Guest guest Posted January 29, 2001 Report Share Posted January 29, 2001 Reposted from http://advaita.org/ Nisargadatta Maharaj I AM THAT dialog Maharaj ....realization is explosive. It takes place spontaneously, or at the slightest hint. The quick is not better than the slow. Slow ripening and rapid flowering alternate. Both are natural and right. Yet, all this is so in the mind only. As I see it, there is really nothing of the kind. In the great mirror of consciousness images arise and disappear and only memory gives them continuity. And memory is material -- destructible, perishable, transient. On such flimsy foundations we build a sense of personal existence -- vague, intermittent, dreamlike. This vague persuasion: 'I-am-so-and-so' obscures the changeless state of pure awareness and makes us believe that we are born to suffer and to die. Seeker I was told that a realized person will never do anything unseemly. That they will behave in an exemplary way. Maharaj Who sets the example? Why should a liberated one necessarily follow conventions? The moment one becomes predictable, one cannot be free. Ones freedom lies in being free to fulfill the need of the moment, to obey the necessity of the situation. Freedom to do what one likes is really bondage, while being free to do what one must, what is right, is real freedom. Seeker What about cause and effect? Maharaj Each moment contains the whole of the past and creates the whole of the future. Seeker But past and future exist? Maharaj In the mind only. Time is in the mind, space is in the mind. The law of cause and effect is also a way of thinking. In reality all is here and now and all is one. Multiplicity and diversity are in the mind only. Seeker A message in print may be paper and ink only. It is the text that matters. By analysing the world into elements and qualities we miss the most important -- its meaning. Your reduction of everything to dream disregards the difference between the dream of an insect and the dream of a poet. All is dream, granted. But not all are equal. Maharaj The dreams are not equal, but the dreamer is one. I am the insect. I am the poet -- in dream. But in reality I am neither. I am beyond all dreams. I am light in which all dreams appear and disappear. I am both inside and outside the dream. Just as a man having a headache knows the ache and also knows that he is not the ache, so do I know the dream, myself dreaming and myself not dreaming -- all at the same time. I am what I am before, during and after the dream. But what I see in dream, I am not. " Seeker If both dream and escape from dream are imaginings, what is the way out? Maharaj There is no need of a way out! Don't you see that a way out is also part of the dream? All you have to do is to see the dream as dream. Seeker If I start the practice of dismissing everything as a dream, where will it lead me? Maharaj Wherever it leads you, it will be a dream. The very idea of going beyond the dream is illusory. Why go anywhere? Just realize that you are dreaming a dream you call the world, and stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your problem. Your problem is that you like one part of the dream and not another. When you have seen the dream as a dream, you have done all that needs be done. Nisargadatta Maharaj " I am That " The Acorn Press P.S. You can order Nisargatta Maharaj's 'I AM THAT' from Advaita Press Store at http://advaita.org and other bookstores online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2001 Report Share Posted January 29, 2001 Very beautiful. Thanks for posting it. An invitation to " see/be " as you actually are, as " this " actually is. No need to escape or evade anything. -- Dan >Reposted from http://advaita.org/ > >Nisargadatta Maharaj >I AM THAT >dialog > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2001 Report Share Posted January 30, 2001 Nisargadatta, " Hur Guler " <Hur1@a...> wrote: > Reposted from http://advaita.org/ > > Nisargadatta Maharaj > I AM THAT > dialog > > > Maharaj > > ...realization is explosive. It takes place spontaneously, It Appears to Take Place Spontaneously...I Believe Life is a Process that Creates the Appearance of Spontaneity but It is Not Spontaneous...It appears to Be Spontaneous because I'm Always Unconscious of what's in the Background even though It's there so from that I Conclude that It's My Lack of Knowledge of What's going to Appear Next in My Awareness that Creates the False Notion of this Relization I'm Experiencing Now is taking Place Spontaneously...! or at the > slightest hint. The quick is not better than the slow. Slow ripening > and rapid flowering alternate. Both are natural and right. Yet, all > this is so in the mind only. As I see it, there is really nothing of > the kind. In the great mirror of consciousness images arise and > disappear and only memory gives them continuity. And memory is > material -- destructible, perishable, transient. On such flimsy > foundations we build a sense of personal existence -- vague, > intermittent, dreamlike. This vague persuasion: 'I-am-so-and-so' > obscures the changeless state of pure awareness and makes us believe > that we are born to suffer and to die. > > Seeker > > I was told that a realized person will never do anything unseemly. > That they will behave in an exemplary way. > > Maharaj > > Who sets the example? Why should a liberated one necessarily follow > conventions? The moment one becomes predictable, one cannot be free. > Ones freedom lies in being free to fulfill the need of the moment, to > obey the necessity of the situation. Freedom to do what one likes is > really bondage, while being free to do what one must, what is right, > is real freedom. Doing what is Right is Also a Form of Bondage...this Notion of Doing what is Right Presupposes that One can Do Something Other than what Life Allows One to Do...! > Seeker > > What about cause and effect? > > Maharaj > > Each moment contains the whole of the past and creates the whole of > the future. This is Incorrect Thinking...From the Micro View...One could Say... " Each Moment Contains the Whole of the Past...! " ...what is this Whole of the Past the Maharaj speaks of Other than His Own View which is a Fragment of the Whole...! > Seeker > > But past and future exist? > > Maharaj > > In the mind only. Time is in the mind, space is in the mind. The law > of cause and effect is also a way of thinking. In reality all is here > and now and all is one. Multiplicity and diversity are in the mind > only. > > Seeker I Agree with this...this is Excellent...! > A message in print may be paper and ink only. It is the text that > matters. By analysing the world into elements and qualities we miss > the most important -- its meaning. Your reduction of everything to > dream disregards the difference between the dream of an insect and > the dream of a poet. All is dream, granted. But not all are equal. > > Maharaj > > The dreams are not equal, but the dreamer is one. I am the insect. I > am the poet -- in dream. But in reality I am neither. I am beyond all > dreams. I am light in which all dreams appear and disappear. I am > both inside and outside the dream. Just as a man having a headache > knows the ache and also knows that he is not the ache, so do I know > the dream, myself dreaming and myself not dreaming -- all at the same > time. I am what I am before, during and after the dream. But what I > see in dream, I am not. " It Sounds Like Here the Maharaj is Dreaming about the Dream...He may Be these things He's Dreaming About in the Dream but I Am Not this...! > Seeker > > If both dream and escape from dream are imaginings, what is the way > out? > > Maharaj > > There is no need of a way out! Don't you see that a way out is also > part of the dream? All you have to do is to see the dream as dream. This is a Very Good Answer from the Maharaj...the Prankster at Play...!...In other Words...instead of the Maharaj Just Saying to the Seeker... " I don't Know the Way Out...! " ...he Has to Come Up with a Conclusion that is False...this Reminds Me of Freud Saying all One has to Do to Stop the Unconscious Mind from Creating this Suffering One is Going thru is to Find Out thru Free Association what Caused the Matter in the First Place and then the Suffering will Just Disappear on Its Own just Because You Know what Caused It...Of Course We Now Know this Is Not True...! > Seeker > > If I start the practice of dismissing everything as a dream, where > will it lead me? > > Maharaj > > Wherever it leads you, it will be a dream. The very idea of going > beyond the dream is illusory. Why go anywhere? Just realize that you > are dreaming a dream you call the world, and stop looking for ways > out. The dream is not your problem. Your problem is that you like one > part of the dream and not another. When you have seen the dream as a > dream, you have done all that needs be done. When You See the Dream as a Dream You have Done All that Needs to Be Done and Now You're in a New Place where You realize You Wasted alot of Your Precious Time Trying to Do Something that Was not Possible to Begin with...and what was IT that You Believed was Possible that was Not Possible...?...That You could Be Something Other than What You are...! > Nisargadatta Maharaj > " I am That " > The Acorn Press > > P.S. You can order Nisargatta Maharaj's 'I AM THAT' from Advaita > Press Store at http://advaita.org and other bookstores online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2001 Report Share Posted February 1, 2001 Nisargadatta, dswgos@h... wrote: > Nisargadatta, " Hur Guler " <Hur1@a...> wrote: > > Maharaj: ...realization is explosive. It takes place spontaneously, > > It Appears to Take Place Spontaneously...I Believe Life is a Process > that Creates the Appearance of Spontaneity but It is Not > Spontaneous...It appears to Be Spontaneous because I'm Always > Unconscious of what's in the Background even though It's there so > from that I Conclude that It's My Lack of Knowledge of What's going > to Appear Next in My Awareness that Creates the False Notion of this > Relization I'm Experiencing Now is taking Place Spontaneously...! Dear David, I'd like to post the parapraph in question before addressing your point. " ...realization is explosive. It takes place spontaneously, or at the slightest hint. The quick is not better than the slow. Slow ripening and rapid flowering alternate. Both are natural and right. Yet, all this is so in the mind only. As I see it, there is really nothing of the kind. In the great mirror of consciousness images arise and disappear and only memory gives them continuity. And memory is material -- destructible, perishable, transient. On such flimsy foundations we build a sense of personal existence -- vague, intermittent, dreamlike. This vague persuasion: 'I-am-so-and-so' obscures the changeless state of pure awareness and makes us believe that we are born to suffer and to die. " -Nisargadatta According to Webster.com " SPONTANEOUS implies lack of prompting and connotes naturalness. " Whether realization is spontaneous or a process (both of which may be the same depending on one's definition or model), I believe the essence of Maharaj's teaching is not how realization takes place but what that realization points to. Although Maharaj explains how the memory or the sense of time gives continuity to the " frames " of memory, by arranging them in sequential order, not unlike a movie camera, out of which emerges the " actor " and the plot of the " play, " Maharaj's " mystical " insight is not how one's model of reality plays in consciousness but how there is a changeless state of pure awareness. In the changeless state of pure awareness, the mind, body, the world, physical laws and even the spiritual states all appear and disappear. Ultimately *you* are not a thing, not even a state of mind but the pure awareness. Whether one calls pure awareness the spirit, eternal reality or God, the consciousness is the only link to That. As one actor speaking to another actor in the play of consciousness, can I make you realize this? I don't think that is always a part of the programming or the process as you call it. But as consciousness speaking to consciousness, contemplation of consciousnes on consciousness needs no explanation. Ultimately this is the triump of Maharaj's teaching, as he always points us to the sense of " I am. " As Maharaj says, the sense of " I am " is the only capital we are born with. Hur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2001 Report Share Posted February 19, 2001 On 1-2-01 Hur Guler wrote: "As one actor speaking to another actor in the play of consciousness, can I make you realize this?" Dear Hur, Why do consider yourself to be an actor? In a theatre there are many levels: There is the scenery, the physical props, there are the parts, ie the persons in the play, then there are the actors playing the parts, there is also the audience, and the casting director, various prompters, the producer. Usually there is also an unknown owner. Some say the object of the theatre is to entertain, others say the real object is to make money, ie a living? Hur, Why do you identify with the actor? An actor is merely a profession, and is not a real being? Consider the possibility that all these levels in a theatre are one and the same being? Can then one ask the question why does one being appear as many interrelating levels? Is it entertainment or something more vital? I confess I do not know. I know only this: I am the part, not at the level of the actor. The actor is the little known spiritual being standing behind me the part, behind my limited self form, and smiling sweetly at me. The Theatre...the mind The scenery...the world The props...the physical body The part...the person or natural body, jiva The actor...the spiritual body, Mahat The audience...the witness, Atman The casting director...Ahamkara The prompters...the gunas The producer...God, Brahman The owner...The Absolute Entertainment is for the audience chiefly, ie the witness. A living, wealth, Life, is the activity of prana. What has one left out? There must be something one has forgotten? John - Hur Guler Nisargadatta Thursday, February 01, 2001 11:41 PM Re: Who sets the example? Nisargadatta, dswgos@h... wrote:> Nisargadatta, "Hur Guler" <Hur1@a...> wrote:> > Maharaj: ...realization is explosive. It takes place spontaneously,> > It Appears to Take Place Spontaneously...I Believe Life is a Process > that Creates the Appearance of Spontaneity but It is Not > Spontaneous...It appears to Be Spontaneous because I'm Always > Unconscious of what's in the Background even though It's there so > from that I Conclude that It's My Lack of Knowledge of What's going > to Appear Next in My Awareness that Creates the False Notion of this > Relization I'm Experiencing Now is taking Place Spontaneously...!Dear David, I'd like to post the parapraph in question before addressing your point."...realization is explosive. It takes place spontaneously, or at the slightest hint. The quick is not better than the slow. Slow ripening and rapid flowering alternate. Both are natural and right. Yet, all this is so in the mind only. As I see it, there is really nothing of the kind. In the great mirror of consciousness images arise and disappear and only memory gives them continuity. And memory is material -- destructible, perishable, transient. On such flimsy foundations we build a sense of personal existence -- vague, intermittent, dreamlike. This vague persuasion: 'I-am-so-and-so' obscures the changeless state of pure awareness and makes us believe that we are born to suffer and to die." -NisargadattaAccording to Webster.com "SPONTANEOUS implies lack of prompting and connotes naturalness." Whether realization is spontaneous or a process (both of which may be the same depending on one's definition or model), I believe the essence of Maharaj's teaching is not how realization takes place but what that realization points to. Although Maharaj explains how the memory or the sense of time gives continuity to the "frames" of memory, by arranging them in sequential order, not unlike a movie camera, out of which emerges the "actor" and the plot of the "play," Maharaj's "mystical" insight is not how one's model of reality plays in consciousness but how there is a changeless state of pure awareness. In the changeless state of pure awareness, the mind, body, the world, physical laws and even the spiritual states all appear and disappear. Ultimately *you* are not a thing, not even a state of mind but the pure awareness. Whether one calls pure awareness the spirit, eternal reality or God, the consciousness is the only link to That.As one actor speaking to another actor in the play of consciousness, can I make you realize this? I don't think that is always a part of the programming or the process as you call it. But as consciousness speaking to consciousness, contemplation of consciousnes on consciousness needs no explanation. Ultimately this is the triump of Maharaj's teaching, as he always points us to the sense of "I am." As Maharaj says, the sense of "I am" is the only capital we are born with. Hur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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