the following: Thinking about this stuff is not sadhana. It's the opposite of sadhana. Thinking about this kind of stuff doesn't make your mind quiet. Thinking about this stuff is noise. Your friend, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo KashaMonday, August 01, 2005 3:20 PMRealization Subject: Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dearest Brothers in love, Rob and Michael: Rob first. 30 years ago would you have called talking on a Dick Tracy cell phone and be able to contact anyone on the planet, even behind walls if they had a similar device; science fiction? Would you call it science fiction if I told you I could type in anyone's address on a program called google earth and see the building where they lived in a few seconds? I did that with my mom's condo in Florida. How about producing sheep without the male sperm? Soon we will be able to clone 100's of immaculate conception Christ's. I could go on and on but I know you are very smart so this is enough. Michael now: When my wife was studying for the CA bar we went over a case about mistaken identities called the S.S. Pierce. So please tell me about your concept of Realization? What is it and how does one abide in it? Is the ability to concentrate helpful? Once it happens is that all there is as far as the spiritual journey? After I get some replies I will elaborate more about the spiritual journey vis a vis the uploaded brain. With all the love that the highest of the high, Ramana grants me. Your unconditional eternal friend, Alton p.s Since this is an open group I am posting it on Exclusive also. And enclosed is a nice shot that our friend took a week ago. Those on emails can get it. - Rob Sacks Realization Monday, August 01, 2005 5:20 AM RE: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dear Michael, > WHAT HAS ALL THIS NONSENSE TO DO WITH > so-called REALIZATION? > realized being live in inner stillness It has absolutely nothing to do with realization. Can you imagine going to a Vipassana retreat, which is designed to help people engage in attention without thoughts, and then, when you tell people about it, all you do is talk about science fiction concepts? Stepping into those shoes is a trip and a half. -- Rob still astonished what human brain can produce? just look at the result regarding being happy and contend with all this techno-stuff WHAT HAS ALL THIS NON-SENSE TO DO WITH socalled REALIZATION? realized being live in inner stillness have a good time in love in GD michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Offering hope for those who have not Realized and wont this lifetime or any lifetime in the future is relevant IMHO, but since this is your group, I now surrender and wont reply when Michael posts his reply. The is the prime reason why I have a group. Love, Alton Dear Alton, > Would you call it science fiction if I told you I could > type in anyone's address on a program called google earth... You are trying to coax me into a conversation about whether Kurzweil's predictions are likely to come true. If this were a mail group about neuroscience or technology or artificial intelligence or Vernon Vinge's books, then I'd be happy to jump into the conversation on your terms. But this mail group is about realization. Therefore the overwhelmingly obvious point is the following: Thinking about this stuff is not sadhana. It's the opposite of sadhana. Thinking about this kind of stuff doesn't make your mind quiet. Thinking about this stuff is noise. Your friend, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo KashaMonday, August 01, 2005 3:20 PMRealization Subject: Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dearest Brothers in love, Rob and Michael: Rob first. 30 years ago would you have called talking on a Dick Tracy cell phone and be able to contact anyone on the planet, even behind walls if they had a similar device; science fiction? Would you call it science fiction if I told you I could type in anyone's address on a program called google earth and see the building where they lived in a few seconds? I did that with my mom's condo in Florida. How about producing sheep without the male sperm? Soon we will be able to clone 100's of immaculate conception Christ's. I could go on and on but I know you are very smart so this is enough. Michael now: When my wife was studying for the CA bar we went over a case about mistaken identities called the S.S. Pierce. So please tell me about your concept of Realization? What is it and how does one abide in it? Is the ability to concentrate helpful? Once it happens is that all there is as far as the spiritual journey? After I get some replies I will elaborate more about the spiritual journey vis a vis the uploaded brain. With all the love that the highest of the high, Ramana grants me. Your unconditional eternal friend, Alton p.s Since this is an open group I am posting it on Exclusive also. And enclosed is a nice shot that our friend took a week ago. Those on emails can get it. - Rob Sacks Realization Monday, August 01, 2005 5:20 AM RE: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dear Michael, > WHAT HAS ALL THIS NONSENSE TO DO WITH > so-called REALIZATION? > realized being live in inner stillness It has absolutely nothing to do with realization. Can you imagine going to a Vipassana retreat, which is designed to help people engage in attention without thoughts, and then, when you tell people about it, all you do is talk about science fiction concepts? Stepping into those shoes is a trip and a half. -- Rob still astonished what human brain can produce? just look at the result regarding being happy and contend with all this techno-stuff WHAT HAS ALL THIS NON-SENSE TO DO WITH socalled REALIZATION? realized being live in inner stillness have a good time in love in GD michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hi Alton, You can talk about anything you want here. If you want to post messages about artificial intelligence and Kurzweill and so forth, go ahead. I'm just pointing out that when you engage in that kind of thinking and writing, it's a way of avoiding having a quiet mind. You could be quiet if you wanted to. Your friend, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo KashaMonday, August 01, 2005 6:26 PMRealization Subject: Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Offering hope for those who have not Realized and wont this lifetime or any lifetime in the future is relevant IMHO, but since this is your group, I now surrender and wont reply when Michael posts his reply. The is the prime reason why I have a group. Love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I already did three hours of practice and until I finish my family work I will play around and have fun. When the time comes for 24 hour a day quiet, I may have quit the groups. Ok then I will dialogue with Michael. Sorry for taking away your quietude. Metta, Alton - Rob Sacks Realization Monday, August 01, 2005 12:32 PM RE: The Modern Buddha with addendum Hi Alton, You can talk about anything you want here. If you want to post messages about artificial intelligence and Kurzweill and so forth, go ahead. I'm just pointing out that when you engage in that kind of thinking and writing, it's a way of avoiding having a quiet mind. You could be quiet if you wanted to. Your friend, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 > Sorry for taking away your quietude. You didn't and you can't. The only person who can take away my quietude is me. Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo KashaMonday, August 01, 2005 6:47 PMRealization Subject: Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum I already did three hours of practice and until I finish my family work I will play around and have fun. When the time comes for 24 hour a day quiet, I may have quit the groups. Ok then I will dialogue with Michael. Sorry for taking away your quietude. Metta, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 - Rob Sacks Realization Monday, August 01, 2005 1:02 PM RE: The Modern Buddha with addendum > Sorry for taking away your quietude. You didn't and you can't. The only person who can take away my quietude is me. Good that the buck stopped with Rob: I am hoping they stop with Alton for the next retreat with this alternative stock. ENER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Dearest Michael: We both have our own takes on Realization, Enlightenment and everything else, dictated by conditioning, and the unique combination of the qualities. So I have to hang in there until the technology appears so that I can upload my consciousness and it infinite content into a super computer that will rid me of my conditioning and provide a powerful enough mind to do anything, including debating with Rob and Michael, but you two will decline because you two erroneously think that a quiet mind cant debate issues. Did you read the latest scientific report in the N.Y. Times that stated that our bodies are only 8 to 10 years old because of the renewal processes.? Love, Me Dear Alton first you wrote you would not answer if michael answers.......... second as michael is not "realized" no sense of talking about it third what counts is the way of life you and i live fullpoint fourth authenticity is IT in love in GD michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Dear Alton, > but you two will decline because you two erroneously > think that a quiet mind cant debate issues. That's not what I think. What I think is that losing yourself in pleasant fantasies about things that you do not have is day dreaming. Some men daydream about having sex with beautiful women; other men daydream that they have a billion dollars. And some men daydream that they have a computer that does their meditation for them. It's all the same. Realization means you wake up. Daydreaming means you enjoy being asleep. > Did you read the latest scientific report in the N.Y. > Times that stated that our bodies are only 8 to 10 > years old because of the renewal processes.? Yes I read the article. What it said was that the average age of the cells in our body is 8 to 10 years. If you think that means your body is 8 to 10 years old, you need to take a good hard look in the mirror. Realistically, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo KashaThursday, August 04, 2005 1:59 AMRealization Subject: Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dearest Michael: We both have our own takes on Realization, Enlightenment and everything else, dictated by conditioning, and the unique combination of the qualities. So I have to hang in there until the technology appears so that I can upload my consciousness and it infinite content into a super computer that will rid me of my conditioning and provide a powerful enough mind to do anything, including debating with Rob and Michael, but you two will decline because you two erroneously think that a quiet mind cant debate issues. Did you read the latest scientific report in the N.Y. Times that stated that our bodies are only 8 to 10 years old because of the renewal processes.? Love, Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Dear Rob: I wanted to do some sitting before resting for the night, but naturally this is too thought provoking. Dear Alton, > but you two will decline because you two erroneously > think that a quiet mind cant debate issues. That's not what I think. What I think is that losing yourself in pleasant fantasies about things that you do not have is day dreaming. Those are not fantasies. A biotech is near FDA approval for a physically challenged person to direct not only a computer by thought but prosthesis body parts. I can find it if you are interested. The next step it thought reading and then uploading one's whole mind. Ok, so you have your views from your own private mind and I cant do anything to convince you otherwise. Hey I change each moment. Some men daydream about having sex with beautiful women; other men daydream that they have a billion dollars. And some men daydream that they have a computer that does their meditation for them. The computer would not do it for Alton. The computer would then be Alton. You are a programmed computer right now but you dont know it or do you? It's all the same. Realization means you wake up. Daydreaming means you enjoy being asleep. Can you tell me what exactly Realization is and what are the benefits or burdens? > Did you read the latest scientific report in the N.Y. > Times that stated that our bodies are only 8 to 10 > years old because of the renewal processes.? Yes I read the article. What it said was that the average age of the cells in our body is 8 to 10 years. If you think that means your body is 8 to 10 years old, you need to take a good hard look in the mirror. If I look at my body it says 30 years old. The wrinlges can be fixed with money, so therefore I am only 30 not 68 and with science I will be 10 years old, but hopefully not mentally that. If you dont believe me I will photo my body and send you a picture. Postitively, Alton Realistically, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Dear Alton, > Those are not fantasies. You misunderstand what I mean by "fantasy." I mean that you do not have such a computer, but you are spending time imagining what it would be like if you did. This has nothing to do with whether or not such computers will get invented one day. > You are a programmed computer right now but you dont > know it or do you? If I'm a computer then how is it possible for me to feel pain? There is no way to program a computer so it feels pain. > Can you tell me what exactly Realization is and > what are the benefits or burdens? Nope. > I am only 30... If you dont believe me I will photo my > body and send you a picture. I've seen your photo. You're an old geezer just like me. I'm starting to think you're really crazy and not just pretending. Anciently, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo KashaThursday, August 04, 2005 3:51 AMRealization Subject: Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dear Rob: I wanted to do some sitting before resting for the night, but naturally this is too thought provoking. Dear Alton, > but you two will decline because you two erroneously > think that a quiet mind cant debate issues. That's not what I think. What I think is that losing yourself in pleasant fantasies about things that you do not have is day dreaming. Those are not fantasies. A biotech is near FDA approval for a physically challenged person to direct not only a computer by thought but prosthesis body parts. I can find it if you are interested. The next step it thought reading and then uploading one's whole mind. Ok, so you have your views from your own private mind and I cant do anything to convince you otherwise. Hey I change each moment. Some men daydream about having sex with beautiful women; other men daydream that they have a billion dollars. And some men daydream that they have a computer that does their meditation for them. The computer would not do it for Alton. The computer would then be Alton. You are a programmed computer right now but you dont know it or do you? It's all the same. Realization means you wake up. Daydreaming means you enjoy being asleep. Can you tell me what exactly Realization is and what are the benefits or burdens? > Did you read the latest scientific report in the N.Y. > Times that stated that our bodies are only 8 to 10 > years old because of the renewal processes.? Yes I read the article. What it said was that the average age of the cells in our body is 8 to 10 years. If you think that means your body is 8 to 10 years old, you need to take a good hard look in the mirror. If I look at my body it says 30 years old. The wrinlges can be fixed with money, so therefore I am only 30 not 68 and with science I will be 10 years old, but hopefully not mentally that. If you dont believe me I will photo my body and send you a picture. Postitively, Alton Realistically, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Dear Rob: You make the rules so you can break them. No personal attacks huh? Are you going to put yourself on moderation? Of course you will say you were just kidding, but isn't everyone. Well please apologize of Alton says goodbye. But I still will love you unconditionally. Alton Dear Alton, > Those are not fantasies. You misunderstand what I mean by "fantasy." I mean that you do not have such a computer, but you are spending time imagining what it would be like if you did. This has nothing to do with whether or not such computers will get invented one day. > You are a programmed computer right now but you dont > know it or do you? If I'm a computer then how is it possible for me to feel pain? There is no way to program a computer so it feels pain. > Can you tell me what exactly Realization is and > what are the benefits or burdens? Nope. > I am only 30... If you dont believe me I will photo my > body and send you a picture. I've seen your photo. You're an old geezer just like me. I'm starting to think you're really crazy and not just pretending. Anciently, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Hi Alton, > You make the rules so you can break them. I didn't break the rule because I made it. I broke the rule because it was 4 a.m. and I'm human. I will try to be more careful in the future. > Of course you will say you were just kidding, No, I'm not going to say that, because it would be a lie. When a 68 year old man claims that his photograph proves his body is 30 years old ... what reaction do you expect? How would *you* characterize that remark? Regards, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo KashaThursday, August 04, 2005 9:47 AMRealization Subject: Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dear Rob: You make the rules so you can break them. No personal attacks huh? Are you going to put yourself on moderation? Of course you will say you were just kidding, but isn't everyone. Well please apologize of Alton says goodbye. But I still will love you unconditionally. Alton Dear Alton, > Those are not fantasies. You misunderstand what I mean by "fantasy." I mean that you do not have such a computer, but you are spending time imagining what it would be like if you did. This has nothing to do with whether or not such computers will get invented one day. > You are a programmed computer right now but you dont > know it or do you? If I'm a computer then how is it possible for me to feel pain? There is no way to program a computer so it feels pain. > Can you tell me what exactly Realization is and > what are the benefits or burdens? Nope. > I am only 30... If you dont believe me I will photo my > body and send you a picture. I've seen your photo. You're an old geezer just like me. I'm starting to think you're really crazy and not just pretending. Anciently, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 As soon as my grandson returns our digital I will post a photo of my body and let those on emails see if I was truthful. My body looks like a young mans, my face and neck looks its age. Love, Alton - Rob Sacks Realization Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:04 AM RE: The Modern Buddha with addendum Hi Alton, > You make the rules so you can break them. I didn't break the rule because I made it. I broke the rule because it was 4 a.m. and I'm human. I will try to be more careful in the future. > Of course you will say you were just kidding, No, I'm not going to say that, because it would be a lie. When a 68 year old man claims that his photograph proves his body is 30 years old ... what reaction do you expect? How would *you* characterize that remark? Regards, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo KashaThursday, August 04, 2005 9:47 AMRealization Subject: Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dear Rob: You make the rules so you can break them. No personal attacks huh? Are you going to put yourself on moderation? Of course you will say you were just kidding, but isn't everyone. Well please apologize of Alton says goodbye. But I still will love you unconditionally. Alton Dear Alton, > Those are not fantasies. You misunderstand what I mean by "fantasy." I mean that you do not have such a computer, but you are spending time imagining what it would be like if you did. This has nothing to do with whether or not such computers will get invented one day. > You are a programmed computer right now but you dont > know it or do you? If I'm a computer then how is it possible for me to feel pain? There is no way to program a computer so it feels pain. > Can you tell me what exactly Realization is and > what are the benefits or burdens? Nope. > I am only 30... If you dont believe me I will photo my > body and send you a picture. I've seen your photo. You're an old geezer just like me. I'm starting to think you're really crazy and not just pretending. Anciently, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Hi Alton, I've seen your picture already. You look very youthful for your age. But that's not the same thing as "I am only 30." That's what you said: "I am only 30." Do you really think you are only 30? Regards, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo KashaThursday, August 04, 2005 2:29 PMRealization Subject: Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum As soon as my grandson returns our digital I will post a photo of my body and let those on emails see if I was truthful. My body looks like a young mans, my face and neck looks its age. Love, Alton - Rob Sacks Realization Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:04 AM RE: The Modern Buddha with addendum Hi Alton, > You make the rules so you can break them. I didn't break the rule because I made it. I broke the rule because it was 4 a.m. and I'm human. I will try to be more careful in the future. > Of course you will say you were just kidding, No, I'm not going to say that, because it would be a lie. When a 68 year old man claims that his photograph proves his body is 30 years old ... what reaction do you expect? How would *you* characterize that remark? Regards, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo KashaThursday, August 04, 2005 9:47 AMRealization Subject: Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dear Rob: You make the rules so you can break them. No personal attacks huh? Are you going to put yourself on moderation? Of course you will say you were just kidding, but isn't everyone. Well please apologize of Alton says goodbye. But I still will love you unconditionally. Alton Dear Alton, > Those are not fantasies. You misunderstand what I mean by "fantasy." I mean that you do not have such a computer, but you are spending time imagining what it would be like if you did. This has nothing to do with whether or not such computers will get invented one day. > You are a programmed computer right now but you dont > know it or do you? If I'm a computer then how is it possible for me to feel pain? There is no way to program a computer so it feels pain. > Can you tell me what exactly Realization is and > what are the benefits or burdens? Nope. > I am only 30... If you dont believe me I will photo my > body and send you a picture. I've seen your photo. You're an old geezer just like me. I'm starting to think you're really crazy and not just pretending. Anciently, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 My body looks 30 years old. You be the judge hopefully soon. Love, Alton - Rob Sacks Realization Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:40 AM RE: The Modern Buddha with addendum Hi Alton, I've seen your picture already. You look very youthful for your age. But that's not the same thing as "I am only 30." That's what you said: "I am only 30." Do you really think you are only 30? Regards, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Hi Alton, Like I said in my last message, I've already seen your picture. I don't need to see it again. I'd like to get back to the question of daydreaming. Daydreaming means that you lose self-awareness by entertaining yourself with thoughts. It makes no difference whether the thoughts are about real things or fake things. It's a daydream either way. People daydream about real things all the time. I think daydreaming is the opposite of sadhana. Sadhana works because it makes you self-aware. Daydreaming is a way of abandoning self-awareness. Regards, Rob _____ Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo Kasha Thursday, August 04, 2005 3:52 PM Realization Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum My body looks 30 years old. You be the judge hopefully soon. Love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Dear Rob: Let those who are emails see if I was deluded into thinking this body does not look many decades younger. You don't allow uploading into the photo section so I cant post them there. Hi Alton, Like I said in my last message, I've already seen your picture. I don't need to see it again. I'd like to get back to the question of daydreaming. Daydreaming means that you lose self-awareness by entertaining yourself with thoughts. And if one is mindful of what one is invesigating or planning then it is not daydreaming. What I am investigating is technology that will get meditators out of the stone age and neurological breakthroughs that are happening right now will surely cut the time it takes for one to blow away the unsanctioned discursive mind. You wont have to kiss the butts of Gurus anymore or come back for another 100 lifetimes to have a loving aware present time mind. It makes no difference whether the thoughts are about real things or fake things. It's a daydream either way. Not if one is mindful and is sanctioning thoughts. If you are saying any kind of thoughts are daydreaming then I will agree. Ramana was daydreaming when he planned stuff at the ashrama, right? Me thinks Rob has lost it when his Guru hit wore off. I have not seen you do a personal attack in all the years I have read you on the boards. That is what happens when you depend on an outer Guru. Remember Nisargadatta saying in 'I Am That'. It is not the gurus it is the gurus words. I worship Ramana and Nisargadatta's words. Love to Rob who is suffering now? Alton People daydream about real things all the time. I think daydreaming is the opposite of sadhana. Sadhana works because it makes you self-aware. Daydreaming is a way of abandoning self-awareness. Regards, Rob Hi Alton, I've seen your picture already. You look very youthful for your age. But that's not the same thing as " I am only 30. " That's what you said: " I am only 30. " Do you really think you are only 30? Regards, Rob _____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Hi Alton, > Let those who are emails see if I was deluded > into thinking this body does not look many > decades younger. You're changing the topic to avoid what you actually said. You said " I am only 30. " Now you're changing the topic to whether you LOOK young. Am and look are different things. But okay, let's change the topic. Let's talk about whether you look 30. Do you really imagine that people who see you close up in real life believe that you're 30? > What I am investigating is technology that will > get meditators out of the stone age and > neurological breakthroughs that are happening > right now will surely cut the time it takes for > one to blow away the unsanctioned discursive mind. The technology you are imagining doesn't exist now. Maybe it will exist in the future, but it doesn't exist now. So what good does it do to spend time " investigating " it? How come you're not interested in the technology that does exist now? Things like neurofeedback and entrainment technology? It seems to me that if you were serious, you would try the technology that actually exists instead of thinking and writing about technology that doesn't exist. > Not if one is mindful and is sanctioning thoughts. I agree with you that if a person retains self- awareness while thinking, then we shouldn't call that activity a daydream. However this is very hard to do for most people. Almost always when people think about things, they lose themselves. > Ramana was daydreaming when he planned stuff at > the ashrama, right? I wouldn't say so. I only call thinking a daydream if the person loses self-awareness. To me that's the essential feature of daydreaming. Of course everybody is free to define words however they like. I've been choosing to define " daydream " as necessarily involving a loss of self-awareness. > You wont have to kiss the butts of Gurus anymore... Nobody has to kiss anybody's butt to make an effort to remain self-aware. Kissing butts is just a way of avoiding facing reality. Just like daydreaming about computers that don't exist is a way of avoiding facing reality. > Me thinks Rob has lost it when his Guru hit wore off. > I have not seen you do a personal attack in all the > years I have read you on the boards. My tolerance for bullshit is less lately. I don't know if that has anything to do with my guru, but if it does, I wouldn't take it as a negative advertisement for gurus. Regards, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo Kasha Thursday, August 04, 2005 6:09 PM Realization Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dear Rob: Let those who are emails see if I was deluded into thinking this body does not look many decades younger. You don't allow uploading into the photo section so I cant post them there. Hi Alton, Like I said in my last message, I've already seen your picture. I don't need to see it again. I'd like to get back to the question of daydreaming. Daydreaming means that you lose self-awareness by entertaining yourself with thoughts. And if one is mindful of what one is invesigating or planning then it is not daydreaming. What I am investigating is technology that will get meditators out of the stone age and neurological breakthroughs that are happening right now will surely cut the time it takes for one to blow away the unsanctioned discursive mind. You wont have to kiss the butts of Gurus anymore or come back for another 100 lifetimes to have a loving aware present time mind. It makes no difference whether the thoughts are about real things or fake things. It's a daydream either way. Not if one is mindful and is sanctioning thoughts. If you are saying any kind of thoughts are daydreaming then I will agree. Ramana was daydreaming when he planned stuff at the ashrama, right? Me thinks Rob has lost it when his Guru hit wore off. I have not seen you do a personal attack in all the years I have read you on the boards. That is what happens when you depend on an outer Guru. Remember Nisargadatta saying in 'I Am That'. It is not the gurus it is the gurus words. I worship Ramana and Nisargadatta's words. Love to Rob who is suffering now? Alton People daydream about real things all the time. I think daydreaming is the opposite of sadhana. Sadhana works because it makes you self-aware. Daydreaming is a way of abandoning self-awareness. Regards, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Dear Rob: This issue is getting silly and you many lose members and blame me again. Last time for this part. My body looks 30. I sent you two shots taken today. If I posted them with 100 other 30 year olds and asked to identify the ages I say I would come out at least equal to the other 30 year olds. My face looks it's age because I went into the sun and that causes facial aging. It still would look old because faces age. - Rob Sacks Realization Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:09 PM RE: The Modern Buddha with addendum Hi Alton, > Let those who are emails see if I was deluded > into thinking this body does not look many > decades younger. You're changing the topic to avoid what you actually said. You said " I am only 30. " Now you're changing the topic to whether you LOOK young. Am and look are different things. But okay, let's change the topic. Let's talk about whether you look 30. Do you really imagine that people who see you close up in real life believe that you're 30?<<< I addressed these issues above. > What I am investigating is technology that will > get meditators out of the stone age and > neurological breakthroughs that are happening > right now will surely cut the time it takes for > one to blow away the unsanctioned discursive mind. The technology you are imagining doesn't exist now. Maybe it will exist in the future, but it doesn't exist now.<<<<< It exits in the mind of Kurtzweil and who has a great track record of inventing technology that others could not, like the digital piano that produces piano sound equal to a Steinway grand. And the reader for the blind that no-one else could invent. Therefore a reverse engineered brain is not something that is Science fiction, but something that will definitely happen as soon as computing power increases to that level that makes it possible. With nanotech it definitely is going to happen and hopefully in Alton's lifetime. So what good does it do to spend time " investigating " it? It appeared in this book and since I am interested in technology that will assist me in my quest for a present time mind, this fits that parameter. How come you're not interested in the technology that does exist now? Things like neurofeedback and entrainment technology?<<<<< Who says I am not. Just as soon as some company comes out with a module that informs me immeditatly when I have an unsanctioned though I will be interested, but so far nothing I have come across does that. If you can refer me to that tech, please do. I am not interested in the tech that does alpha, delta waves only. It seems to me that if you were serious, you would try the technology that actually exists instead of thinking and writing about technology that doesn't exist.<<<<< > Not if one is mindful and is sanctioning thoughts. I agree with you that if a person retains self- awareness while thinking, then we shouldn't call that activity a daydream. However this is very hard to do for most people. Almost always when people think about things, they lose themselves.<<< That is why mindfulness training is so important. That is what advaita lacks. i.s Mindfulness of the body, feelings, mental states. Correct me if I am wrong, but Advaita concentrates of consciousness and not on the body etc.. Instead of being bummed out about the hit from your guru not lasting, please focus on the mental state that it produces until it dissolves in the power of Attention. > Ramana was daydreaming when he planned stuff at > the ashrama, right? I wouldn't say so. I only call thinking a daydream if the person loses self-awareness. To me that's the essential feature of daydreaming. Of course everybody is free to define words however they like. I've been choosing to define " daydream " as necessarily involving a loss of self-awareness. > You wont have to kiss the butts of Gurus anymore... Nobody has to kiss anybody's butt to make an effort to remain self-aware.<<<<<<< True, but so many of the bhaktas do. Kissing butts is just a way of avoiding facing reality. Just like daydreaming about computers that don't exist is a way of avoiding facing reality.<<<<< > Me thinks Rob has lost it when his Guru hit wore off. > I have not seen you do a personal attack in all the > years I have read you on the boards. My tolerance for bullshit is less lately. I don't know if that has anything to do with my guru, but if it does, I wouldn't take it as a negative advertisement for gurus.<<<<<<<< I do. You have to be an example because you worship the guru an have been into this so long. And as you said, not Realized. Love, Alton P.S I offer unconditional love to all my friends, no matter if they do personal attacks or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Hi Alton, > This issue is getting silly... No, Alton, it was silly from the beginning. > ...and you many lose members and blame me > again. What members? You're the only person who posts here. All we've been doing is looking seriously at what you wrote. If the result is silly, maybe that should tell you something. Regards, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo Kasha Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:19 PM Realization Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Dear Rob: This issue is getting silly and you many lose members and blame me again. Last time for this part. My body looks 30. I sent you two shots taken today. If I posted them with 100 other 30 year olds and asked to identify the ages I say I would come out at least equal to the other 30 year olds. My face looks it's age because I went into the sun and that causes facial aging. It still would look old because faces age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Actually Rob dear, this is the work that the Universe is having me do now. Yes, there is some aversion but I cognited that you are similar to my parents who like to invalidate and use personal attacks. So I thank you for this dialogue as it prodded me to look at some conditioning. With metta love, Alton Hi Alton, > This issue is getting silly... No, Alton, it was silly from the beginning. > ...and you many lose members and blame me > again. What members? You're the only person who posts here. All we've been doing is looking seriously at what you wrote. If the result is silly, maybe that should tell you something. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 Hi Alton, > Actually Rob dear, this is the work > that the Universe is having me do now. Call me a skeptic but I kinda doubt that the Andromeda galaxy pays a whole lot of attention to Alton's adventures. Or Rob's adventures ... I don't mean anything personal by this. > but I cognited that you are similar to > my parents who like to invalidate and > use personal attacks. I'm sorry I attacked you. Here's a thought. Can a false idea be invalidated? If so, is realization a kind of invalidation? > So I thank you for this dialogue as it > prodded me to look at some conditioning. And I thank you. Regards, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo Kasha Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:38 PM Realization Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Actually Rob dear, this is the work that the Universe is having me do now. Yes, there is some aversion but I cognited that you are similar to my parents who like to invalidate and use personal attacks. So I thank you for this dialogue as it prodded me to look at some conditioning. With metta love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 Dear Rob: All is well with us. Even the highest of the high on rare occasions lose it. Ramana was said get angry too, but not often. I happened to react badly about 6 months ago and I vowed never to let it happen again. My view is that we are only playing roles from the Universal script and the director is God or the mysterious power, as one nun characterized God. False ideas may or may not be invalidated, but the one who offers it surely can be invalidated if that person goes into agreement with the attack.. I still don't know what Realization is after all these years, but maybe I never will or maybe I have another idea about the assassination of the personal.?????? What do you do on the weekends? Self inquiry, TV or??? Love, Alton Hi Alton, > Actually Rob dear, this is the work > that the Universe is having me do now. Call me a skeptic but I kinda doubt that the Andromeda galaxy pays a whole lot of attention to Alton's adventures. Or Rob's adventures ... I don't mean anything personal by this. > but I cognited that you are similar to > my parents who like to invalidate and > use personal attacks. I'm sorry I attacked you. Here's a thought. Can a false idea be invalidated? If so, is realization a kind of invalidation? > So I thank you for this dialogue as it > prodded me to look at some conditioning. And I thank you. Regards, Rob Realization [Realization ] On Behalf Of Komo Kasha Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:38 PM Realization Re: The Modern Buddha with addendum Actually Rob dear, this is the work that the Universe is having me do now. Yes, there is some aversion but I cognited that you are similar to my parents who like to invalidate and use personal attacks. So I thank you for this dialogue as it prodded me to look at some conditioning. With metta love, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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