Guest guest Posted April 1, 2001 Report Share Posted April 1, 2001 Dear List, I wanted to use the post below to examine the idea of causation (coincidentally one of Ramesh's favorite topics). Let's look at what happened. It appears that Sandeep went to visit Ramesh, asked a question, replied posing himself as " an idiot, " and causing laughter from everyone, an answer appeared. Sandeep then carried this and posted it to the NetOfJewels list,thus 'benefitting' everyone there and also here on the Nisargadatta list. It seems very convenient, doesn't it? These 'conveniences' seem to pop up everywhere. One could even formulate some delusional ideas that " this was meant to be, " and " Sandeep is saintly " and " This was for the benefit of everyone. " Well, going on the " theory " that causes can't be traced, Maya is chaos and there is no doer, suppose Sandeep had so happened to phrase the reply this way: " For the act of compassion to take place, there has to be some idiot like Ramesh sitting there and someone like Sandeep sitting here, asking intelligent questions. " The hall probably would have gone into an angry uproar, Ramesh would have been forced to ban Sandeep from ever coming back, and it would probably never have been reported to the lists, and " no benefits " for anybody. Is one situation " good, the way it should be, just right " and the other situation " bad, never could have happened, wrong? " Thought creates situations... it then asks questions about the very situations it creates, and creates answers to fit those questions. It's all very circular and predictable. Both scenarios are equally 'real' or 'unreal'... what 'really happened' and the situation " I formulated " above. " Good " and " Bad " are a duality created by thought. Seeing this clearly is " going beyond thought. " The mind creates meaning, creates a situation, the WHOLE situation detailed below, from Sandeep " deciding " to go see Ramesh, up until someone posted the results to the list (this as an " event " ). Thought concludes " Hey, this is good... it has benefitted me hearing this, and it's amazing we have someone like Sandeep to visit Ramesh and report it on the lists. " Yet there is no benefit or wrongdoing. It could have happened either way, thought would predictably react (according to its apparent laws) and things would have appeared to happen, " good " or " bad. " All this is the delusion. See it as the delusion it is. Thought creates ideas like " Realization " or " Enlightenment " and then goes chasing after the very ideas it has created, as though it needs to find 'answers' to questions it created out of nothing, out of nothingness, that just arose from nowhere. It's all " mental, " it's all happening in thought. Namaste, Tim Nisargadatta, elizabethwells2001 wrote: > Hi, > > Just coming back from, sitting in the physical presence of > Ramesh. > > He has got a new poster. > > So long there is a me, let me remember Thee, Oh Lord. > > LOL. > > I spoke to him about why do enlightened Masters speak, > suggest something to do, etc etc, knowing that there is nobody to > do something, anything. > > He asked me " Why do you think " > > I replied for the act of compassion to take place, there has to be > someone like Ramesh sitting there and an idiot like Sandeep > sitting here, asking idiotic questions. > > Ramesh and the whole hall of people burst out laughing. > > And Ramesh replies " We are all idiots > Some more advanced, some not so. > What else could be more idiocy than, knowing that > conceptualization is the cause of all problems, yet > conceptualization continues. > Till it does not continue anymore, till that time, enjoy the idiocy. > After all, there is a unique joy in idiocy also and total Freedom > would mean to also have the freedom to enjoy being an idiot " > > (Not a verbatim quoting) > > > Cheers > > Sandeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 - " Omkara " <coresite <Nisargadatta > Monday, April 02, 2001 07:14 AM Examining " Ramesh & Idiocy " Dear List, I wanted to use the post below to examine the idea of causation (coincidentally one of Ramesh's favorite topics). Let's look at what happened. It appears that Sandeep went to visit Ramesh, asked a question, replied posing himself as " an idiot, " and causing laughter from everyone, an answer appeared. Sandeep then carried this and posted it to the NetOfJewels list,thus 'benefitting' everyone there and also here on the Nisargadatta list. It seems very convenient, doesn't it? These 'conveniences' seem to pop up everywhere. One could even formulate some delusional ideas that " this was meant to be, " and " Sandeep is saintly " and " This was for the benefit of everyone. " Well, going on the " theory " that causes can't be traced, Maya is chaos and there is no doer, suppose Sandeep had so happened to phrase the reply this way: " For the act of compassion to take place, there has to be some idiot like Ramesh sitting there and someone like Sandeep sitting here, asking intelligent questions. " The hall probably would have gone into an angry uproar, Ramesh would have been forced to ban Sandeep from ever coming back, and it would probably never have been reported to the lists, and " no benefits " for anybody. ------------- Somehow I think the hall would fall apart with the laughter, with Ramesh falling on the ground from his non-dualistic chair, but then that's a personal opinion. Since the event as you describe was not appropriate and thus did not take place, anything speculated about it would be purely conceptual. Cheers Sandeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Hi Sandeep, Thinking on it again (from my limited knowledge of Ramesh and his attendees), I could see how it might go either way... depending on the atmosphere in the room maybe, or the particular people attending or any number of things. But I used the original speculation (what might happen) as an example to lead to a different point, not as the focus of the posting. Cheers, Tim NondualitySalon, " Sandeep Chatterjee " <sandeepc@b...> wrote: <Tim's post below> > Well, going on the " theory " that causes can't be traced, Maya is > chaos and there is no doer, suppose Sandeep had so happened to > phrase the reply this way: > > " For the act of compassion to take place, there has to be some idiot > like Ramesh sitting there and someone like Sandeep sitting here, > asking intelligent questions. " > > The hall probably would have gone into an angry uproar, Ramesh would > have been forced to ban Sandeep from ever coming back, and it would > probably never have been reported to the lists, and " no benefits " for > anybody. > > -------------- <Sandeep starts here> > > Somehow I think the hall would fall apart with the laughter, with Ramesh > falling on the ground from his non-dualistic chair, but then that's a > personal opinion. > > Since the event as you describe was not appropriate and thus did not take > place, anything speculated about it would be purely conceptual. > > Cheers > > Sandeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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