Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 " When the rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " — Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 This sounds like a bad translation. Rob Sacks <editor wrote: " When the rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " — Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization > [Realization ] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > Realization > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks <editor wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > — Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization > [Realization ] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > Realization > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > — Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM .................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization > > [Realization <Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > Realization <Realization%40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM ................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization > > [Realization <Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > Realization <Realization%40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM .................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor@realizati\ on.org<editor%40realization.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> > [Realization <Realization%40><mailto\ :Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM ................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Who is a " poor pilgrim " ? orva schrock <otsclu wrote: Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor@realizati\ on.org<editor%40realization.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> > [Realization <Realization%40><mailto\ :Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM .................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 this psycho/physical blob here, this vortex of mysterious energies which " others " look at and yell, " hey, you! " Ramana says if I get to know Who I really am, my problems will all be over...and all questions will be answered. hmmm...could it be??? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Monday, December 31, 2007 1:47 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Who is a " poor pilgrim " ? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu> wrote: Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40realiza\ tion.org><editor<editor%40realization.org><\ editor%40realization.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> > [Realization@com<Realization%40><\ Realization%40><Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM ................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realiza\ tion.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 You already do know who you are. There is no such thing as realization. Don't try to be realized. Your duty is to be and not try to be this or that. You are already liberated. Stop and be still. There's nothing more. orva schrock <otsclu wrote: this psycho/physical blob here, this vortex of mysterious energies which " others " look at and yell, " hey, you! " Ramana says if I get to know Who I really am, my problems will all be over...and all questions will be answered. hmmm...could it be??? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Monday, December 31, 2007 1:47 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Who is a " poor pilgrim " ? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu> wrote: Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40realiza\ tion.org><editor<editor%40realization.org><\ editor%40realization.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> > [Realization@com<Realization%40><\ Realization%40><Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM .................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realiza\ tion.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 well, to stop seeking would be more. I'm not there yet...still asking, who am I? the body is not I, etc.. P.S. What kinda crazy s**t would we have to put up here to entice somebody else to jump on? Apparently we're not there yet... how low can we go, bro? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Monday, December 31, 2007 3:37 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? You already do know who you are. There is no such thing as realization. Don't try to be realized. Your duty is to be and not try to be this or that. You are already liberated. Stop and be still. There's nothing more. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu> wrote: this psycho/physical blob here, this vortex of mysterious energies which " others " look at and yell, " hey, you! " Ramana says if I get to know Who I really am, my problems will all be over...and all questions will be answered. hmmm...could it be??? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:47 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Who is a " poor pilgrim " ? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu<otsclu%40m\ sn.com>>> wrote: Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ @<Realization%40><Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40realiza\ tion.org><editor%40realization.org><editor<\ editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40reali\ zation.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ @<Realization%40><Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40>> > [Realization@com<Realization%40><\ Realization%40><Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM ................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realiza\ tion.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www\ ..realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http:\ //www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/\ ><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 what happens if for one moment, one instant, you stop seeking? stop asking? what s left? and ask yourself....what is wrong with that? Then realize That what you call " Orva " is what I call " Cliff " . It's what Rob calls " Rob " . Orva is It. The being you refer to as " Orva " is not personal. It is all-pervading consciousness that Is, Was and will always Be. That is where you are headed my dear friend. orva schrock <otsclu wrote: well, to stop seeking would be more. I'm not there yet...still asking, who am I? the body is not I, etc.. P.S. What kinda crazy s**t would we have to put up here to entice somebody else to jump on? Apparently we're not there yet... how low can we go, bro? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Monday, December 31, 2007 3:37 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? You already do know who you are. There is no such thing as realization. Don't try to be realized. Your duty is to be and not try to be this or that. You are already liberated. Stop and be still. There's nothing more. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu> wrote: this psycho/physical blob here, this vortex of mysterious energies which " others " look at and yell, " hey, you! " Ramana says if I get to know Who I really am, my problems will all be over..and all questions will be answered. hmmm...could it be??? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:47 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Who is a " poor pilgrim " ? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu<otsclu%40m\ sn.com>>> wrote: Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ @<Realization%40><Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40realiza\ tion.org><editor%40realization.org><editor<\ editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40reali\ zation.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40com><Realizat\ ion%40><Realization%40><Realization@\ <Realization%40><Realization%40\ groups.com><Realization%40>> > [Realization@com<Realization%40><\ Realization%40><Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM ................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realiza\ tion.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www\ ..realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http:\ //www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/\ ><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Thanks, Cliff, for just a split-second there I saw the truth...I'll read it again a few times tomorrow. Holy crap, non-duality rocks!!!! - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Monday, December 31, 2007 7:50 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? what happens if for one moment, one instant, you stop seeking? stop asking? what s left? and ask yourself....what is wrong with that? Then realize That what you call " Orva " is what I call " Cliff " . It's what Rob calls " Rob " . Orva is It. The being you refer to as " Orva " is not personal. It is all-pervading consciousness that Is, Was and will always Be. That is where you are headed my dear friend. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, to stop seeking would be more. I'm not there yet...still asking, who am I? the body is not I, etc.. P.S. What kinda crazy s**t would we have to put up here to entice somebody else to jump on? Apparently we're not there yet... how low can we go, bro? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 3:37 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? You already do know who you are. There is no such thing as realization. Don't try to be realized. Your duty is to be and not try to be this or that. You are already liberated. Stop and be still. There's nothing more. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu<otsclu%40m\ sn.com>>> wrote: this psycho/physical blob here, this vortex of mysterious energies which " others " look at and yell, " hey, you! " Ramana says if I get to know Who I really am, my problems will all be over..and all questions will be answered. hmmm...could it be??? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:47 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Who is a " poor pilgrim " ? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu@\ msn.com<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>>> wrote: Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ @<Realization%40><Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40.co\ m>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization <Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40gro\ ups.com><Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40realiza\ tion.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><mail\ to:editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40reali\ zation.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40com><Realization%40><Realization%\ 40><Realization <Realization%40\ groups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40grou\ ps.com><Realization%40>> > [Realization@com<Realization%40><\ Realization%40><Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization%40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM .................................................. By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realiza\ tion.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www\ ..realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http:\ //www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/\ ><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>><http://www.realiza\ tion.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.re\ alization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http:/\ /www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/\ <http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization\ ..org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.real\ ization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Orva, Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what do you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what is the word? What remains? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu wrote: Thanks, Cliff, for just a split-second there I saw the truth...I'll read it again a few times tomorrow. Holy crap, non-duality rocks!!!! - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Monday, December 31, 2007 7:50 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? what happens if for one moment, one instant, you stop seeking? stop asking? what s left? and ask yourself....what is wrong with that? Then realize That what you call " Orva " is what I call " Cliff " . It's what Rob calls " Rob " . Orva is It. The being you refer to as " Orva " is not personal. It is all-pervading consciousness that Is, Was and will always Be. That is where you are headed my dear friend. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, to stop seeking would be more. I'm not there yet...still asking, who am I? the body is not I, etc.. P.S. What kinda crazy s**t would we have to put up here to entice somebody else to jump on? Apparently we're not there yet... how low can we go, bro? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 3:37 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? You already do know who you are. There is no such thing as realization. Don't try to be realized. Your duty is to be and not try to be this or that. You are already liberated. Stop and be still. There's nothing more. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu<otsclu%40m\ sn.com>>> wrote: this psycho/physical blob here, this vortex of mysterious energies which " others " look at and yell, " hey, you! " Ramana says if I get to know Who I really am, my problems will all be over..and all questions will be answered. hmmm...could it be??? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:47 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Who is a " poor pilgrim " ? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu@\ msn.com<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>>> wrote: Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ @<Realization%40><Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40.co\ m>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization <Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40gro\ ups.com><Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40realiza\ tion.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><mail\ to:editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40reali\ zation.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40com><Realization%40><Realization%\ 40><Realization <Realization%40\ groups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40grou\ ps.com><Realization%40>> > [Realization@com<Realization%40><\ Realization%40><Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization%40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM ................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realiza\ tion.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www\ ..realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http:\ //www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/\ ><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>><http://www.realiza\ tion.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.re\ alization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http:/\ /www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/\ <http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization\ ..org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.real\ ization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Cliff, I would like to give the incorrect answer but is the only answer I have to that question of who am I. I would say that I am my thoughts and as long as I have a mind to think with then I exist. When that mind is gone or impaired, I no longer exist. Judy --------- Orva, Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what do you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what is the word? What remains? Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 consciousness - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:25 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Orva, Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what do you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what is the word? What remains? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu> wrote: Thanks, Cliff, for just a split-second there I saw the truth...I'll read it again a few times tomorrow. Holy crap, non-duality rocks!!!! - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 7:50 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? what happens if for one moment, one instant, you stop seeking? stop asking? what s left? and ask yourself....what is wrong with that? Then realize That what you call " Orva " is what I call " Cliff " . It's what Rob calls " Rob " . Orva is It. The being you refer to as " Orva " is not personal. It is all-pervading consciousness that Is, Was and will always Be. That is where you are headed my dear friend. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, to stop seeking would be more. I'm not there yet...still asking, who am I? the body is not I, etc.. P.S. What kinda crazy s**t would we have to put up here to entice somebody else to jump on? Apparently we're not there yet... how low can we go, bro? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 3:37 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? You already do know who you are. There is no such thing as realization. Don't try to be realized. Your duty is to be and not try to be this or that. You are already liberated. Stop and be still. There's nothing more. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu@\ msn.com<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>>> wrote: this psycho/physical blob here, this vortex of mysterious energies which " others " look at and yell, " hey, you! " Ramana says if I get to know Who I really am, my problems will all be over..and all questions will be answered. hmmm...could it be??? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ @<Realization%40><Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:47 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Who is a " poor pilgrim " ? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com><otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.co\ m><otsclu%40msn.com>>> wrote: Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40.co\ m>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization <Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40gro\ ups.com><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40.co\ m><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization%40><Realization@yah\ oogroups.com<Realization%40><Realization%40gro\ ups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40.\ com><Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40realiza\ tion.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><mail\ to:editor%40realization.org><editor<editor%40reali\ zation.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><ma\ ilto:editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40com><Realization%\ 40><Realization%40><Realization@yaho\ ogroups.com<Realization%40><Realization%40grou\ ps.com><Realization%40><Realization%40.c\ om><Realization%40>> > [Realization@com<Realization%40><\ Realization%40><Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization%40><Realization%40y\ ahoogroups.com> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM .................................................. By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realiza\ tion.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www\ ..realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http:\ //www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/\ ><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>><http://www.realiza\ tion.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.re\ alization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http:/\ /www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/\ <http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization\ ..org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.real\ ization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>>><http://www.realization.org/<http:/\ /www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>\ <http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization\ ..org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.real\ ization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://w\ ww.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<htt\ p://www.realization.org/>>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.\ org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.reali\ zation.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.\ realization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><htt\ p://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.or\ g/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realizati\ on.org/>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 congratulations. that's it.call off the search bud. were you expecting something more? Do you think that when I am aware of consciousness...I am experiencing something different than what you experience? Now ask yourself, " Who am I? " , but this time... have a picture of Ramana in front of you. Report back. orva schrock <otsclu wrote: consciousness - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:25 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Orva, Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what do you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what is the word? What remains? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu> wrote: Thanks, Cliff, for just a split-second there I saw the truth...I'll read it again a few times tomorrow. Holy crap, non-duality rocks!!!! - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 7:50 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? what happens if for one moment, one instant, you stop seeking? stop asking? what s left? and ask yourself....what is wrong with that? Then realize That what you call " Orva " is what I call " Cliff " . It's what Rob calls " Rob " . Orva is It. The being you refer to as " Orva " is not personal. It is all-pervading consciousness that Is, Was and will always Be. That is where you are headed my dear friend. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, to stop seeking would be more. I'm not there yet...still asking, who am I? the body is not I, etc.. P.S. What kinda crazy s**t would we have to put up here to entice somebody else to jump on? Apparently we're not there yet... how low can we go, bro? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 3:37 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? You already do know who you are. There is no such thing as realization. Don't try to be realized. Your duty is to be and not try to be this or that. You are already liberated. Stop and be still. There's nothing more. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu@\ msn.com<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>>> wrote: this psycho/physical blob here, this vortex of mysterious energies which " others " look at and yell, " hey, you! " Ramana says if I get to know Who I really am, my problems will all be over..and all questions will be answered. hmmm...could it be??? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ @<Realization%40><Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:47 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Who is a " poor pilgrim " ? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com><otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.co\ m><otsclu%40msn.com>>> wrote: Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40.co\ m>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization <Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40gro\ ups.com><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self. In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40.co\ m><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization%40><Realization@yah\ oogroups.com<Realization%40><Realization%40gro\ ups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40.\ com><Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40realiza\ tion.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><mail\ to:editor%40realization.org><editor<editor%40reali\ zation.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><ma\ ilto:editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40com><Realization%\ 40><Realization%40><Realization@yaho\ ogroups.com<Realization%40><Realization%40grou\ ps.com><Realization%40><Realization%40.c\ om><Realization%40>> > [Realization@com<Realization%40><\ Realization%40><Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization%40><Realization%40y\ ahoogroups.com> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM ................................................... By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realiza\ tion.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www\ ..realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http:\ //www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/\ ><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>><http://www.realiza\ tion.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.re\ alization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http:/\ /www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/\ <http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization\ ..org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.real\ ization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>>><http://www.realization.org/<http:/\ /www.realization.org/><http ://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org\ /<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realizatio\ n.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.re\ alization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://\ www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>\ ><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realizatio\ n.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.real\ ization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://\ www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<ht\ tp://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.o\ rg/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 getting in touch with my inner Ramana....... - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:59 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? congratulations. that's it.call off the search bud. were you expecting something more? Do you think that when I am aware of consciousness..I am experiencing something different than what you experience? Now ask yourself, " Who am I? " , but this time... have a picture of Ramana in front of you. Report back. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: consciousness - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:25 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Orva, Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what do you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what is the word? What remains? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu<otsclu%40m\ sn.com>>> wrote: Thanks, Cliff, for just a split-second there I saw the truth...I'll read it again a few times tomorrow. Holy crap, non-duality rocks!!!! - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 7:50 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? what happens if for one moment, one instant, you stop seeking? stop asking? what s left? and ask yourself....what is wrong with that? Then realize That what you call " Orva " is what I call " Cliff " . It's what Rob calls " Rob " . Orva is It. The being you refer to as " Orva " is not personal. It is all-pervading consciousness that Is, Was and will always Be. That is where you are headed my dear friend. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msncom><otsclu%4\ 0msn.com>> wrote: well, to stop seeking would be more. I'm not there yet...still asking, who am I? the body is not I, etc.. P.S. What kinda crazy s**t would we have to put up here to entice somebody else to jump on? Apparently we're not there yet... how low can we go, bro? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ @<Realization%40><Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 3:37 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? You already do know who you are. There is no such thing as realization. Don't try to be realized. Your duty is to be and not try to be this or that. You are already liberated. Stop and be still. There's nothing more. orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com><otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.co\ m><otsclu%40msn.com>>> wrote: this psycho/physical blob here, this vortex of mysterious energies which " others " look at and yell, " hey, you! " Ramana says if I get to know Who I really am, my problems will all be over..and all questions will be answered. hmmm...could it be??? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40.co\ m>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization <Realization%40yaho\ ogroups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40gro\ ups.com><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:47 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Who is a " poor pilgrim " ? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu<otsclu%40msn.co\ m><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>>> wrote: Brother Cliffji, Sounds right to me. But I am just a poor pilgrim on the path, trying to understand the teachings of my guru Ramana...we are getting into very subtle areas of existence and consciousness here. They say there is a horizon beyond which words cannot go and yet truth can be known by direct perception beyond the senses.....and THAT would be true realization of the Self. What say ye all? What do you lurkers out there say? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40.co\ m><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization%40><Realization@yah\ oogroups.com<Realization%40><Realization%40gro\ ups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40.\ com><Realization%40>> Monday, December 31, 2007 1:01 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? >rejection of mental activities I suppose that means that thoughts should be regarded as just happening. Not being conjured by the seer. By not claiming authorship to the thoughts as they arise...we maintain the apropriate detachment as in reality the seer is not the author but the witness. The more this mind-set can be maintained.... the more likely the false perception of authorship by the body-mind will be allowed to dissapate. Am I understanding this correctly fellow sadhus? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%\ 40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn\ ..com>> wrote: well, ever present it certainly is, as it is indeed WHAT IS. Ramana and others have spoken of this often and clearly. Yes, of course, the self is ever present as there IS nothing else, ultimately. But as Swami Vivekananda points out in his great book, Jnana Yoga, this physical world we perceive with the senses and dwell in day to day, this is the realm of maya, it is a mixture of real and unreal. As long as any of us [the Jivas] sees themselves as separate from the One and Only One, [more properly, " not two " ] then there are times we do not [consciously] experience the Self In other words, as long as we perceive ourselves as separate beings, just that long we will also spend most or our " time " enmeshed in and enthralled by our sense perceptions thereby forgetting " thou art that. " - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_\ shack%40><cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40.co\ m><cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization%40><Realization%40y\ ahoogroups.com><Realization <Realization%40gro\ ups.com><Realization%40><Realization%40.\ com><Realization%40><Realization%40>\ <Realization%40>> Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:45 PM RE: When Will You Experience the Self? when do we ever not experience the self? the self is ever present. it always is. the experience can't begin if it is ever-present. Rob Sacks <editor<editor%40realization.org><editor%40realiza\ tion.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><mail\ to:editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><editor@real\ ization.org<editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><ma\ ilto:editor%40realization.org><editor%40realization.org><editor%40\ realization.org><editor%40realization.org>>> wrote: > This sounds like a bad translation. Why? It sounds right to me. > > Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40com><Realization%40><Realization%40ya\ hoogroups.com><Realization <Realization%40grou\ ps.com><Realization%40><Realization%40.c\ om><Realization%40><Realization%40><\ Realization%40>> > [Realization@com<Realization%40><\ Realization%40><Realization%40>] On Behalf Of Cliff Shack > Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:57 PM > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization%40><Realization\ %40><Realization%40><Realization%40y\ ahoogroups.com><Realization%40> > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > This sounds like a bad translation. > > Rob Sacks wrote: " When the > rejection of mental activities becomes continuous and > automatic, you will begin to have the experience of the Self. " > > - Annamalai Swami, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, page 263 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release 12/30/2007 11:27 AM ................................................. By sending a message to this mail group, you are giving permission to have it reproduced as a letter on http://www.realization.org<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.o\ rg/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realiza\ tion.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www\ ..realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http:\ //www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/\ ><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>><http://wwwrealizat\ ion.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.rea\ lization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://\ www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/<\ http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.\ org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.reali\ zation.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://\ www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><\ http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.\ org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.reali\ zation.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://ww\ w.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http\ ://www.realization.org/>>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.o\ rg/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realiz\ ation.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.r\ ealization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http\ ://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org\ /<http://www.realization.org/><http://wwwrealization.org/<http://www.realization\ ..org/>>>>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.\ realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http ://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>\ >><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realizati\ on.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.rea\ lization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>><http:\ //www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<\ http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization\ ..org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www.rea\ lization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://ww\ w.realization.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><ht\ tp://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>>><http://www.realizatio\ norg/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realiz\ ation.org/>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www\ ..realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/<htt\ p://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org\ />><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realizat\ ion.org/<http://www.realization.org/>>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.\ realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http\ ://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/\ <http://www.realization.org/>>><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realizati\ on.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://www.realization.org/>><http://www.re\ alization.org/<http://www.realization.org/><http://www.realization.org/<http://w\ ww.realization.org/>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 You are the subject. Your thoughts are the object. According to your logic....when you speak, you exist. When you are silent, you cease to exist. Can that be true? Thought is just mind speech. When your mind is silent, you are still there. Where are you between the thoughts in your mind. Do you disappear between thoughts. If you think slowly to your self: I..............Am....................Judy According to you you appeared three times and disappeared twice. Cliff Realization , judy <judyw1941 wrote: > > Cliff, I would like to give the incorrect answer but is the only answer > I have to that question of who am I. I would say that I am my thoughts > and as long as I have a mind to think with then I exist. When that mind > is gone or impaired, I no longer exist. > > Judy > --------- > Orva, > > Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what do > you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what is > the word? What remains? > > Cliff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Judy, my friend. My advice is to listen very very closely to Cliff. Get ready for a great trip. - Clifford Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:25 PM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? You are the subject. Your thoughts are the object. According to your logic....when you speak, you exist. When you are silent, you cease to exist. Can that be true? Thought is just mind speech. When your mind is silent, you are still there. Where are you between the thoughts in your mind. Do you disappear between thoughts. If you think slowly to your self: I..............Am....................Judy According to you you appeared three times and disappeared twice. Cliff Realization <Realization%40>, judy <judyw1941 wrote: > > Cliff, I would like to give the incorrect answer but is the only answer > I have to that question of who am I. I would say that I am my thoughts > and as long as I have a mind to think with then I exist. When that mind > is gone or impaired, I no longer exist. > > Judy > --------- > Orva, > > Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what do > you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what is > the word? What remains? > > Cliff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Orva, I believe that there is something else, something immovable, that is blocking your " spiritual " progress. For $64,000 can you guess what it is? Cliff Realization , " orva schrock " <otsclu wrote: > > Judy, my friend. My advice is to listen very very closely to Cliff. Get ready for a great trip. > - > Clifford Shack<cliff_shack > To: Realization <Realization > > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:25 PM > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > > You are the subject. Your thoughts are the object. > > According to your logic....when you speak, you exist. When you are > silent, you cease to exist. > > Can that be true? > > Thought is just mind speech. > > When your mind is silent, you are still there. Where are you between > the thoughts in your mind. Do you disappear between thoughts. If you > think slowly to your self: > > I..............Am....................Judy > > According to you you appeared three times and disappeared twice. > > Cliff > > Realization <Realization% 40>, judy <judyw1941@> wrote: > > > > Cliff, I would like to give the incorrect answer but is the only > answer > > I have to that question of who am I. I would say that I am my > thoughts > > and as long as I have a mind to think with then I exist. When that > mind > > is gone or impaired, I no longer exist. > > > > Judy > > --------- > > Orva, > > > > Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what > do > > you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what > is > > the word? What remains? > > > > Cliff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 ego? - Clifford Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:28 AM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Orva, I believe that there is something else, something immovable, that is blocking your " spiritual " progress. For $64,000 can you guess what it is? Cliff Realization <Realization >, " orva schrock " <otsclu wrote: > > Judy, my friend. My advice is to listen very very closely to Cliff. Get ready for a great trip. > - > Clifford Shack<cliff_shack > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:25 PM > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > > You are the subject. Your thoughts are the object. > > According to your logic....when you speak, you exist. When you are > silent, you cease to exist. > > Can that be true? > > Thought is just mind speech. > > When your mind is silent, you are still there. Where are you between > the thoughts in your mind. Do you disappear between thoughts. If you > think slowly to your self: > > I.............Am....................Judy > > According to you you appeared three times and disappeared twice. > > Cliff > > --- In Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion% 40>, judy <judyw1941@> wrote: > > > > Cliff, I would like to give the incorrect answer but is the only > answer > > I have to that question of who am I. I would say that I am my > thoughts > > and as long as I have a mind to think with then I exist. When that > mind > > is gone or impaired, I no longer exist. > > > > Judy > > --------- > > Orva, > > > > Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what > do > > you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what > is > > the word? What remains? > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Story. The fascinating story of " Orva Schrock " .Story is past. Unreal. Self is real. What you are is here. " Orva Schrock " is not here. Loose the story. What remains? orva schrock <otsclu wrote: ego? - Clifford Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:28 AM Re: When Will You Experience the Self? Orva, I believe that there is something else, something immovable, that is blocking your " spiritual " progress. For $64,000 can you guess what it is? Cliff Realization <Realization >, " orva schrock " <otsclu wrote: > > Judy, my friend. My advice is to listen very very closely to Cliff. Get ready for a great trip. > - > Clifford Shack<cliff_shack > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:25 PM > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > > You are the subject. Your thoughts are the object. > > According to your logic....when you speak, you exist. When you are > silent, you cease to exist. > > Can that be true? > > Thought is just mind speech. > > When your mind is silent, you are still there. Where are you between > the thoughts in your mind. Do you disappear between thoughts. If you > think slowly to your self: > > I.............Am....................Judy > > According to you you appeared three times and disappeared twice. > > Cliff > > --- In Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion% 40>, judy <judyw1941@> wrote: > > > > Cliff, I would like to give the incorrect answer but is the only > answer > > I have to that question of who am I. I would say that I am my > thoughts > > and as long as I have a mind to think with then I exist. When that > mind > > is gone or impaired, I no longer exist. > > > > Judy > > --------- > > Orva, > > > > Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what > do > > you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what > is > > the word? What remains? > > > > Cliff > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 P.S Judy, i absolutely agree with you. If we could understand silence, all contradictions will become complimentary and belongs to the ONE. Infact Self Realization is just a new beginning to atract seeker. Lord Budha said NoSelf Realization (Anatta), because to experience it, mind ceased and " I " no longer exist.The drop has turn into the oceans, we are IT, and posessed by IT. The Father and I are One, but all words will become false as mind re enter again... judy <judyw1941 wrote: Cliff, I would like to give the incorrect answer but is the only answer I have to that question of who am I. I would say that I am my thoughts and as long as I have a mind to think with then I exist. When that mind is gone or impaired, I no longer exist. Judy --------- Orva, Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , what do you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, what is the word? What remains? Cliff Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Then who replied to the post? Realization , " orva schrock " <otsclu wrote: > > No story, > No name, > No ego, > No " me, me, me...??? " > > - > Cliff Shack<cliff_shack > To: Realization <Realization > > Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:42 PM > Re: Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > > Story. The fascinating story of " Orva Schrock " .Story is past. Unreal. Self is real. What you are is here. " Orva Schrock " is not here. Loose the story. What remains? > > orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu> wrote: ego? > - > Clifford Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack> > To: Realization <Realization ><mailto :Realization <Realization%40>> > Thursday, January 03, 2008 11:28 AM > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > Orva, > > I believe that there is something else, something immovable, that is > blocking your " spiritual " progress. For $64,000 can you guess what it > is? > > Cliff > > Realization <Realization% 40><Realization <Realizati on%40>>, " orva schrock " <otsclu@> wrote: > > > > Judy, my friend. My advice is to listen very very closely to Cliff. > Get ready for a great trip. > > - > > Clifford Shack<cliff_shack@> > > To: > Realization <Realization% 40><Realization% 40><Realization <Realizati on%40><Realization%40>> > > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:25 PM > > Re: When Will You Experience the Self? > > > > > > You are the subject. Your thoughts are the object. > > > > According to your logic....when you speak, you exist. When you > are > > silent, you cease to exist. > > > > Can that be true? > > > > Thought is just mind speech. > > > > When your mind is silent, you are still there. Where are you > between > > the thoughts in your mind. Do you disappear between thoughts. If > you > > think slowly to your self: > > > > I.............Am....................Judy > > > > According to you you appeared three times and disappeared twice. > > > > Cliff > > > > Realization <Realization% 40><Realization% 40><Realization% > 40>, judy <judyw1941@> wrote: > > > > > > Cliff, I would like to give the incorrect answer but is the > only > > answer > > > I have to that question of who am I. I would say that I am my > > thoughts > > > and as long as I have a mind to think with then I exist. When > that > > mind > > > is gone or impaired, I no longer exist. > > > > > > Judy > > > --------- > > > Orva, > > > > > > Let me ask you a question. When you ask yourself, " Who Am I? " , > what > > do > > > you notice remaining? Can you describe it in one word? If so, > what > > is > > > the word? What remains? > > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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