Reply to various statements made by members of the group

[Guest guest]

1. Reply to Hur Guler 13 Jan 2001

 

" Now who is to make the progress, and progress towards what?

You are the conscious presence, the animanting consciousness

which gives sentinence (awareness) to phenomenal objects.

You are not a phenomenal object, which is merely an appearance

in the consciousness of those who perceive it. How can an

appearance make any progress towards any objective? "

 

It is the jiva who desires to make progress. The jiva is

dissatisfied with himself, and is profoundly uncomfortable

being a limited being. The jiva is in search of his Self.

The Way is presented to the jiva, and in the conceptual vision

the jiva sees in the distance the unmanifested perfect self

which he has always desired to be. To become that self all

that is necessary is for the jiva to manifest the unmanifest

perfect self, something that is certain to occur because it

has already occurred, the future has already been. The jiva

is aware that he is unreal, and progress along the Way

appears to be towards the real, towards the Truth, but never

reaching the Truth which is beyond the range of the faculties

available to the jiva. The jiva lives in the unreal, the

Truth is the real, here and now, which is incomprehensible

to the jiva.

 

The sleight that is being played upon the jiva is to dangle

the unmanifest perfect self at the fulfillment of the Way as

though it is the Self. It is merely a magnificent carrot

held in front of the jiva in order to get him to move, much

as donkeys are similarly persuaded to move. Magnificent forms

of the Self are merely forms, and if the jiva were ever to

attain the Mahat or even the unmanifest perfect self, he

would discover that he had not reached the real Self. The

Self has no form, and is not an unmanifest perfect form, nor

a magnificent being.

 

If the Witness is present, it is aware that the jiva is thus

deluded, is the subject to playful phenomena, and that the

sense of " I " is identified with the jiva. Can the Witness

ever be aware that the Self is responsible for the consciousness

that animates phenomenal objects? And gives them sentience,

the feeling of being aware? Can the Witness know the Self?

If the Witness were to turn around, look behind, would he

see the Self? Probably he would only see the source of all

phenomena obscured in a form of darkness? Does the Self

lie hidden in that darkness?

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[Guest guest]

perhaps it is a dream, here is something..

 

bindu.

 

The dream begins: There is a split seed thought hurled into infinity

by the potency of non-existence

Emptiness having the quality of potential-to-be - consciousness awoke.

 

Sentience written on conception division occurred

Manifestation of an attempt at definition of consciousness-Self arose

Thingness, thisness and that sprang forth.

 

That Absolute answered such as that manifestation

And infinite diverse Universes flash out of that Now.

Pulse on pulse of Spanda-Shakti extends now the dreaming.

 

A vast ocean of volatility erupts instantaneously Now

Ignited by reflection at the speed of light

So that manifestations speed exceeds that of perception.

 

Mind therefore is left dumb - ignorant of realization

By the utter violence of the destruction of the universe

Which existed but a moment ago- now gone utterly.

 

Lost in destruction, lost in this dream -

And the dream which continues in sleep and death.

A waking dream, a sleeping dream from which no one awakes.

 

Then a child is born -

a new dream begins amoung the eternal infinite

yet that dreaming one has not newly arisen.

Such as that is merely a far removed reflection

Both in action and experience -

Sleeping and dreaming too; the dream continues:

 

Each and every evening sleeping

Each morning arising - dreaming in sleep.

While in dream-sleep moving from one scene to the next

Sometimes remembering the dream had in the night on waking

Sometimes not.

 

Hardly ever knowing he is dreaming while he dreams -

Less still, knowing on waking that the dream scene has merely changed

again

And sleeping again changing yet again, as in dream. Time begins.

 

Then one evening dying in a dream - waking with a start

And knowing he did not die in that dream at all.

He falls asleep again unknowing that when he awoke the dream did not

end.

 

For years months, weeks, days, hours, minutes and seconds

Measured by cosmic dream events -

Of an earth in a solar system orbiting a star in a dream universe

He does not realize he is dreaming.

 

Sleeping, eating, growing, living and finally dying

Never does he realize the truth -

Remaining ignorant he dies and the dream continues as Time

Looking at his watch and remembering that he dreamed last night.

 

Who is not ignorant of the one who knows the dream as he dreams

Or the one who now looks at the watch from nowhere at all.

The watch, the arm, the eyes, all seen by that one.

 

Knowing both the sleeping dream and the waking to be the same dream

One wakes up, yet that one waking is not a dream -

Not anything projected on the consciousness

Or as a thing in the likeness of the Absolute.

 

It is that out of which both dreams arise -

Therefore conscious beyond deep sleep too.

Knowing the Self Absolute, while all else

is nothing but the mirror of its consciousness;

giving it the experience of its own infinity - beyond time.

 

Now the dream ends, the dreamer is no more locked in the dream.

That Absolute observes life as a dream -

And dream and dreaming and deep sleep also

Of a dreamer dreaming a dream of deep sleeping.

 

Remaining awake while dreaming of being awake

While dreaming of dreaming and while dreaming of being asleep;

The same Absolute, awake as all that dreams and exists

Existing as all that exists.

 

Singularly Conscious of Absolute consciousness

Manifesting dreaming, going into dreams and falling asleep.

Looking around in the dreamscape awake beyond consciousness.

 

Countless eyes turn toward that one -

Seeking the Self eternally.

The dream within reality and the reality within the dream

Both are but reflection -

The one of the other.

 

Taking the body to bed -

Upon the arising of the dream state, consciousness does not fall

asleep

Consciousness knows the dream scene is now changed -

Again upon awaking consciousness does not wake up -

Consciousness has not slept -

The body merely recuperates in stillness.

 

Each and every moment that body, that universe

That manifestation though disappearing, reappears instantaneously.

So that in that the universe, is itself new -

Yet given attributes in retrospect of what it appeared to be before

re-absorption;

It is thus aged, sick and tired and one day dies.

 

Yet the one that has awoken knows this -

So in the briefest moment -

consciousness may renew that body or change it

healing it at will, removing both pain and illness in a moment.

 

Behold now the miracle that consciousness is dead utterly

Yet lives as is wished beyond all dreams

dream and the nightmare of existence

have come to a final end.

 

Now this awoken one - countess of face

Peering through infinite sense -

Looking within - into the world!

Hands, fingers - countless -

Numberless states - infinite awareness

Of numberless form.

 

Countless they sleep - infinite the dream -

Of this awoken one -

That one did not awake -

Yet to speak, it is " that: " - or one by reference only

Known by an awoken one.

 

Effervescence of truth - sparkling each

With rays of effect;

Effecting nothing but their dream;

Sounds, sights, feelings, colors, tastes and thoughts -

Of nothing but dreams -

Projected of Self in consciousness.

 

Such are the three states -

Waking, dream and deep sleep -

For who slept - once awake?

Then dreamed - once aware?

Who rose up from what bed

Having been dreaming - now not.

 

Countless " I am " - manifest in mind -

Unknown by one, defined by all -

Utter in variation and form -

An infinite trillion in grade -

Evolute Being-Absolute;

Thus the ever awake unsleeping.

 

Now again those dreams -

Appearing effigy-like -

Totems of Self with bright eyes

Eyes that look into dreams

Eyes that flash with light -

Or gleaming in the sun of the world.

 

Those eyes are my eyes -

No genus favoured - all

Each seeing in a way and its way - myself

There knowing " That "

Thus I begin not nor end

In any dream, dreamed by any.

 

I - the knower of dreams - of form unseen

Not known - knowing all this Selfness

As manifest - omnipresent " I " ;

What a wonder! Each a Universe

All my dream of " I-ness " .

 

The mind does not sleep -

There are dreams;

The body does not sleep -

Its heart beats - it lives;

It is the senses which sleep

Their physical apparatus tired.

 

That personality plays in the dream

Time continues in which that one exists

As self-forgetting-me;

One like a flower-bud lies dormant

Un-open dreaming of Self.

 

I am the one who has disappeared

What will you tell me now -

More - upon finding me

Who will you say I am?

 

Having found me, you too have disappeared

Who will say who I am?

Unknown by the unknown -

Where can I be refuted or described

As not existing by who?

 

Where and when is the world hidden

in myself when I have disappeared -

that world is not myself

but is the effect of me.

 

I the non-existent one

Transcend that world -

which comes into being within my non-existence;

I - the one full of space.

 

That trillion Cosmos -

Those infinite effects - flash

Reflections they are of effect of the one who has disappeared.

Like countless flames!

 

Flames burn up the emptiness of non-existence

Yet they are effects of that which they burn -

Such is the infinite eternal non-existent.

 

I - the never born - seen by none

Known only of myself -

Enliven the rays of existence

Which flash forth as the effect of me.

 

Such knowing as that dissolves the very Cosmos.

Within that consciousness there is neither night nor day

Those days are effected - projected into existence

By the light of stars.

 

Stars, light, fire light, sun light -

The light of the presence of this or that

Very perception of light - lit up!

Only by the non-existent omnipotent one

who has disappeared.

 

All that - all this - the very Cosmos entire

Exists by reference to me;

That which moves - those waves -

Countless all - exist.

 

But the raindrops exist not -

If I - the one who has disappeared

had not consciousness;

neither the flames - nor the waves

nor color, nor light- but for I.

 

So then - all this then -

Time extends and the aeons pass

Because they are the effect of my non-exiistence

There is thus the Cosmos & countless being-incarnate.

 

Omnipresent in that or this lies non-existence.

Un-transcended on the shoulders of space rides time

That gargoyle of death!

 

I - the non-existent one

Fill that void with not I

And dreams arise

As does the Cosmos

Because of not I.

 

Dreams of Self - dreams of form

Dreams of being - dreams of men

But dream itself - what is that?

And what is the universe -

Which seems real.

 

Dream is nothing but time

It is change - it is impermanence;

Dream is the not real.

Just as the dream ends and changes

So does death come - along with decay

And change & time moves on!

 

Trying to express, trying to become,

I - the Non-existent One who has disappeared;

That Cosmos exists because of that- because of me.

 

So then they that would realize me

Release that Cosmos they too disappear -

They become Not - existing before existence -

Becoming after existence-

I - The One Who Has Disappeared!

 

That God, that distilled Nada

Swallows up all this!

That Time disappears there

Such that neither duration - nor length - nor breadth

Sans-dimension - I Exist!

 

I the bird of truth - beyond existence

Rip out the guts of that Gargoyle Time -

Devouring Maya's Creation

Her being no more Is!

 

That mind though continues there -

In that dream creating dimension;

That which I once was -

Extended once by will now retracted

Resides now unmanifest there.

 

Remaining nothing non-different

That potent Will unmanifest

I have become the effect of nothing

Unaffected Will, unknown by effect in dimension.

 

These, those, that I stand as the support of dimension

But beyond that I appear not;

I of form unknown -

A single Om unending -

Or a hand - the sky

Or perhaps that flower.

 

A sacred Nada rising

The rays of that sun expanding

A metamorphosis of sound

Reflecting notes of Being clashing

Mutating the form of the formless

A single syllable, matrka there birthing

The root of the world.

 

The boddhi tree springs up!

Builder of hierarchy arising

That shining of nothing nurtured

Such is the birth of knowing;

A chip from the block - torn off!

My virgin nothing disappears from view.

 

Uncomprehending no-One there

I am full of eternal infinity

Known now - not then

Residing in absolute -

Neither is there Samadhi.

 

Who is there? - Not I!

I Samadhi - I....! Don't know.

Samadhi-eternal resides in me.