One total Picture

[Guest guest]

Further from :

The Elegant Universe, by Brian Greene in Frontier Perspectives from the Center for Frontier Sciences

 

------------------

 

The graviton, the smallest bundle of gravitational force, is one particular pattern of string vibration. And just as an electromagnetic field such as visible light is composed of an enormous number of photons, a gravitational field is composed of an enormous number of gravitons - that is, an enormous number of strings executing the graviton vibrational pattern. Gravitational fields, in turn, are encoded in the warping of the spacetime fabric, and hence we are led to identify the fabric of spacetime itself with a colossal number of strings all undergoing the same, orderly, graviton pattern of vibration. In the language of the field, such an enormous, organized array of similarly vibrating strings is known as 'coherent state' of strings. It's a rather poetic image - the strings of string theory as the threads of the spacetime fabric - but we should note that it's rigorous meaning has yet to be worked out completely. Nevertheless, describing the spacetime fabric in this sting-stitched form does lead us to contemplate the following question. An ordinary piece of fabric is the end product of someone having carefully woven together individual threads, the raw material of common textiles. Similarly, we can ask ourselves whether there is a raw precursor to the fabric of spacetime. -------------- S: Indeed. As I keep asking, at the Big Bang, what exploded, or who banged whom?<g> ------------- Notice that it is somewhat inaccurate to picture this state as a jumbled mass of individual vibrating strings that have yet to stitch themselves together into an ordered whole because, in our usual way of thinking, this presupposes a notion of both space and time - the space in which a string vibrates and the progression of time that allows us to follow its changes in shape from one moment to the next. ------------------ S: Indeed. Space, time are conceptual constructs needed to cognise manifestation and hence simultaneoulsy appear to be, along with phenomenality.There is no aprior space-time construct in which something came to be manifested. The dance is a dance, because a dancer is dancing.The dancer is a dancer, because a dance is unfolding. Since, time as a concept appears to come to be so that "duration" comes to be and hence phenomenality can be cognised through "change", what is before "time", is still a question framed within the concept of "time". Hence the question itself is meaningless and if the illusion of "time" is apperceived, what can be said, whether anything is happening, has happened, OR that nothing has happened. -------------------- But in the raw state, before the strings that make up the cosmic fabric engage in the orderly, coherent vibrational dance we are discussing, there is *no realization of space or time*. Even our language is too coarse to handle these ideas, for, in fact, there is even no notion of *before*. -------------------- S: Exactly what I am saying. The whole connotation of "before" is meaningless. Thus "after" is as much meaningless. ------------------ In a sense, it's as if individual strings are "shards" of space and time, and only when they appropriately undergo sympathetic vibrations do the conventional notions of space and time emerge. ------------------ S: To persistent questioning by amateur seekers, the Master coins a term Consciousness-at-rest, Consciousness-in-repose, Awareness-not- aware- of itself, Noumenon, "That" . And further states that phenomenality, Consciousness-in-movement, is the dream of "That", arising, when the notion of "I AM (the Big Bang) arises in "That". Sweet lollies, to assuage the seeker, the Master knowing, that all prattlings, by anybody (including himself/herself), at anytime, to anybody, ever, can only be a concept. Within the conceptual framework of phenomenality, in which the Master-disciple dialogue (relationship) is unfolding, what else can get created, but concepts. Some concepts dig deep, like a thorn, some only superficially scratch the surface..

Daaaa Daaaa Deee Duuuum

Cheers

Sandeep

[Guest guest]

One Total Picture

 

 

See if you get this attachment Daniel?

 

Steve

[Guest guest]

Dear Sandeep

A question posed by my cousin John Ward comes to mind when I read your message.

Is time before the moment now infinite? If this is so! how were we able to arrive at this moment now?

The logic of this seems to be that there is only the moment now the rest is just conceptual.

 

love peter

 

-

Sandeep Chatterjee

Nisargadatta

Friday, February 09, 2001 4:32 PM

One total Picture

 

 

Further from :

The Elegant Universe, by Brian Greene in Frontier Perspectives from the Center for Frontier Sciences

 

------------------

 

The graviton, the smallest bundle of gravitational force, is one particular pattern of string vibration. And just as an electromagnetic field such as visible light is composed of an enormous number of photons, a gravitational field is composed of an enormous number of gravitons - that is, an enormous number of strings executing the graviton vibrational pattern. Gravitational fields, in turn, are encoded in the warping of the spacetime fabric, and hence we are led to identify the fabric of spacetime itself with a colossal number of strings all undergoing the same, orderly, graviton pattern of vibration. In the language of the field, such an enormous, organized array of similarly vibrating strings is known as 'coherent state' of strings. It's a rather poetic image - the strings of string theory as the threads of the spacetime fabric - but we should note that it's rigorous meaning has yet to be worked out completely. Nevertheless, describing the spacetime fabric in this sting-stitched form does lead us to contemplate the following question. An ordinary piece of fabric is the end product of someone having carefully woven together individual threads, the raw material of common textiles. Similarly, we can ask ourselves whether there is a raw precursor to the fabric of spacetime. -------------- S: Indeed. As I keep asking, at the Big Bang, what exploded, or who banged whom?<g> ------------- Notice that it is somewhat inaccurate to picture this state as a jumbled mass of individual vibrating strings that have yet to stitch themselves together into an ordered whole because, in our usual way of thinking, this presupposes a notion of both space and time - the space in which a string vibrates and the progression of time that allows us to follow its changes in shape from one moment to the next. ------------------ S: Indeed. Space, time are conceptual constructs needed to cognise manifestation and hence simultaneoulsy appear to be, along with phenomenality.There is no aprior space-time construct in which something came to be manifested. The dance is a dance, because a dancer is dancing.The dancer is a dancer, because a dance is unfolding. Since, time as a concept appears to come to be so that "duration" comes to be and hence phenomenality can be cognised through "change", what is before "time", is still a question framed within the concept of "time". Hence the question itself is meaningless and if the illusion of "time" is apperceived, what can be said, whether anything is happening, has happened, OR that nothing has happened. -------------------- But in the raw state, before the strings that make up the cosmic fabric engage in the orderly, coherent vibrational dance we are discussing, there is *no realization of space or time*. Even our language is too coarse to handle these ideas, for, in fact, there is even no notion of *before*. -------------------- S: Exactly what I am saying. The whole connotation of "before" is meaningless. Thus "after" is as much meaningless. ------------------ In a sense, it's as if individual strings are "shards" of space and time, and only when they appropriately undergo sympathetic vibrations do the conventional notions of space and time emerge. ------------------ S: To persistent questioning by amateur seekers, the Master coins a term Consciousness-at-rest, Consciousness-in-repose, Awareness-not- aware- of itself, Noumenon, "That" . And further states that phenomenality, Consciousness-in-movement, is the dream of "That", arising, when the notion of "I AM (the Big Bang) arises in "That". Sweet lollies, to assuage the seeker, the Master knowing, that all prattlings, by anybody (including himself/herself), at anytime, to anybody, ever, can only be a concept. Within the conceptual framework of phenomenality, in which the Master-disciple dialogue (relationship) is unfolding, what else can get created, but concepts. Some concepts dig deep, like a thorn, some only superficially scratch the surface..

Daaaa Daaaa Deee Duuuum

Cheers

Sandeep

[Guest guest]

Hiya Peter,

 

-

Peter Whale

Nisargadatta

Saturday, February 10, 2001 03:30 PM

Re: One total Picture

 

Dear Sandeep

A question posed by my cousin John Ward comes to mind when I read your message.

Is time before the moment now infinite? If this is so! how were we able to arrive at this moment now?

 

 

S:

There is no time before or after.

There is only the now.

However apparently, we have a yesterday, and a tomorrow.

 

Just today, I was prattling else where on the same issue...

----------------------------

 

Let's go back to QM (Quantum Mechanics)QuoteWhen we are dealing with waves, we have a different rule. The superpositionprinciple is one that is obeyed by all waves in material media providedtheir amplitudes are not too great, and is rigorously obeyed by allelectromagnetic waves and quantum waves. It says that the net wave amplitudeor height at any point in space is equal to the algebraic sum of the heightsof all of the contributing waves.UnquoteWhat this points to is that any single thought (and the action which may ormay not result thereof), which "occurs" is the culmination of all thoughtsever taken, by any biological computer, ever since phenomenon apparentlycame to be.Hence is it the mosaic which thinks or does, not the individual entity whichbelieves it his or her thought or his or her action?Further from the conclusion from Science of wave function with infinitepossibilities and "thought" is nothing but a "collapse" of one of thepossibility into a body-mind complex, can the cause and effect, both besimultaneously existing and not as sequential events in time?That the total picture allready IS?So why is it that the apparatus of the "biological computer", this dreamedcharacter which is all that we are, has a sense of "time", with a past thathappened before, a present happening now and a future that will happen intime different to the before and the now?A very apt symbology is given by Ramesh.Imagine a painting 10 miles high and 20 miles long.The total painting allready IS, but we can only see it frame to frame asmuch as our vision allows.And hence travelling from frame to frame purely because of the limitation ofour vision, a sense of time is born.But this sense of time is purely conceptual arising out of the veryarchitecture of the design of the biological computer.

 

Hence phenomenality needs the two conceptual constructs of space and time, in order to be cognised.

However it is not that space and time existed and something manifested in that continuum.

The conceptual arising of phenomenon, is the simultaneous arising of the space-time construct.

Each lend to the other, it's apparent existence.

As soon as a "metanoesis" occurs in some biological computer, which can onlybe acausal and non-volitional, and which we popularly call "awakening" or"enlightenment", the limitation is no more, the previous gestalt is no more,the two contextual constructs of time and space are no more.For a sage or a Master, the whole picture is appercieved instantenously.Now if cause and effect are not separate in the sense of occurrences intime, then what becoming is possible?Today I am miserable seeker, and doing the practice of meditation, breathingtechniques, or whatever, in order that I will become an enlightened sage.What becoming is possible in the context of non-volitionality, in thecontext that cause and effect are both simultaneosuly existing, in the context that the whole Picture all ready IS?The total picture all ready IS.

-----------------------

 

 

The logic of this seems to be that there is only the moment now the rest is just conceptual.

 

 

S:

Absolutely spot on, Peter.

Now if there is only the now, even saying there is only the now is an aproximation, a corruption, isn't it?

For the statement, there is only the now, has a meaning against a possibility that there can be the not-now.

 

That's why the true dudes tell the miserable seeker in front of him, to go chew some blades of grass.<LOL>

 

 

Cheers

 

Sandeep

 

 

love peter