Guest guest Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. What can be easier than that? - Ramana Maharshi From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Very complicated for those who have compicated and sophisticated head.Man has gone too far in the head. But for the heart, what can be easier than that?For those who extrovert at heart, love is the path and the introvert one,meditation is the way.Start with love, the end is meditation. Start with meditation, the end is love.Our journey to the world start from navel move to the heart and stuck in the head. And the reverse will be our inner journey.Surrender to the vast and unknown..sit silently, doing nothing and the grass grow on its own. Clifford Shack <cliff_shack wrote: All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. What can be easier than that? - Ramana Maharshi From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. Ramon Leonato <raman wrote: On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Thanks, Rhyndrati for your various recent comments, including this one. Please know the following is in no way a criticism of you [i really like you] or anyone else, its just what's here now. They say seeing the Reality is easy. You are already That, That thou art, There's no place to go and nothing to do, etc, etc, etc. Yes, that all sounds real good. Rolls right off the tongue. I've got IT, and here it is!!! In the perfect theoretical spiritual universe these cliches may indeed be the absolute bottom line truths to end all truth. But " I " seriously doubt that many of us really Know and See the actual depth and essence of what's being said. And I am as guilty as anyone else; well, o k more guilty than most. It's just pretty damn hard to have read hundreds or thousands of " spiritual " books, watched hours of youtube clips, met some semi-famous folks in the spirituality business, had amazing internal experiences of light and love for all man/womankind, done some writing, pretended to be what we knew we weren't a time or two, attended satsangs and seminars and retreats, taken our fair share of entheogens, and STILL be left sitting here alone at a keyboard with a bad cold and a fever and knowing: No, most of the time I really really DON'T see it, DON'T understand, I'm just really really NOT enlightened. And all the slogans and easy answers don't make any difference if I'm honest. I'm still convinced that there must be a deep internal preconscious and preverbal occurrence or change of the " spiritual heart. " Call it guru's grace, God's mercy, spontaneous transformation, call it what you will but it's something beyond the simple sayings we all too easily throw around. Until I get a better roadmap, I'm a Ramana devotee. I don't know any other teacher who even comes close when you consider the totality of his life and message. Yes, I know he says, " the answer is simply to find out who's asking. " And I do believe that, his life seems to demonstrate an undoubtable saintliness and spiritual authenticity. Yet I don't know who's asking. He also says, the other way to peace is surrender. " Surrender to me and I will strike down the mind. " [thus revealing the self] SO, my thinking and efforts are coming up short, I vow no more pretensions, I'm asking Ramana here and now for the world to see; accept my surrender and grant me peace. [whatever that finally means] Orva - rhyndrati oentara<oentaraningsih Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:42 AM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. Ramon Leonato <raman<raman> wrote: On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 You are there Orva, Your sincerity and honesty is driving you One of these days, all of a sudden you will discover the only One Living Guru Thyself, and all around you. I love you Raman On 1/2/08 6:08 AM, " orva schrock " <otsclu wrote: > > > > > Thanks, Rhyndrati for your various recent comments, including this one. Please > know the following is in no way a criticism of you [i really like you] or > anyone else, its just what's here now. > They say seeing the Reality is easy. > You are already That, > That thou art, > There's no place to go and nothing to do, etc, etc, etc. > Yes, that all sounds real good. Rolls right off the tongue. I've got IT, and > here it is!!! > In the perfect theoretical spiritual universe these cliches may indeed be the > absolute bottom line truths to end all truth. But " I " seriously doubt that > many of us really Know and See the actual depth and essence of what's being > said. And I am as guilty as anyone else; well, o k more guilty than most. It's > just pretty damn hard to have read hundreds or thousands of " spiritual " books, > watched hours of youtube clips, met some semi-famous folks in the spirituality > business, had amazing internal experiences of light and love for all > man/womankind, done some writing, pretended to be what we knew we weren't a > time or two, attended satsangs and seminars and retreats, taken our fair share > of entheogens, and STILL be left sitting here alone at a keyboard with a bad > cold and a fever and knowing: No, most of the time I really really DON'T see > it, DON'T understand, I'm just really really NOT enlightened. And all the > slogans and easy answers don't make any difference i f I'm honest. > I'm still convinced that there must be a deep internal preconscious and > preverbal occurrence or change of the " spiritual heart. " Call it guru's grace, > God's mercy, spontaneous transformation, call it what you will but it's > something beyond the simple sayings we all too easily throw around. > Until I get a better roadmap, I'm a Ramana devotee. I don't know any other > teacher who even comes close when you consider the totality of his life and > message. Yes, I know he says, " the answer is simply to find out who's asking. " > And I do believe that, his life seems to demonstrate an undoubtable > saintliness and spiritual authenticity. Yet I don't know who's asking. He also > says, the other way to peace is surrender. " Surrender to me and I will strike > down the mind. " [thus revealing the self] > SO, my thinking and efforts are coming up short, I vow no more pretensions, > I'm asking Ramana here and now for the world to see; accept my surrender and > grant me peace. [whatever that finally means] > Orva > - > rhyndrati oentara<oentaraningsih > <oentaraningsih%40> <oentaraningsih > > > Realization <Realization%40> > <Realization <Realization%40> > <Realization > > > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:42 AM > Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self > > Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe > different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman > Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ > in the future.. > > Ramon Leonato <raman <raman%40ifsu.org> <raman > <raman%40ifsu.org> <raman > >> wrote: > > On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack > <cliff_shack%40> <cliff_shack%40>> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. >> > >> > What can be easier than that? >> > >> > - Ramana Maharshi >> > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey >> > > It is in the Bible{ > > Be still and know that I am > > Raman > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I came across that a few weeks ago on the " Christ in the Desert " monastery website while I was exploring Georgia O'Keefe and her New Mexico... so I looked into it. Apparently " Be Still " is not the literal translation of the Hebrew word " Harpoo " . Those that are familiar with Hebrew translate the word into English as " Desist " . " Desist " is also a good word for our needs. As you can probably tell...I'm a delver by nature. http://wlcv.hebrewtanakh.com/psalms/46.htm Cliff Ramon Leonato <raman wrote: On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I hear you brother. I feel your anguish. orva schrock <otsclu wrote: Thanks, Rhyndrati for your various recent comments, including this one. Please know the following is in no way a criticism of you [i really like you] or anyone else, its just what's here now. They say seeing the Reality is easy. You are already That, That thou art, There's no place to go and nothing to do, etc, etc, etc. Yes, that all sounds real good. Rolls right off the tongue. I've got IT, and here it is!!! In the perfect theoretical spiritual universe these cliches may indeed be the absolute bottom line truths to end all truth. But " I " seriously doubt that many of us really Know and See the actual depth and essence of what's being said. And I am as guilty as anyone else; well, o k more guilty than most. It's just pretty damn hard to have read hundreds or thousands of " spiritual " books, watched hours of youtube clips, met some semi-famous folks in the spirituality business, had amazing internal experiences of light and love for all man/womankind, done some writing, pretended to be what we knew we weren't a time or two, attended satsangs and seminars and retreats, taken our fair share of entheogens, and STILL be left sitting here alone at a keyboard with a bad cold and a fever and knowing: No, most of the time I really really DON'T see it, DON'T understand, I'm just really really NOT enlightened. And all the slogans and easy answers don't make any difference if I'm honest. I'm still convinced that there must be a deep internal preconscious and preverbal occurrence or change of the " spiritual heart. " Call it guru's grace, God's mercy, spontaneous transformation, call it what you will but it's something beyond the simple sayings we all too easily throw around. Until I get a better roadmap, I'm a Ramana devotee. I don't know any other teacher who even comes close when you consider the totality of his life and message. Yes, I know he says, " the answer is simply to find out who's asking. " And I do believe that, his life seems to demonstrate an undoubtable saintliness and spiritual authenticity. Yet I don't know who's asking. He also says, the other way to peace is surrender. " Surrender to me and I will strike down the mind. " [thus revealing the self] SO, my thinking and efforts are coming up short, I vow no more pretensions, I'm asking Ramana here and now for the world to see; accept my surrender and grant me peace. [whatever that finally means] Orva - rhyndrati oentara<oentaraningsih Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:42 AM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. Ramon Leonato <raman<raman> wrote: On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Orva, You and I cannot know or see It. Because we ARE It. Without the help of reflection, can your eyes see themselves? Of course not. In your case, what is trying to see the Self that is being spoken about, is the thought " I " . The problem is is that the thought " I " , the foundation of what you think you are does not exist. " I " is a thought. How can a thought see itself? So if the thought " I " can't possibly be seeking anything, then who is doing the seeking? Who is looking for what? The answer is absurd, according to Ramana. The answer is that the self is looking for the self. This absurdity is the joke. The punchline that you appear to be missing. It's a punchline that's going over the head. Like any joke that goes over the head it is just a matter of pondering until....Zap. Then the laughter begins. So don't get discouraged. The punchline is well worth the effort. By the way....do you own an Ipod? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu wrote: Thanks, Rhyndrati for your various recent comments, including this one. Please know the following is in no way a criticism of you [i really like you] or anyone else, its just what's here now. They say seeing the Reality is easy. You are already That, That thou art, There's no place to go and nothing to do, etc, etc, etc. Yes, that all sounds real good. Rolls right off the tongue. I've got IT, and here it is!!! In the perfect theoretical spiritual universe these cliches may indeed be the absolute bottom line truths to end all truth. But " I " seriously doubt that many of us really Know and See the actual depth and essence of what's being said. And I am as guilty as anyone else; well, o k more guilty than most. It's just pretty damn hard to have read hundreds or thousands of " spiritual " books, watched hours of youtube clips, met some semi-famous folks in the spirituality business, had amazing internal experiences of light and love for all man/womankind, done some writing, pretended to be what we knew we weren't a time or two, attended satsangs and seminars and retreats, taken our fair share of entheogens, and STILL be left sitting here alone at a keyboard with a bad cold and a fever and knowing: No, most of the time I really really DON'T see it, DON'T understand, I'm just really really NOT enlightened. And all the slogans and easy answers don't make any difference if I'm honest. I'm still convinced that there must be a deep internal preconscious and preverbal occurrence or change of the " spiritual heart. " Call it guru's grace, God's mercy, spontaneous transformation, call it what you will but it's something beyond the simple sayings we all too easily throw around. Until I get a better roadmap, I'm a Ramana devotee. I don't know any other teacher who even comes close when you consider the totality of his life and message. Yes, I know he says, " the answer is simply to find out who's asking. " And I do believe that, his life seems to demonstrate an undoubtable saintliness and spiritual authenticity. Yet I don't know who's asking. He also says, the other way to peace is surrender. " Surrender to me and I will strike down the mind. " [thus revealing the self] SO, my thinking and efforts are coming up short, I vow no more pretensions, I'm asking Ramana here and now for the world to see; accept my surrender and grant me peace. [whatever that finally means] Orva - rhyndrati oentara<oentaraningsih Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:42 AM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. Ramon Leonato <raman<raman> wrote: On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Very nicely put. It seems true. So what's the response to that? Do " I " contemplate what you just said? Then I'm back to identifying with the I thought......grrrr. Is it just a cosmic joke, I. e., awareness playing hide and seek with awareness? [there it goes, trying to be clever again, gack!] - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:57 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Orva, You and I cannot know or see It. Because we ARE It. Without the help of reflection, can your eyes see themselves? Of course not. In your case, what is trying to see the Self that is being spoken about, is the thought " I " . The problem is is that the thought " I " , the foundation of what you think you are does not exist. " I " is a thought. How can a thought see itself? So if the thought " I " can't possibly be seeking anything, then who is doing the seeking? Who is looking for what? The answer is absurd, according to Ramana. The answer is that the self is looking for the self. This absurdity is the joke. The punchline that you appear to be missing. It's a punchline that's going over the head. Like any joke that goes over the head it is just a matter of pondering until....Zap. Then the laughter begins. So don't get discouraged. The punchline is well worth the effort. By the way....do you own an Ipod? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: Thanks, Rhyndrati for your various recent comments, including this one. Please know the following is in no way a criticism of you [i really like you] or anyone else, its just what's here now. They say seeing the Reality is easy. You are already That, That thou art, There's no place to go and nothing to do, etc, etc, etc. Yes, that all sounds real good. Rolls right off the tongue. I've got IT, and here it is!!! In the perfect theoretical spiritual universe these cliches may indeed be the absolute bottom line truths to end all truth. But " I " seriously doubt that many of us really Know and See the actual depth and essence of what's being said. And I am as guilty as anyone else; well, o k more guilty than most. It's just pretty damn hard to have read hundreds or thousands of " spiritual " books, watched hours of youtube clips, met some semi-famous folks in the spirituality business, had amazing internal experiences of light and love for all man/womankind, done some writing, pretended to be what we knew we weren't a time or two, attended satsangs and seminars and retreats, taken our fair share of entheogens, and STILL be left sitting here alone at a keyboard with a bad cold and a fever and knowing: No, most of the time I really really DON'T see it, DON'T understand, I'm just really really NOT enlightened. And all the slogans and easy answers don't make any difference if I'm honest. I'm still convinced that there must be a deep internal preconscious and preverbal occurrence or change of the " spiritual heart. " Call it guru's grace, God's mercy, spontaneous transformation, call it what you will but it's something beyond the simple sayings we all too easily throw around. Until I get a better roadmap, I'm a Ramana devotee. I don't know any other teacher who even comes close when you consider the totality of his life and message. Yes, I know he says, " the answer is simply to find out who's asking. " And I do believe that, his life seems to demonstrate an undoubtable saintliness and spiritual authenticity. Yet I don't know who's asking. He also says, the other way to peace is surrender. " Surrender to me and I will strike down the mind. " [thus revealing the self] SO, my thinking and efforts are coming up short, I vow no more pretensions, I'm asking Ramana here and now for the world to see; accept my surrender and grant me peace. [whatever that finally means] Orva - rhyndrati oentara<oentaraningsih<oentaraningsih%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:42 AM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. Ramon Leonato <raman<raman%40ifsu.org><raman<raman%40if\ su.org>>> wrote: On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40yaho\ o.com>> wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 You're almost home. You have achieved single-pointedness! You have reduced yourself to the thought " I " . Ready for the next step. It's really very very complicated.Very MYSTICAL! Oooooo. It's not my advice. I heard it from Papaji. Let's take it step by step. Conduct the following mental excercise. Scroll down slowly. Q. Who am I? A. I am me. Q. Who is me? A. I am. Q. Who am I? A. I Now grab the " I " by the throat. Repeat it. " I " " I " " I " Now, In the words of Papaji, Destroy the I orva schrock <otsclu wrote: Very nicely put. It seems true. So what's the response to that? Do " I " contemplate what you just said? Then I'm back to identifying with the I thought......grrrr. Is it just a cosmic joke, I. e., awareness playing hide and seek with awareness? [there it goes, trying to be clever again, gack!] - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:57 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Orva, You and I cannot know or see It. Because we ARE It. Without the help of reflection, can your eyes see themselves? Of course not. In your case, what is trying to see the Self that is being spoken about, is the thought " I " . The problem is is that the thought " I " , the foundation of what you think you are does not exist. " I " is a thought. How can a thought see itself? So if the thought " I " can't possibly be seeking anything, then who is doing the seeking? Who is looking for what? The answer is absurd, according to Ramana. The answer is that the self is looking for the self. This absurdity is the joke. The punchline that you appear to be missing. It's a punchline that's going over the head. Like any joke that goes over the head it is just a matter of pondering until....Zap. Then the laughter begins. So don't get discouraged. The punchline is well worth the effort. By the way....do you own an Ipod? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: Thanks, Rhyndrati for your various recent comments, including this one. Please know the following is in no way a criticism of you [i really like you] or anyone else, its just what's here now. They say seeing the Reality is easy. You are already That, That thou art, There's no place to go and nothing to do, etc, etc, etc. Yes, that all sounds real good. Rolls right off the tongue. I've got IT, and here it is!!! In the perfect theoretical spiritual universe these cliches may indeed be the absolute bottom line truths to end all truth. But " I " seriously doubt that many of us really Know and See the actual depth and essence of what's being said. And I am as guilty as anyone else; well, o k more guilty than most. It's just pretty damn hard to have read hundreds or thousands of " spiritual " books, watched hours of youtube clips, met some semi-famous folks in the spirituality business, had amazing internal experiences of light and love for all man/womankind, done some writing, pretended to be what we knew we weren't a time or two, attended satsangs and seminars and retreats, taken our fair share of entheogens, and STILL be left sitting here alone at a keyboard with a bad cold and a fever and knowing: No, most of the time I really really DON'T see it, DON'T understand, I'm just really really NOT enlightened. And all the slogans and easy answers don't make any difference if I'm honest. I'm still convinced that there must be a deep internal preconscious and preverbal occurrence or change of the " spiritual heart. " Call it guru's grace, God's mercy, spontaneous transformation, call it what you will but it's something beyond the simple sayings we all too easily throw around. Until I get a better roadmap, I'm a Ramana devotee. I don't know any other teacher who even comes close when you consider the totality of his life and message. Yes, I know he says, " the answer is simply to find out who's asking. " And I do believe that, his life seems to demonstrate an undoubtable saintliness and spiritual authenticity. Yet I don't know who's asking. He also says, the other way to peace is surrender. " Surrender to me and I will strike down the mind. " [thus revealing the self] SO, my thinking and efforts are coming up short, I vow no more pretensions, I'm asking Ramana here and now for the world to see; accept my surrender and grant me peace. [whatever that finally means] Orva - rhyndrati oentara<oentaraningsih<oentaraningsih%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:42 AM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. Ramon Leonato <raman<raman%40ifsu.org><raman<raman%40if\ su.org>>> wrote: On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40yaho\ o.com>> wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Contemplation is happened against the backdrop of Universal Conciousness. That is what has happened. But in reality nothing happened. Happen is past tense. So is happening. Its past. Past is thought. Nothing can happen in Now. Can it? How can the past be in the present? Do you see how flimsy it all is. So when you read that everything is conciousness...maybe that notion shouldn't be so easily dismissed. Perhaps conciousness derserves more respect. Perhaps conciousness deserves your trust. So when you reduce your self to conciousness... perhaps you have reached what we call in math class.... The least common denominator. Isn't this group fun? orva schrock <otsclu wrote: Very nicely put. It seems true. So what's the response to that? Do " I " contemplate what you just said? Then I'm back to identifying with the I thought......grrrr. Is it just a cosmic joke, I. e., awareness playing hide and seek with awareness? [there it goes, trying to be clever again, gack!] - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:57 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Orva, You and I cannot know or see It. Because we ARE It. Without the help of reflection, can your eyes see themselves? Of course not. In your case, what is trying to see the Self that is being spoken about, is the thought " I " . The problem is is that the thought " I " , the foundation of what you think you are does not exist. " I " is a thought. How can a thought see itself? So if the thought " I " can't possibly be seeking anything, then who is doing the seeking? Who is looking for what? The answer is absurd, according to Ramana. The answer is that the self is looking for the self. This absurdity is the joke. The punchline that you appear to be missing. It's a punchline that's going over the head. Like any joke that goes over the head it is just a matter of pondering until....Zap. Then the laughter begins. So don't get discouraged. The punchline is well worth the effort. By the way....do you own an Ipod? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: Thanks, Rhyndrati for your various recent comments, including this one. Please know the following is in no way a criticism of you [i really like you] or anyone else, its just what's here now. They say seeing the Reality is easy. You are already That, That thou art, There's no place to go and nothing to do, etc, etc, etc. Yes, that all sounds real good. Rolls right off the tongue. I've got IT, and here it is!!! In the perfect theoretical spiritual universe these cliches may indeed be the absolute bottom line truths to end all truth. But " I " seriously doubt that many of us really Know and See the actual depth and essence of what's being said. And I am as guilty as anyone else; well, o k more guilty than most. It's just pretty damn hard to have read hundreds or thousands of " spiritual " books, watched hours of youtube clips, met some semi-famous folks in the spirituality business, had amazing internal experiences of light and love for all man/womankind, done some writing, pretended to be what we knew we weren't a time or two, attended satsangs and seminars and retreats, taken our fair share of entheogens, and STILL be left sitting here alone at a keyboard with a bad cold and a fever and knowing: No, most of the time I really really DON'T see it, DON'T understand, I'm just really really NOT enlightened. And all the slogans and easy answers don't make any difference if I'm honest. I'm still convinced that there must be a deep internal preconscious and preverbal occurrence or change of the " spiritual heart. " Call it guru's grace, God's mercy, spontaneous transformation, call it what you will but it's something beyond the simple sayings we all too easily throw around. Until I get a better roadmap, I'm a Ramana devotee. I don't know any other teacher who even comes close when you consider the totality of his life and message. Yes, I know he says, " the answer is simply to find out who's asking. " And I do believe that, his life seems to demonstrate an undoubtable saintliness and spiritual authenticity. Yet I don't know who's asking. He also says, the other way to peace is surrender. " Surrender to me and I will strike down the mind. " [thus revealing the self] SO, my thinking and efforts are coming up short, I vow no more pretensions, I'm asking Ramana here and now for the world to see; accept my surrender and grant me peace. [whatever that finally means] Orva - rhyndrati oentara<oentaraningsih<oentaraningsih%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:42 AM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. Ramon Leonato <raman<raman%40ifsu.org><raman<raman%40if\ su.org>>> wrote: On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40yaho\ o.com>> wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 " Past " is a thought. " Present " is a thought. " Future " is a thought. Thoughts arise from the thinker. The thinker is the ego. The ego is the thought " I " which, if sought, automatically vanishes. Realization , rhyndrati oentara <oentaraningsih wrote: > > Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. > > Ramon Leonato <raman wrote: > > On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > > > What can be easier than that? > > > > - Ramana Maharshi > > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > > > It is in the Bible{ > > Be still and know that I am > > Raman > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 the s o b is thrashing about my in grasp.... - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:09 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self You're almost home. You have achieved single-pointedness! You have reduced yourself to the thought " I " . Ready for the next step. It's really very very complicated.Very MYSTICAL! Oooooo. It's not my advice. I heard it from Papaji. Let's take it step by step. Conduct the following mental excercise. Scroll down slowly. Q. Who am I? A. I am me. Q. Who is me? A. I am. Q. Who am I? A. I Now grab the " I " by the throat. Repeat it. " I " " I " " I " Now, In the words of Papaji, Destroy the I orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: Very nicely put. It seems true. So what's the response to that? Do " I " contemplate what you just said? Then I'm back to identifying with the I thought......grrrr. Is it just a cosmic joke, I. e., awareness playing hide and seek with awareness? [there it goes, trying to be clever again, gack!] - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:57 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Orva, You and I cannot know or see It. Because we ARE It. Without the help of reflection, can your eyes see themselves? Of course not. In your case, what is trying to see the Self that is being spoken about, is the thought " I " . The problem is is that the thought " I " , the foundation of what you think you are does not exist. " I " is a thought. How can a thought see itself? So if the thought " I " can't possibly be seeking anything, then who is doing the seeking? Who is looking for what? The answer is absurd, according to Ramana. The answer is that the self is looking for the self. This absurdity is the joke. The punchline that you appear to be missing. It's a punchline that's going over the head. Like any joke that goes over the head it is just a matter of pondering until....Zap. Then the laughter begins. So don't get discouraged. The punchline is well worth the effort. By the way....do you own an Ipod? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: Thanks, Rhyndrati for your various recent comments, including this one. Please know the following is in no way a criticism of you [i really like you] or anyone else, its just what's here now. They say seeing the Reality is easy. You are already That, That thou art, There's no place to go and nothing to do, etc, etc, etc. Yes, that all sounds real good. Rolls right off the tongue. I've got IT, and here it is!!! In the perfect theoretical spiritual universe these cliches may indeed be the absolute bottom line truths to end all truth. But " I " seriously doubt that many of us really Know and See the actual depth and essence of what's being said. And I am as guilty as anyone else; well, o k more guilty than most. It's just pretty damn hard to have read hundreds or thousands of " spiritual " books, watched hours of youtube clips, met some semi-famous folks in the spirituality business, had amazing internal experiences of light and love for all man/womankind, done some writing, pretended to be what we knew we weren't a time or two, attended satsangs and seminars and retreats, taken our fair share of entheogens, and STILL be left sitting here alone at a keyboard with a bad cold and a fever and knowing: No, most of the time I really really DON'T see it, DON'T understand, I'm just really really NOT enlightened. And all the slogans and easy answers don't make any difference if I'm honest. I'm still convinced that there must be a deep internal preconscious and preverbal occurrence or change of the " spiritual heart. " Call it guru's grace, God's mercy, spontaneous transformation, call it what you will but it's something beyond the simple sayings we all too easily throw around. Until I get a better roadmap, I'm a Ramana devotee. I don't know any other teacher who even comes close when you consider the totality of his life and message. Yes, I know he says, " the answer is simply to find out who's asking. " And I do believe that, his life seems to demonstrate an undoubtable saintliness and spiritual authenticity. Yet I don't know who's asking. He also says, the other way to peace is surrender. " Surrender to me and I will strike down the mind. " [thus revealing the self] SO, my thinking and efforts are coming up short, I vow no more pretensions, I'm asking Ramana here and now for the world to see; accept my surrender and grant me peace. [whatever that finally means] Orva - rhyndrati oentara<oentaraningsih<oentaraningsih%40><mailt\ o:oentaraningsih%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:42 AM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. Ramon Leonato <raman<raman%40ifsu.org><raman%40ifsu.org><raman@i\ fsu.org<raman%40ifsu.org><raman%40ifsu.org>>> wrote: On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40yaho\ o.com><cliff_shack%40>> wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 you mean I don't get to be a big deal? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:25 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Contemplation is happened against the backdrop of Universal Conciousness. That is what has happened. But in reality nothing happened. Happen is past tense. So is happening. Its past. Past is thought. Nothing can happen in Now. Can it? How can the past be in the present? Do you see how flimsy it all is. So when you read that everything is conciousness...maybe that notion shouldn't be so easily dismissed. Perhaps conciousness derserves more respect. Perhaps conciousness deserves your trust. So when you reduce your self to conciousness... perhaps you have reached what we call in math class.... The least common denominator. Isn't this group fun? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: Very nicely put. It seems true. So what's the response to that? Do " I " contemplate what you just said? Then I'm back to identifying with the I thought......grrrr. Is it just a cosmic joke, I. e., awareness playing hide and seek with awareness? [there it goes, trying to be clever again, gack!] - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:57 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Orva, You and I cannot know or see It Because we ARE It. Without the help of reflection, can your eyes see themselves? Of course not. In your case, what is trying to see the Self that is being spoken about, is the thought " I " . The problem is is that the thought " I " , the foundation of what you think you are does not exist. " I " is a thought. How can a thought see itself? So if the thought " I " can't possibly be seeking anything, then who is doing the seeking? Who is looking for what? The answer is absurd, according to Ramana. The answer is that the self is looking for the self. This absurdity is the joke. The punchline that you appear to be missing. It's a punchline that's going over the head. Like any joke that goes over the head it is just a matter of pondering until....Zap. Then the laughter begins. So don't get discouraged. The punchline is well worth the effort. By the way....do you own an Ipod? Cliff orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu%40msn.com><otsclu%40msn.com>> wrote: Thanks, Rhyndrati for your various recent comments, including this one. Please know the following is in no way a criticism of you [i really like you] or anyone else, its just what's here now. They say seeing the Reality is easy. You are already That, That thou art, There's no place to go and nothing to do, etc, etc, etc. Yes, that all sounds real good. Rolls right off the tongue. I've got IT, and here it is!!! In the perfect theoretical spiritual universe these cliches may indeed be the absolute bottom line truths to end all truth. But " I " seriously doubt that many of us really Know and See the actual depth and essence of what's being said. And I am as guilty as anyone else; well, o k more guilty than most. It's just pretty damn hard to have read hundreds or thousands of " spiritual " books, watched hours of youtube clips, met some semi-famous folks in the spirituality business, had amazing internal experiences of light and love for all man/womankind, done some writing, pretended to be what we knew we weren't a time or two, attended satsangs and seminars and retreats, taken our fair share of entheogens, and STILL be left sitting here alone at a keyboard with a bad cold and a fever and knowing: No, most of the time I really really DON'T see it, DON'T understand, I'm just really really NOT enlightened. And all the slogans and easy answers don't make any difference if I'm honest. I'm still convinced that there must be a deep internal preconscious and preverbal occurrence or change of the " spiritual heart. " Call it guru's grace, God's mercy, spontaneous transformation, call it what you will but it's something beyond the simple sayings we all too easily throw around. Until I get a better roadmap, I'm a Ramana devotee. I don't know any other teacher who even comes close when you consider the totality of his life and message. Yes, I know he says, " the answer is simply to find out who's asking. " And I do believe that, his life seems to demonstrate an undoubtable saintliness and spiritual authenticity. Yet I don't know who's asking. He also says, the other way to peace is surrender. " Surrender to me and I will strike down the mind. " [thus revealing the self] SO, my thinking and efforts are coming up short, I vow no more pretensions, I'm asking Ramana here and now for the world to see; accept my surrender and grant me peace. [whatever that finally means] Orva - rhyndrati oentara<oentaraningsih<oentaraningsih%40><mailt\ o:oentaraningsih%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion%40><Realization <Realization%40\ ><Realization%40>> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:42 AM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness.There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. Ramon Leonato <raman<raman%40ifsu.org><raman%40ifsu.org><raman@i\ fsu.org<raman%40ifsu.org><raman%40ifsu.org>>> wrote: On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40><cliff_shack%40yaho\ o.com><cliff_shack%40>> wrote: > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > What can be easier than that? > > - Ramana Maharshi > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > It is in the Bible{ Be still and know that I am Raman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 maybe I'm amazed...Ramana said many times, " seek the source of the ego and it will disappear. " Could it be my surrender to Bhagavan is working this quickly? Next you're gonna tell me we're all one? And nothing ever happened? Well, its sounding better all the time. I just don't want to make myself puke by pretending something because it sounds cool.... I surrender, strike down my mind!!! oops, Ramana pointed out that the mind is just a bundle of thoughts... Not much there to be struck down then. If the ego is just a thought, I guess its been struck down too. Nothing left but consciousness. Which is one. Not two. So we're all IT? And that's that? Now what are " my " chances of remembering this? [i'm glad you apparently have time to goof off like I do. It plays.] - Clifford Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:06 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self " Past " is a thought. " Present " is a thought. " Future " is a thought. Thoughts arise from the thinker. The thinker is the ego. The ego is the thought " I " which, if sought, automatically vanishes. Realization <Realization >, rhyndrati oentara <oentaraningsih wrote: > > Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. > > Ramon Leonato <raman wrote: > > On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > > > What can be easier than that? > > > > - Ramana Maharshi > > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > > > It is in the Bible{ > > Be still and know that I am > > Raman > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 how long can you go without thinking a thought? orva schrock <otsclu wrote: maybe I'm amazed...Ramana said many times, " seek the source of the ego and it will disappear. " Could it be my surrender to Bhagavan is working this quickly? Next you're gonna tell me we're all one? And nothing ever happened? Well, its sounding better all the time. I just don't want to make myself puke by pretending something because it sounds cool.... I surrender, strike down my mind!!! oops, Ramana pointed out that the mind is just a bundle of thoughts... Not much there to be struck down then. If the ego is just a thought, I guess its been struck down too. Nothing left but consciousness. Which is one. Not two. So we're all IT? And that's that? Now what are " my " chances of remembering this? [i'm glad you apparently have time to goof off like I do. It plays.] - Clifford Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:06 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self " Past " is a thought. " Present " is a thought. " Future " is a thought. Thoughts arise from the thinker. The thinker is the ego. The ego is the thought " I " which, if sought, automatically vanishes. Realization <Realization >, rhyndrati oentara <oentaraningsih wrote: > > Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. > > Ramon Leonato <raman wrote: > > On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > > > What can be easier than that? > > > > - Ramana Maharshi > > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > > > It is in the Bible{ > > Be still and know that I am > > Raman > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 not very. is that the trick? - Cliff Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:28 PM Re: Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self how long can you go without thinking a thought? orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu> wrote: maybe I'm amazed...Ramana said many times, " seek the source of the ego and it will disappear. " Could it be my surrender to Bhagavan is working this quickly? Next you're gonna tell me we're all one? And nothing ever happened? Well, its sounding better all the time. I just don't want to make myself puke by pretending something because it sounds cool.... I surrender, strike down my mind!!! oops, Ramana pointed out that the mind is just a bundle of thoughts... Not much there to be struck down then. If the ego is just a thought, I guess its been struck down too. Nothing left but consciousness. Which is one. Not two. So we're all IT? And that's that? Now what are " my " chances of remembering this? [i'm glad you apparently have time to goof off like I do. It plays.] - Clifford Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack%40>> To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:06 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self " Past " is a thought. " Present " is a thought. " Future " is a thought. Thoughts arise from the thinker. The thinker is the ego. The ego is the thought " I " which, if sought, automatically vanishes. --- In Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>>, rhyndrati oentara <oentaraningsih wrote: > > Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will be more Christ in the future.. > > Ramon Leonato <raman wrote: > > On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > > > What can be easier than that? > > > > - Ramana Maharshi > > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > > > It is in the Bible{ > > Be still and know that I am > > Raman > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Yup. That's a biggy. Ramana's Maha Yoga, I've read, is considered an advanced form of teaching. You don't hear Ramana recommend Mantras to people. But if you have trouble stopping thought then a mantra will help you develop single-mindedness.Another method is just to abide in the pure consciousness that you discovered when you dissoled the " I " thought. Try and be thoughtless for as long as you can. Eventually, perhaps, you may develop a semblance of mastery over that loose cannon called " Mind " . Yup. Some forms of mind-control can be helpful. I can also recommend devotional chanting. Ever heard of Krishna Das. His chant Jaya Bhagavan is awesome especially when looking at pictures and teachings of Ramana. I highly recommend listening to Jaya Bhagavan while reading The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi: A Visual Journey. I'm sure you have that one. You can download Jaya Bhagavan, of course, off of iTunes for 99 cents. Life is beautiful! Realization , " orva schrock " <otsclu wrote: > > not very. is that the trick? > - > Cliff Shack<cliff_shack > To: Realization <Realization > > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:28 PM > Re: Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self > > > how long can you go without thinking a thought? > > orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu> wrote: maybe I'm amazed...Ramana said many times, " seek the source of the ego and it will disappear. " > Could it be my surrender to Bhagavan is working this quickly? > Next you're gonna tell me we're all one? And nothing ever happened? Well, its sounding better all the time. I just don't want to make myself puke by pretending something because it sounds cool.... > I surrender, strike down my mind!!! oops, Ramana pointed out that the mind is just a bundle of thoughts... > Not much there to be struck down then. If the ego is just a thought, I guess its been struck down too. > Nothing left but consciousness. Which is one. Not two. > So we're all IT? And that's that? > Now what are " my " chances of remembering this? > [i'm glad you apparently have time to goof off like I do. It plays.] > - > Clifford Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack% 40>> > Realization <Realization% 40><Realization <Realizati on%40>> > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:06 PM > Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self > > " Past " is a thought. " Present " is a thought. " Future " is a thought. > Thoughts arise from the thinker. The thinker is the ego. The ego is > the thought " I " which, if sought, automatically vanishes. > > Realization <Realization% 40><Realization <Realizati on%40>>, rhyndrati oentara > <oentaraningsih@> wrote: > > > > Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe > different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, > Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will > be more Christ in the future.. > > > > Ramon Leonato <raman@> wrote: > > > > On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > > > > > What can be easier than that? > > > > > > - Ramana Maharshi > > > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > > > > > It is in the Bible{ > > > > Be still and know that I am > > > > Raman > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Yo, bro, I have the book, " Maha Yoga " by WHO. It's been a few years since I've read it, but I think I'll dig it out again. I remember it as being very good. I reviewed it on Amazon. Krishna Das? YEP, got several of his chant CDs and a couple videos, too. I actually am a long time chanter, the next scheduled chant is here in my home a week from today. Are you busy? We do some of Robert Gass' chants and a lot of the ones from the folks at Siddha Yoga. [google: siddha yoga bookstore] For anyone who hasn't tried chanting, it's a great fun way to do deep meditation. In all sincerety, Cliff, [and Ramon] you've been a BIG help to me today. I'm feeling lighter and more free, getting the old train back on track. BTW, believe it or not; this afternoon I was reading: The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi: A Visual Journey. It's a totally awesome book which I reviewed on Amazon.com a few years back. I think I'll be hanging out with that book the next few days. Thank you very much for all your trouble and support and kindness. - Clifford Shack<cliff_shack Realization <Realization > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 5:32 PM Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self Yup. That's a biggy. Ramana's Maha Yoga, I've read, is considered an advanced form of teaching. You don't hear Ramana recommend Mantras to people. But if you have trouble stopping thought then a mantra will help you develop single-mindedness.Another method is just to abide in the pure consciousness that you discovered when you dissoled the " I " thought. Try and be thoughtless for as long as you can. Eventually, perhaps, you may develop a semblance of mastery over that loose cannon called " Mind " . Yup Some forms of mind-control can be helpful. I can also recommend devotional chanting. Ever heard of Krishna Das. His chant Jaya Bhagavan is awesome especially when looking at pictures and teachings of Ramana. I highly recommend listening to Jaya Bhagavan while reading The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi: A Visual Journey. I'm sure you have that one. You can download Jaya Bhagavan, of course, off of iTunes for 99 cents. Life is beautiful! Realization <Realization%40>, " orva schrock " <otsclu wrote: > > not very. is that the trick? > - > Cliff Shack<cliff_shack > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion <Realization%40>> > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:28 PM > Re: Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self > > > how long can you go without thinking a thought? > > orva schrock <otsclu<otsclu> wrote: maybe I'm amazed...Ramana said many times, " seek the source of the ego and it will disappear. " > Could it be my surrender to Bhagavan is working this quickly? > Next you're gonna tell me we're all one? And nothing ever happened? Well, its sounding better all the time. I just don't want to make myself puke by pretending something because it sounds cool.... > I surrender, strike down my mind!!! oops, Ramana pointed out that the mind is just a bundle of thoughts... > Not much there to be struck down then. If the ego is just a thought, I guess its been struck down too. > Nothing left but consciousness. Which is one. Not two. > So we're all IT? And that's that? > Now what are " my " chances of remembering this? > [i'm glad you apparently have time to goof off like I do. It plays.] > - > Clifford Shack<cliff_shack<cliff_shack% 40>> > To: Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion% 40><Realization <Realization%40\ groups.com><Realizati on%40>> > Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:06 PM > Re: Ramana's Complicated Advice On Realizing the Self > > " Past " is a thought. " Present " is a thought. " Future " is a thought. > Thoughts arise from the thinker. The thinker is the ego. The ego is > the thought " I " which, if sought, automatically vanishes. > > --- In Realization <Realization%40><Realiza\ tion% 40><Realization <Realization%40\ groups.com><Realizati on%40>>, rhyndrati oentara > <oentaraningsih@> wrote: > > > > Because the experience of non duality is the same, words maybe > different.Christ is a state of conciousness..There were Jesus Christ, > Raman Maharshi in the past, there are Christ in the present and will > be more Christ in the future.. > > > > Ramon Leonato <raman@> wrote: > > > > On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > > > > > What can be easier than that? > > > > > > - Ramana Maharshi > > > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > > > > > It is in the Bible{ > > > > Be still and know that I am > > > > Raman > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2008 Report Share Posted January 8, 2008 May I add that the hebrew word " Harpoo " which was translated as " Be Still " can actualy means " Relax " , " let go " or " Desist " depends on the context . So " Be still and know that I am God " can also be translated from hebrew as: relax and know that I am God. Yarden Realization , Cliff Shack <cliff_shack wrote: > > I came across that a few weeks ago on the " Christ in the Desert " monastery website while I was exploring Georgia O'Keefe and her New Mexico... so I looked into it. Apparently " Be Still " is not the literal translation of the Hebrew word " Harpoo " . Those that are familiar with Hebrew translate the word into English as " Desist " . " Desist " is also a good word for our needs. As you can probably tell...I'm a delver by nature. > > http://wlcv.hebrewtanakh.com/psalms/46.htm > > Cliff > > Ramon Leonato <raman wrote: > > > On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > > > What can be easier than that? > > > > - Ramana Maharshi > > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > > > It is in the Bible{ > > Be still and know that I am > > Raman > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2008 Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Thanks for that, Yarden, I like this much better than the traditional and even more than 'desist' it comes close to describing a stopping that is a non-action. Tanya Realization , " yarden12000 " <garden1 wrote: > > May I add that the hebrew word " Harpoo " which was translated as " Be > Still " can actualy means " Relax " , " let go " or " Desist " depends on the > context . > So " Be still and know that I am God " can also be translated from > hebrew as: relax and know that I am God. > Yarden > > > Realization , Cliff Shack <cliff_shack@> > wrote: > > > > I came across that a few weeks ago on the " Christ in the Desert " > monastery website while I was exploring Georgia O'Keefe and her New > Mexico... so I looked into it. Apparently " Be Still " is not the > literal translation of the Hebrew word " Harpoo " . Those that are > familiar with Hebrew translate the word into English > as " Desist " . " Desist " is also a good word for our needs. As you can > probably tell...I'm a delver by nature. > > > > http://wlcv.hebrewtanakh.com/psalms/46.htm > > > > Cliff > > > > Ramon Leonato <raman@> wrote: > > > > > > On 1/1/08 6:22 PM, " Clifford Shack " <cliff_shack@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All that is required to realize the Self is to Be Still. > > > > > > What can be easier than that? > > > > > > - Ramana Maharshi > > > From The Essential Teachings of Ramana Maharshi:A Visual Journey > > > > > It is in the Bible{ > > > > Be still and know that I am > > > > Raman > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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