Guest guest Posted June 16, 2001 Report Share Posted June 16, 2001 Dear Everyone, In a sleeping dream, occasionally there will be a Realization that we are dreaming. Or, perhaps someone will approach us in the dream and say, " You're dreaming, old chap, " then we Realize it :-). When something like this happens, we call it a lucid dream. After " recollecting " the waking state, it is unlikely we will remain asleep long. The call of a state " more real " than the dream continues as long as remembrance of the waking state continues, and very shortly thereafter we wake up. If the very same thing happens in the waking state, if we realize we are " dreaming " and there is a a " state " more actual than this, we will not remain " asleep " long. Often, someone will approach us and say " You're dreaming, old chap " :-). But for some reason, there is not often a Realization that we are dreaming. And even if we hear the words and accept them intellectually, waking up is always for the tomorrow. It is something to be postponed, and a hundred million 'reasons' could be given, but always something for tomorrow, for next week, for anytime but now -- anyplace but here. Only one conclusion could come out of this... that " the dream " is just too interesting. We do not wish to leave it. Justifications about " fear of losing the ego " and such do not make much sense, because there is no fear involved in waking up -- in fact, fear is left behind completely, and we all know this at least intellectually. Fear and suffering are left behind forever in " Waking Up, " we know this, every sage says it, every scripture says it, our own hearts say it! We do not wish to wake up, the dream is far too interesting and involving. If an explanation were sought, no other makes much sense. Attention will not divert from the dream, it is simply too riveting and involving. Namaste, Omkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2001 Report Share Posted June 16, 2001 Hi Tim! No dream character can wake up, because there is no one in the dream. The dream isn't being forced into being, is if someone were making the dream happen, like a dreamer. Thus, no one is in the dream. All the realizations of any dream characters who had a realization are simply " another aspect of this seamlessly woven dream. " Because there is no one in the dream, there is no explanation for why dream characters realize or don't realize. The entire seamless dream is " a function of space. " Space is " just there " and only seems to have dimension when a dream character perceives in terms of dimensionality. Space is " thoughtless " and only seems to have thought when a dream character perceives a thought. Why refer to this as a dream, and discuss beings as dream characters? No reason. It's just a fun metaphor, and all words are, are metaphors. Dreams are " closer to " reality than waking perceptions, because dreams unfold as unsplit totalities. Dreams heal misperceptions involved in " waking life. " And yes, there is nothing but reality. The entire dream actually is reality itself, which has never split itself from itself. Sweet dreams ;-p Love, Dan Dear Everyone, In a sleeping dream, occasionally there will be a Realization that we are dreaming. Or, perhaps someone will approach us in the dream and say, " You're dreaming, old chap, " then we Realize it :-). When something like this happens, we call it a lucid dream. After " recollecting " the waking state, it is unlikely we will remain asleep long. The call of a state " more real " than the dream continues as long as remembrance of the waking state continues, and very shortly thereafter we wake up. If the very same thing happens in the waking state, if we realize we are " dreaming " and there is a a " state " more actual than this, we will not remain " asleep " long. Often, someone will approach us and say " You're dreaming, old chap " :-). But for some reason, there is not often a Realization that we are dreaming. And even if we hear the words and accept them intellectually, waking up is always for the tomorrow. It is something to be postponed, and a hundred million 'reasons' could be given, but always something for tomorrow, for next week, for anytime but now -- anyplace but here. Only one conclusion could come out of this... that " the dream " is just too interesting. We do not wish to leave it. Justifications about " fear of losing the ego " and such do not make much sense, because there is no fear involved in waking up -- in fact, fear is left behind completely, and we all know this at least intellectually. Fear and suffering are left behind forever in " Waking Up, " we know this, every sage says it, every scripture says it, our own hearts say it! We do not wish to wake up, the dream is far too interesting and involving. If an explanation were sought, no other makes much sense. Attention will not divert from the dream, it is simply too riveting and involving. Namaste, Omkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2001 Report Share Posted June 16, 2001 Hi Dan-ji, Thanks for the input... as stated in the subject line, it was only a metaphor... In this case, it was only to compare " awakening " to something already well-known (sleeping dreams and " waking up " ), on the off-chance that it might spark an intuition... and to point out that there is nothing to fear from the idea of " awakening, " and that the obsessive interest/involvement of Awareness in perceived objects seems to mask or obscure 'apperception'. One thing you said that i really liked: > Dreams are " closer to " reality than > waking perceptions, because dreams > unfold as unsplit totalities. > Dreams heal misperceptions involved > in " waking life. " Yes, indeed. In sleeping dreams (noticed here), there's usually no sense of doership involved, and rarely any " self-consciousness, " nor does the idea of " waking, dreaming and deep sleep " arise... rather, sleeping dreams seem to present a simple unrolling of events to a witness of those events, as you noted -- and yes, they do heal misperceptions... it could be said that " vasanas " get 'cleared out' in dreams. Namaste, Tim Nisargadatta, Daniel Berkow <berkowd@u...> wrote: > Hi Tim! > > No dream character can > wake up, because there > is no one in the dream. > > The dream isn't being forced > into being, is if someone > were making the dream happen, > like a dreamer. Thus, no > one is in the dream. > > All the realizations of any > dream characters who had a realization > are simply " another aspect of this > seamlessly woven dream. " > > Because there is no one in the dream, > there is no explanation for why > dream characters realize or don't > realize. > > The entire seamless dream is > " a function of space. " > > Space is " just there " and > only seems to have dimension > when a dream character perceives > in terms of dimensionality. > Space is " thoughtless " and > only seems to have thought > when a dream character perceives > a thought. > > Why refer to this as a dream, and > discuss beings as dream characters? > > No reason. It's just a fun metaphor, > and all words are, are metaphors. > > Dreams are " closer to " reality than > waking perceptions, because dreams > unfold as unsplit totalities. > Dreams heal misperceptions involved > in " waking life. " > > And yes, there is nothing but reality. > > The entire dream actually is reality > itself, which has never split itself > from itself. > > Sweet dreams ;-p > > Love, > Dan > > > > > >Dear Everyone, > > > >In a sleeping dream, occasionally there will be a Realization that we > >are dreaming. Or, perhaps someone will approach us in the dream and > >say, " You're dreaming, old chap, " then we Realize it :-). > > > >When something like this happens, we call it a lucid dream. > >After " recollecting " the waking state, it is unlikely we will remain > >asleep long. The call of a state " more real " than the dream > >continues as long as remembrance of the waking state continues, and > >very shortly thereafter we wake up. > > > >If the very same thing happens in the waking state, if we realize we > >are " dreaming " and there is a a " state " more actual than this, we > >will not remain " asleep " long. Often, someone will approach us and > >say " You're dreaming, old chap " :-). > > > >But for some reason, there is not often a Realization that we are > >dreaming. And even if we hear the words and accept them > >intellectually, waking up is always for the tomorrow. It is > >something to be postponed, and a hundred million 'reasons' could be > >given, but always something for tomorrow, for next week, for anytime > >but now -- anyplace but here. > > > >Only one conclusion could come out of this... that " the dream " is > >just too interesting. We do not wish to leave it. Justifications > >about " fear of losing the ego " and such do not make much sense, > >because there is no fear involved in waking up -- in fact, fear is > >left behind completely, and we all know this at least > >intellectually. Fear and suffering are left behind forever > >in " Waking Up, " we know this, every sage says it, every scripture > >says it, our own hearts say it! > > > >We do not wish to wake up, the dream is far too interesting and > >involving. If an explanation were sought, no other makes much > >sense. Attention will not divert from the dream, it is simply too > >riveting and involving. > > > >Namaste, > > > >Omkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2001 Report Share Posted June 16, 2001 Hi Dan-ji, Thanks for the input... as stated in the subject line, it was only a metaphor... Hi Tim-ji-san! Yes -- I indeed picked that up, and right on-target ... In this case, it was only to compare " awakening " to something already well-known (sleeping dreams and " waking up " ), on the off-chance that it might spark an intuition... and to point out that there is nothing to fear from the idea of " awakening, " and that the obsessive interest/involvement of Awareness in perceived objects seems to mask or obscure 'apperception'. One thing you said that i really liked: > Dreams are " closer to " reality than > waking perceptions, because dreams > unfold as unsplit totalities. > Dreams heal misperceptions involved > in " waking life. " Yes, indeed. In sleeping dreams (noticed here), there's usually no sense of doership involved, and rarely any " self-consciousness, " nor does the idea of " waking, dreaming and deep sleep " arise... rather, sleeping dreams seem to present a simple unrolling of events to a witness of those events, as you noted -- and yes, they do heal misperceptions... it could be said that " vasanas " get 'cleared out' in dreams. Nice resonating with you, Tim, from this (non)position in the dream that is interwoven so seamlessly ... Namaste! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2001 Report Share Posted June 16, 2001 There is also the experience of vacillating between being close to awake, and being very asleep. I think we were all given very strong sedatives. ;-) -mort Nisargadatta, " Omkara " <coresite@h...> wrote: > > Dear Everyone, > > In a sleeping dream, occasionally there will be a Realization that we > are dreaming. Or, perhaps someone will approach us in the dream and > say, " You're dreaming, old chap, " then we Realize it :-). > > When something like this happens, we call it a lucid dream. > After " recollecting " the waking state, it is unlikely we will remain > asleep long. The call of a state " more real " than the dream > continues as long as remembrance of the waking state continues, and > very shortly thereafter we wake up. > > If the very same thing happens in the waking state, if we realize we > are " dreaming " and there is a a " state " more actual than this, we > will not remain " asleep " long. Often, someone will approach us and > say " You're dreaming, old chap " :-). > > But for some reason, there is not often a Realization that we are > dreaming. And even if we hear the words and accept them > intellectually, waking up is always for the tomorrow. It is > something to be postponed, and a hundred million 'reasons' could be > given, but always something for tomorrow, for next week, for anytime > but now -- anyplace but here. > > Only one conclusion could come out of this... that " the dream " is > just too interesting. We do not wish to leave it. Justifications > about " fear of losing the ego " and such do not make much sense, > because there is no fear involved in waking up -- in fact, fear is > left behind completely, and we all know this at least > intellectually. Fear and suffering are left behind forever > in " Waking Up, " we know this, every sage says it, every scripture > says it, our own hearts say it! > > We do not wish to wake up, the dream is far too interesting and > involving. If an explanation were sought, no other makes much > sense. Attention will not divert from the dream, it is simply too > riveting and involving. > > Namaste, > > Omkara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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