Dave/Dave - Apology

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

 

Nisargadatta, " D. Sirjue " <dsirju@n...> wrote:

> > Sometimes the 'temptation' is to from all mailing

> > lists and give it up at once, but so far it hasn't happened :-).

>

> Hi Tim,

>

> Perhaps it hasn't happened yet because conversing with

> members of this or other lists, is an extension

> of your inner dialogue that maintains and perpetuates

> yourself - as you know and experience yourself.

 

Perhaps, although 'causes' aren't of much interest at this point. If

there's any truth to the above, then so be it... having dropped the

constant search for answers (or more accurately, the search having

dropped off 'of itself'), the questions become moot. " Spontaneity "

takes over, and basically suffering is finished -- kaput.

 

> This compulsive and repetitive naming process -I am

> this, I am that, I am Tim, I am happy and so on - is

> what maintains your separate identity. So we bunch

> with others in society who can reinforce this " self-lie " .

 

No process like the one described above has been noticed here -- " I

am this, I am that. " What you seem to be describing is a kind of

obsessive/incessant mental activity. It isn't happening here. But

it does sound like a possible 'explanation' for why " people generally

haunt these lists " -- and might be useful for one interested in

explanations.

 

> I'm putting it to you Tim - to be without a separate structure,

> a reference point, is a most terrifying possibility to the

> unenlightened mind!

 

Indeed, it does seem so. Yet it's nothing but a sheer delight here --

to live an utterly unstructured/unfettered existence -- no 'ground

under one's feet'. Even the 'sense of time passing' fades into

oblivion (specific examples of 'losing entire weeks' come to mind).

 

> Ego-death is not some imaginative game, it is a real fire,

> it blows to hell the separative consciousness and all that

> goes with it.

 

Indeed it does. But who is affirming the above? Whoever 'that one'

is, does he ask himself " why this affirmation? " Clue: It isn't

intended for " Tim, " but for someone else :-).

 

> The transformation, if there is any my friend, is through 'fear',

> rather than escaping into any consoling or distracting gimmicks.

 

Ahh so. Having 'suffered' unrelenting panic attacks 1988-1992 (at

least 7 voluntary hospitalizations), that is well understood here.

Waking up 15-20 times/night drenched in cold sweat isn't much fun :-).

 

> Avoidance only postpones the appointed moment that all must face

> at some point, either while living or on the death bed.

> I see it rather as a blessing though, since " Truth " is revealed and

> all that is insecure and transient is removed.

 

All that 'occurs' is blessed. Even the so called " worst sufferings "

are only a doorway to blessedness. Having been homeless here several

times, addicted to drugs, diagnosed 'mentally ill' and such,

suffering is well understood.

 

> When this insight, when this courage to stand alone

> dawns on you, it doesn't matter whether you leave all forums

> or remain.

 

Indeed. Still, after all this prattling, the 'original statement i

made' remains unchanged:

 

" Sometimes the 'temptation' is to from all mailing

lists and give it up at once, but so far it hasn't happened :-). "

 

" Why " it hasn't happened is of no interest whatsoever -- it's a case

of what you might describe as " just reporting " :-)

 

Namaste,

 

Tim