Guest guest Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Dear Alton, I hope you're feeling better. > This is interesting. I think so too. It's the main thing that I've learned from meditating that seems worthwhile passing on to other people. > How many different states have you noticed? In ordinary waking life, including meditation, there are two states that matter. Either we're lost in thoughts or else we're aware. (We can be somewhere in between, too.) People think they are aware all the time but really they aren't. Nothing I say here will make sense until you notice this in yourself. The easiest way to notice it is during meditation. You're sitting there trying to be mindful or whatever you're trying to do. Suddenly you realize, " Shit, I've been daydreaming for the last ten minutes instead of meditating. " At that exact moment when you come back to your senses and remember what you should be doing, look back in your memory at what your mental state was during those ten minutes. You'll realize that you weren't really aware in the sense that you are aware at the present moment. You can remember what you were thinking during those ten minutes, but you'll have the sense that you are *realizing* what you were thinking only now, after you came back to your senses. You have to do this quickly because as soon as you come to your senses, you are already sliding back into the lost-in-thought state. Unless you train yourself, the aware state doesn't last long. During those ten minutes you were in a dreamlike " lost-in-thoughts " state. That's your normal state 99% of the time during the day, not just when you're meditating. Each time you suddenly come to your senses during meditation and realize that your mind was wandering for the previous several minutes, you are in a moment of the aware state. This is your chance to observe that state and see what it's like. You'll notice that if you *think* about the aware state, the state gets destroyed. When you try to pick out some detail in it that you can study with your mind, you drive yourself into the lost-in-thought state. You can only hold onto the aware state by recognizing that you simply *know* the state is there without thinking. Eventually you learn to get into the aware state voluntarily. One technique that seems to work pretty well is asking yourself, " Am I aware now? " But you have to be careful because it's *very* easy to imagine that you are aware when you aren't. It's easy to confuse the thought, " I am in the aware state " with really being in the aware state. After a while you start observing the process by which the aware state slips away from you. Instead of getting blindsided by the mind wandering (in other words, instead of noticing the wandering only after it's been underway for several minutes), you develop the ability to see the wandering start. Then the wandering doesn't happen. Most important of all, you realize that you can be aware of awareness. Holding the aware state *is* being aware of awareness. After a while you start voluntarily going into the aware state as much as possible. That becomes your sadhana. You can do it anywhere and any time. You don't have to sit and do it for hours at a stretch. You can do it for a second here and a minute there, as many times during the day as it occurs to you. It becomes self-evident why you want to make this effort. Because otherwise you're sleep walking through the day. You start getting yourself into the aware state for the same reason you open your eyes when you walk down the street. Because you want to see what's happening. I think this aware state is the goal of most systems of sadhana. At least, the effective systems. But traditional instructions rarely say, " Get into the aware state. " The only system that I know of that says this directly is the Gurdjieff-Ouspensky method. When they say " self-remember, " it's the same thing as, " Be in the aware state. " I think Gurdjieff's " man 4 " corresponds to someone who has learned to be in the aware state a lot of the time. Self-remembering is the same thing as Nisargadatta's holding the " I AM " or Ramana's " hold the I-thought. " And of course what I'm recommending is a way of being mindful. Regards, Rob > > Realization > [Realization ] On Behalf Of Alton Slater > Wednesday, August 10, 2005 3:48 AM > Realization > Re: Following the rules I hope.. corrected > > Dear Rob: > > > > > > one must develop mindfulness so that one can be > > aware of when the minds wanders. > > Yes I understand. I spent several years dealing with this. > I discovered two ways to prevent the mind from wandering. > But then I realized that there was a better way to approach > the whole thing. Instead of worrying about the mind > wandering, it was more useful to notice the state of mind at > the moment when the wandering is noticed. The effortless > state of knowing which happens naturally at that moment is > the desired state for sadhana. I began looking forward to > wandering so there would be another opportunity to observe > that state so I could notice what it was like and try to > recreate it voluntarily.<<<<< > > This is interesting. > > " Instead of worrying about the mind > wandering, it was more useful to notice the state of mind at > the moment when the wandering is noticed. " > > Can you provide more details about the above statement. How > many different states have you noticed? What are they? What > exactly happens when you notice those states of mind? > > We watched Joseph Campbell on PBS tonight so most of my > computer time is gone. > > Metta, > Alton I think that moment of returning to your senses is what the > old books mean when they say " notice the moment between two > thoughts. " > > Regards, > > Rob > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Dear Alton, I hope you're feeling better.<<< Thanks Rob: When ever something goes awry in my body I make changes in diet and exercise. I gave up the eggs and I am hoping that tofu will do it. Master Ching Hai says that if you are a vegetarian you have to eat more often. So I will give it another go. > This is interesting. I think so too. It's the main thing that I've learned from meditating that seems worthwhile passing on to other people. > How many different states have you noticed? In ordinary waking life, including meditation, there are two states that matter. Either we're lost in thoughts or else we're aware. (We can be somewhere in between, too.) People think they are aware all the time but really they aren't. Nothing I say here will make sense until you notice this in yourself. The easiest way to notice it is during meditation. You're sitting there trying to be mindful or whatever you're trying to do. Suddenly you realize, " Shit, I've been daydreaming for the last ten minutes instead of meditating. " At that exact moment when you come back to your senses and remember what you should be doing, look back in your memory at what your mental state was during those ten minutes. You'll realize that you weren't really aware in the sense that you are aware at the present moment. You can remember what you were thinking during those ten minutes, but you'll have the sense that you are *realizing* what you were thinking only now, after you came back to your senses. You have to do this quickly because as soon as you come to your senses, you are already sliding back into the lost-in-thought state. Unless you train yourself, the aware state doesn't last long. During those ten minutes you were in a dreamlike " lost-in-thoughts " state. That's your normal state 99% of the time during the day, not just when you're meditating. Each time you suddenly come to your senses during meditation and realize that your mind was wandering for the previous several minutes, you are in a moment of the aware state. This is your chance to observe that state and see what it's like. You'll notice that if you *think* about the aware state, the state gets destroyed. When you try to pick out some detail in it that you can study with your mind, you drive yourself into the lost-in-thought state. You can only hold onto the aware state by recognizing that you simply *know* the state is there without thinking. Eventually you learn to get into the aware state voluntarily. One technique that seems to work pretty well is asking yourself, " Am I aware now? " But you have to be careful because it's *very* easy to imagine that you are aware when you aren't. It's easy to confuse the thought, " I am in the aware state " with really being in the aware state. After a while you start observing the process by which the aware state slips away from you. Instead of getting blindsided by the mind wandering (in other words, instead of noticing the wandering only after it's been underway for several minutes), you develop the ability to see the wandering start. Then the wandering doesn't happen. Most important of all, you realize that you can be aware of awareness. Holding the aware state *is* being aware of awareness. After a while you start voluntarily going into the aware state as much as possible. That becomes your sadhana. You can do it anywhere and any time. You don't have to sit and do it for hours at a stretch. You can do it for a second here and a minute there, as many times during the day as it occurs to you. It becomes self-evident why you want to make this effort. Because otherwise you're sleep walking through the day. You start getting yourself into the aware state for the same reason you open your eyes when you walk down the street. Because you want to see what's happening. I think this aware state is the goal of most systems of sadhana. At least, the effective systems. But traditional instructions rarely say, " Get into the aware state. " The only system that I know of that says this directly is the Gurdjieff-Ouspensky method. When they say " self-remember, " it's the same thing as, " Be in the aware state. " I think Gurdjieff's " man 4 " corresponds to someone who has learned to be in the aware state a lot of the time. Self-remembering is the same thing as Nisargadatta's holding the " I AM " or Ramana's " hold the I-thought. " And of course what I'm recommending is a way of being mindful. Regards, Rob <<<<<<< That is exactly what I do in my practice. Hopefully I will never space out for more than a few moments. My use of noticing helps too. When we are in the process of exiting our bodies this is of the upmost importance as we may have a choice of what parents to have that will help us in our sadhana. Aloha, Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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