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The Fall (Elizabeth)

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I've been popping in and out of this group for about a month now

reading the posts but never posting myself. What seems very unique

about this group is that they so often refrain from writing personal

notes and more often than not just quote one of the great teachers.

That to me shows great humility and also that real practice is

happening.

 

My name is David and I will break this tradition simply because the

Maharaj's teachings are not the only reason I come to this group. I

also come for social interaction around his teachings. Why don't we

spend some time talking about the trials in our own lives of trying

to live what Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta speak about? About a

year ago I came upon these great sages: first Ramana then

Nisargadatta. I instantly recognized their teachings as the vehicle I

had been searching for to find the truth of myself. They were direct,

they did not preach seperation from the world, they integrated their

practice with life, and they stayed away from quoting holy books and

becoming lost in traditions and rituals. I especially identified with

Nisargadatta. When I read him it is as though every word is precious.

I have tried to underline the key passages, but it seems that I could

underline the entire book (I Am That). Much of what resonates with me

about him is his cutting to the point and at the same time his gentle

and loving urging of us. I'm sure the fact that he lived so recently

also helps in his communication with me.

 

I've become pretty good at coming back to the " I am " throughout the

day. It has greatly helped my meditation periods too. They have a

stillness that was never there before. Also, I actually hunger for my

meditation sessions which is definitely new. Of course the spiritual

life goes in cycles. Recently my mind has become very caught up in

career plans. It is so interested in its thoughts that it doesn't

want to rest in the " I am. " That is why the Maharaj's words about the

fall: " accepting experiences as the truth, it gets more and more

involved... " resonated with me so much. The pleasure in thinking and

weaving a world of experiences is so great with me that I am

sometimes reluctant to step beyond it. I think this is one of my

greatest challenges. It has become very clear to me why Nisargadatta

speaks so often of earnestness and of not taking on new ventures. The

spiritual work is so easily thrown off by the mind's interests and

preoccupations. But is also flourishes so easily when there is

earnestness and focus.

 

What are your (all) experiences with this and how do you resolve this

issue?

 

David

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Nisargadatta, truthseeker@c... wrote:

> I've been popping in and out of this group for about a month now

> reading the posts but never posting myself. What seems very unique

> about this group is that they so often refrain from writing

personal

> notes and more often than not just quote one of the great teachers.

> That to me shows great humility and also that real practice is

> happening.

>

> My name is David and I will break this tradition simply because the

> Maharaj's teachings are not the only reason I come to this group. I

> also come for social interaction around his teachings. Why don't we

> spend some time talking about the trials in our own lives of

trying

> to live what Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta speak about? About a

> year ago I came upon these great sages: first Ramana then

> Nisargadatta. I instantly recognized their teachings as the vehicle

I

> had been searching for to find the truth of myself. They were

direct,

> they did not preach seperation from the world, they integrated

their

> practice with life, and they stayed away from quoting holy books

and

> becoming lost in traditions and rituals. I especially identified

with

> Nisargadatta. When I read him it is as though every word is

precious.

> I have tried to underline the key passages, but it seems that I

could

> underline the entire book (I Am That). Much of what resonates with

me

> about him is his cutting to the point and at the same time his

gentle

> and loving urging of us. I'm sure the fact that he lived so

recently

> also helps in his communication with me.

>

> I've become pretty good at coming back to the " I am " throughout the

> day. It has greatly helped my meditation periods too. They have a

> stillness that was never there before. Also, I actually hunger for

my

> meditation sessions which is definitely new. Of course the

spiritual

> life goes in cycles. Recently my mind has become very caught up in

> career plans. It is so interested in its thoughts that it doesn't

> want to rest in the " I am. " That is why the Maharaj's words about

the

> fall: " accepting experiences as the truth, it gets more and more

> involved... " resonated with me so much. The pleasure in thinking

and

> weaving a world of experiences is so great with me that I am

> sometimes reluctant to step beyond it. I think this is one of my

> greatest challenges. It has become very clear to me why

Nisargadatta

> speaks so often of earnestness and of not taking on new ventures.

The

> spiritual work is so easily thrown off by the mind's interests and

> preoccupations. But is also flourishes so easily when there is

> earnestness and focus.

>

> What are your (all) experiences with this and how do you resolve

this

> issue?

>

> David

 

 

 

Whatever experiences were happening in this field of knowingness,

the Ultimate Principle got caught up in that.

 

It accepted some experiences as itself.

 

Accepting experiences as the truth, it gets more and more involved.

Maharaj

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On 23 February 2001

David wrote:

 

Recently my mind has become very caught up in

>career plans. It is so interested in its thoughts that it doesn't

>want to rest in the " I am. " That is why the Maharaj's words about the

>fall: " accepting experiences as the truth, it gets more and more

>involved... " resonated with me so much. The pleasure in thinking and

>weaving a world of experiences is so great with me that I am

>sometimes reluctant to step beyond it.

 

In relation to what David wrote about 'experience'

I thought it may be helpful to collect together

some of the words Nisargadatta offered on

the subject of experience.

 

John.

 

 

Experience

 

You talk about your spiritual experiences just to show people, “I am

something!” You are interested in your experiential state. There are so many

experiences. Be yourself and not the experiences. Experiences are a

temporary phaze and you are giving it undue importance. It happens

naturally.

 

Everyone is concerned with these experiences from birth to death, but

no one gives any thought to that state before experiencing began. One who

has a clear understanding of this consciousness cannot attach any importance

to any experience.

 

In the state prior to beingness I alone prevail without even the

message “I Am”. There are no experiences at all. It is the non-experiential

eternal state. I alone prevail in that state, there is no otherness. For any

experience otherness is necessary.

 

I have no need of any experience.

 

Whatever is seen, heard, experienced and acquired is totally useless

and redundant, when it is realized that no one will remain but the nishkama

Parabrahman, the desireless eternal Absolute state.

 

Any experience you get is not real.

 

The eternal ever is, a non-experiential state. In the realm of

experience you cannot have the experience of truth. There can be no

experience of truth because ultimately you are That. There cannot be

experience of truth because it is prior to the beingness. No experiences are

permanent. Experiences are in the realm of consciousness, which is bound by

time.

 

Beyond the mind there is no such thing as experience. Experience is a

dual state. You cannot talk of reality as an experience. Once this is

understood, you will no longer look for being and becoming as separate and

opposite. In reality they are one and inseparable, like roots and branches

of the same tree. Both can exist only in the light of consciousness, which

again, arises in the wake of the sense “I Am”. This is the primary fact. If

you miss it, you miss all.

 

The world itself is contact.....the totality of all contacts

actualized in consciousness. The spirit touches matter and consciousness

results. Such consciousness, when tainted with memory and expectation,

becomes bondage. Pure experience does not bind. Experience caught between

desire and fear is impure and creates karma.

 

This habit of experiencing will not go until you realize that all this

domain of the five elements, and the experiences in the five elements, are

unreal. This “I Amness” is itself unreal.

 

You speak of my experience as different from your experience, because

you believe we are separate. But we are not. On a deeper level my experience

is your experience.

 

Nisargadatta: extracts from various books recording his talks.

 

 

>truthseeker

>Nisargadatta

>Nisargadatta

> The Fall (Elizabeth)

>Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:14:13 -0000

>

>I've been popping in and out of this group for about a month now

>reading the posts but never posting myself. What seems very unique

>about this group is that they so often refrain from writing personal

>notes and more often than not just quote one of the great teachers.

>That to me shows great humility and also that real practice is

>happening.

>

>My name is David and I will break this tradition simply because the

>Maharaj's teachings are not the only reason I come to this group. I

>also come for social interaction around his teachings. Why don't we

>spend some time talking about the trials in our own lives of trying

>to live what Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta speak about? About a

>year ago I came upon these great sages: first Ramana then

>Nisargadatta. I instantly recognized their teachings as the vehicle I

>had been searching for to find the truth of myself. They were direct,

>they did not preach seperation from the world, they integrated their

>practice with life, and they stayed away from quoting holy books and

>becoming lost in traditions and rituals. I especially identified with

>Nisargadatta. When I read him it is as though every word is precious.

>I have tried to underline the key passages, but it seems that I could

>underline the entire book (I Am That). Much of what resonates with me

>about him is his cutting to the point and at the same time his gentle

>and loving urging of us. I'm sure the fact that he lived so recently

>also helps in his communication with me.

>

>I've become pretty good at coming back to the " I am " throughout the

>day. It has greatly helped my meditation periods too. They have a

>stillness that was never there before. Also, I actually hunger for my

>meditation sessions which is definitely new. Of course the spiritual

>life goes in cycles. Recently my mind has become very caught up in

>career plans. It is so interested in its thoughts that it doesn't

>want to rest in the " I am. " That is why the Maharaj's words about the

>fall: " accepting experiences as the truth, it gets more and more

>involved... " resonated with me so much. The pleasure in thinking and

>weaving a world of experiences is so great with me that I am

>sometimes reluctant to step beyond it. I think this is one of my

>greatest challenges. It has become very clear to me why Nisargadatta

>speaks so often of earnestness and of not taking on new ventures. The

>spiritual work is so easily thrown off by the mind's interests and

>preoccupations. But is also flourishes so easily when there is

>earnestness and focus.

>

>What are your (all) experiences with this and how do you resolve this

>issue?

>

>David

>

 

_______________________

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Hiya David,

A somewhat old post, even though only 2 days old.

You raise some interesting questions.

 

My two bits.........

 

-

<truthseeker

<Nisargadatta >

Saturday, February 24, 2001 04:44 AM

The Fall (Elizabeth)

 

 

> I've been popping in and out of this group for about a month now

> reading the posts but never posting myself. What seems very unique

> about this group is that they so often refrain from writing personal

> notes and more often than not just quote one of the great teachers.

> That to me shows great humility and also that real practice is

> happening.

 

 

It could also be, that no movement has yet taken place in the individual

concerned.

You know, when you don't have it to flaunt, you can always fake it, by

quoting.<g>

 

 

> My name is David and I will break this tradition simply because the

> Maharaj's teachings are not the only reason I come to this group. I

> also come for social interaction around his teachings. Why don't we

> spend some time talking about the trials in our own lives of trying

> to live what Ramana Maharshi or Nisargadatta speak about?

 

 

 

Indeed, that's where the real test of apperception or mere intellectual

masturbation lies.

 

 

> About a

> year ago I came upon these great sages: first Ramana then

> Nisargadatta. I instantly recognized their teachings as the vehicle I

> had been searching for to find the truth of myself. They were direct,

> they did not preach seperation from the world, they integrated their

> practice with life, and they stayed away from quoting holy books and

> becoming lost in traditions and rituals. I especially identified with

> Nisargadatta. When I read him it is as though every word is precious.

> I have tried to underline the key passages, but it seems that I could

> underline the entire book (I Am That). Much of what resonates with me

> about him is his cutting to the point and at the same time his gentle

> and loving urging of us. I'm sure the fact that he lived so recently

> also helps in his communication with me.

 

 

Yeah that dude was a dude.

 

 

> I've become pretty good at coming back to the " I am " throughout the

> day. It has greatly helped my meditation periods too. They have a

> stillness that was never there before. Also, I actually hunger for my

> meditation sessions which is definitely new. Of course the spiritual

> life goes in cycles. Recently my mind has become very caught up in

> career plans. It is so interested in its thoughts that it doesn't

> want to rest in the " I am. "

 

 

The mind cannot rest in 'IAM " .

That is not it's nature.

It will use a new terminology it comes across viz " IAM " , play with it,

experience maybe some esoteric stuff, and then will move on to something

else, something new.

That is it's nature.

 

 

 

> That is why the Maharaj's words about the

> fall: " accepting experiences as the truth, it gets more and more

> involved... " resonated with me so much. The pleasure in thinking and

> weaving a world of experiences is so great with me that I am

> sometimes reluctant to step beyond it.

 

 

Who is " pleasuring " in thinking and weaving around experiences?

Who is experiencing these pleasurable stuff?

Who is sometimes reluctant to step beyond it?

 

 

> I think this is one of my

> greatest challenges. It has become very clear to me why Nisargadatta

> speaks so often of earnestness and of not taking on new ventures. The

> spiritual work is so easily thrown off by the mind's interests and

> preoccupations.

 

 

 

That would be true, if there is a dichotomy between so called spiritual work

and minds' interest and pre-occupations.

 

Can there be spiritualism in the very mind's interest and pre-occupations?

 

Can one make love next to the altar and meditate in a whore-house?

 

 

 

> But is also flourishes so easily when there is

> earnestness and focus.

 

 

Who is to be earnest?

Who is to be focussed?

 

 

> What are your (all) experiences with this and how do you resolve this

> issue?

 

 

The apperception that there is nothing to resolve.

When the mind lusts after that nude blonde, that is noted, when the mind

lusts after the experience of " IAM " that is noted.

 

Recalling a great sex therapist simple treatment to patients with the most

esoteric and complex sexual problems.

 

He used to tell his patients " It is simple. When you are hot you are hot,

when you are not, you are not "

 

Reminds me......

 

Ta Hui's fame as a enlightened Master grew to such proportions, that he was

given the name of " Buddha Sun " as a sign of imperial honour in China.

Ta Hui dies in 1163 AD and just before he dies, he is asked by his disciples

to compose a verse. He does and dies immediately after uttering these words:

 

Birth is thus

Death is thus

Verse or no verse

What's the fuss?

 

 

 

Yes, David, what's the fuss.<s>

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Sandeep

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