I AM THAT: CHAPTER 13: THE SUPREME, THE MIND AND THE BODY

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13 THE SUPREME, THE MIND AND THE BODY PG33

 

Q: From what you told us it appears that you are not quite conscious

of your surroundings. To us you seem extremely alert and active. We

cannot possibly believe that you are in a kind of hypnotic state,

which leaves no memory behind. On the contrary, your memory seems

excellent. How are we to understand your statement that the world and

it includes does not exist, as far as you are concerned.

 

M: It is all a matter of focus. Your mind is focussed in the world;

mine is focussed in reality. It is like the moon in daylight – when

the sun shines, the moon is hardly visible. Or, watch how you take

your food. As long a s it is in your mouth, you are conscious of it;

once swallowed, it does not concern you any longer. It would be

troublesome to have it constantly in mind until it is eliminated. The

mind should be normally in abeyance - incessant activity is a morbid

state. The universe works by itself – that I know. What else do I

need to know?

 

Q: So a sage knows what he is doing only when he turns his mind to

it; otherwise he just acts, without being concerned.

 

M: The average man is not conscious of his body as such. He is

conscious of his sensations, feelings and thoughts. Even these, once

detachment sets in, move away from the center of consciousness and

happen spontaneously and effortlessly.

 

Q: What then is in the center of consciousness?

 

M: That which cannot be given name and form, for it is without

quality and beyond consciousness. You may say it is a point in the

paper is both in the paper and yet not of paper, so is the supreme

state in the very center of consciousness, and yet beyond

consciousness. It is as if an opening in the mind through which the

mind is flooded with light. The opening is not even the light. It is

just an opening.

 

Q: An opening is just void, absence.

 

M: Quite so. From the mind's point of view, it is but an opening for

the light of awareness to enter the mental space. By itself the light

can only be compared to a solid, dense, rocklike, homogeneous and

changeless mass of pure awareness, free from the mental patterns of

name and shape.

 

Q: Is there any connection between the mental space and the supreme

abode?

 

M: The supreme gives existence to the mind. The mind gives existence

to the body.

 

Q: And what lies beyond?

 

M: Take an example. A venerable Yogi, a master in the art of

longevity, himself over 1000 years old, come to teach me his art. I

fully respect and sincerely admire his achievements, yet all I can

tell him is: of what use is longevity to me? I am beyond time.

However long a life may be, it is but a moment and a dream. In the

same way I am beyond all attributes. They appear and disappear in my

light, but cannot describe me. The universe is all names and forms,

based on qualities and their differences, while I am beyond. The

world is there because I am, but I am not the world.

 

Q: But you are living it the world!

 

M: That's what you say! I know there is a world, which includes this

body and this mind, but I do not consider them to be more `mine' than

other minds and bodies. They are there, in time and space, but I am

timeless and spaceless.

 

Q: But since all exists by your light, are you not the creator of the

world?

 

M: I am neither the potentiality nor the actualization, nor the

actuality of things. In my light they come and go as the specks of

dust dancing in the sunbeam. The light illumines the specks, but does

not depend on them. Nor can it be said to create them. It cannot be

even said to know them.

 

Q: I am asking you a question and you are answering. Are you

conscious of the question and the answer?

 

M: In reality I am neither hearing nor answering. In the world of

events the question happens and the answer happens. Nothing happens

to me. Everything just happens.

 

Q: And you are the witness?

 

M: What does witness mean? Make knowledge. It rained and now the rain

is over. I did not get wet. I know it rained, but I am not affected.

I just witnessed the rain.

 

Q: The fully realized man, spontaneously abiding in the supreme

state, appears to eat, drink and so on. Is he aware of it, or not?

 

M: That in which consciousness happens, the universal consciousness

or mind, we call the ether of consciousness. All the objects of

consciousness form the universe. What is beyond both, supporting

both, is the supreme state, state of utter stillness and silence.

Whoever goes there, disappears. It is unreachable by words, or mind.

You may call it God, or Supreme Reality, but these are names given by

the mind. It is the nameless, contentless, effortless and spontaneous

state, beyond being and not-being.

 

Q: But does one remain conscious?

 

M: As the universe is the body of the mind, so is consciousness the

body of the Supreme. It is not conscious, but it gives rise to

consciousness.

 

Q: In my daily action much goes by habit, automatically. I am aware

of the general purpose, but not of each movement in detail. As my

consciousness broadens and deepens, details tend to recede, leaving

me free for the general trends. Does not the same happens to a Sage,

but more so?

 

M: On the level of consciousness – yes. In the supreme state, no.

This state is entirely one and indivisible, a single solid block of

reality. The only way of knowing it is to be. The mind cannot reach

it. To perceive it does not need the sense; to know it, does not need

the mind.

 

Q: This is how God runs the world.

 

M: God is not running the world.

 

Q: Then who is doing it?

 

M: Nobody. All happens by itself. You are asking the question and you

are supplying the answer. And you know the answer when you ask the

question. All is a play in consciousness. All divisions are illusory.

You can know the false only. The true you must yourself be.

 

Q: There is the witnessed consciousness and there is the witnessing

consciousness. Is the second the supreme?

 

M: There are the two – the person and the witness, the observer. When

you see them as one, and go beyond, you are in the supreme state. It

is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception possible. It

is beyond being and not being. It is neither the mirror nor the image

in the mirror. It is what is – the timeless reality, unbelievably

hard and solid.

 

Q: The sage - is the witness or the supreme?

 

M: He is the Supreme, of course, but he can also be viewed as the

universal witness.

 

Q: But he remains a person?

 

M: When you believe yourself to be a person, you see persons

everywhere. In reality there are no person, only threads of memories

and habits. At the moments of realization the person ceases. Identity

remains, but identity is not a person, it is inherent in the reality

itself. The person has no being in itself; it is a reflection in the

mind of the witness, the `I am', which again is a mode of being.

 

Q: Is the Supreme conscious?

 

M: Neither conscious nor unconscious, I am telling you from

experience.

 

Q: What is pure awareness?

 

M: It is the un-selfconscious knowledge of life itself.

 

Q: Is it vitality, the energy of life, livingness?

 

M: Energy comes first. For everything is a form of energy.

Consciousness is most differentiated in the waking state. Less so in

dream. Still less in sleep. Homogeneous – in the fourth state. Beyond

is the inexpressible monolithic reality, the abode of the Sage.

 

Q: I have cut my hand. It healed. By what power did it heal?

 

M: By the power of life.

 

Q: What is that power?

 

M: It is consciousness. All is consciousness.

 

Q: What is the source of consciousness?

 

M: Consciousness itself is the source of consciousness.

 

Q: Can there be life without consciousness?

 

M: No, nor consciousness without life. They are both one. But in

reality only the Ultimate is.

 

The rest is a matter of name and form. And as long as you cling to

the idea that only what has name and shape exists, the Supreme will

appear to you non-existence. When you understand that names and

shapes are hollow shells without any content whatsoever, and what is

real is nameless and formless, pure energy of life and light of

consciousness, you will be at peace – immersed in the deep silence of

reality.

 

Q: If time and space are mere illusions and you are beyond, please

tell me what is the weather in NY. It is hot or raining there?

 

M: How can I tell you? Such things need special training. Or, just

travelling to NY. I may be quite certain that I am beyond time and

space, and yet unable to locate myself at will at some point of time

and space. I am not interested enough; I just heard of NY. To me it

is a word. Why should I know more than the word conveys? Every atom

may be a universe, as complex as ours. Must I know them all? I can –

if I train.

 

Q: In putting the question about the weather in NY, where did I make

the mistake?

 

M: The world and the mind are states of being. The Supreme is not a

state. It pervades all states, but it is not a state of something

else. It is entirely uncaused, independent, complete in itself,

beyond time and space, mind and matter.

 

Q: By what sign do you recognize it?

 

M: That's the point that it leaves no traces. There is nothing to

recognize it by. It must be seen directly, by giving all search for

signs and approaches. When all names and forms have been given up,

the real is with you. You need not seek it. Plurality and diversity

are the play of the mind only. Reality is one.

 

Q: If reality leaves no evidence, there is no speaking about it.

 

M: It is. It cannot be denied. It is deep and dark, mystery beyond

mystery. But it is, while all else merely happens.

 

Q: Is it the unknown?

 

M: It is beyond both, the known and the unknown. But I would rather

call it known, than the unknown. For whenever some thing is known, it

is the real that is known.

 

Q: Is silence an attribute of the real?

 

M: This too is of the mind. All states and conditions are of the mind.

 

Q: What is the place of samadhi?

 

M: Not making sure use of one's consciousness is samadhi. You just

leave your mind alone. You want nothing, neither from your body nor

from your mind.