Skye / Toasting Life

[Guest guest]

Hi Skye --

 

Hi Dan,

 

The flow of these conversations often become confusing to me, so

i've included our thread in full below.

O.K.

 

 

We began with an inquiry into

how thought (an inseparable part of

all that is) gives death meaning because of its limited

perception of images coming and going and changing of

forms.

Thought is not separate, but thought

relies on perceived separations.

Being, if situated in an ongoing thought-context,

strives to maintain identity and continuity.

Free of identification, being *is* reality -- is not

separated from thought, but is

transcendent of any thought-categories.

Senses perceive in terms of separation.

So, being *as* reality is not

separated from senses, but is

transcendent of any sense object,

or perceptions of difference by comparison

(e.g., pain/pleasure, living/nonliving)

 

 

 

Then your train of thought

moved to the idea that " If you've

killed yourself, the road, and everything on it --There's nothing

to kill "

Killing oneself, in this metaphorical context,

refers to the ending of the false

self that is situated in and as

thought-construction and

sensory objectification, including

" personal memory " .

It is the ending of any attempt to

continue an identity based

in thought-images and

sensory objectifications.

 

 

I found this introduction - of

the idea of a you that can be

killed after having just offered:

 

" Eternal life has no parts.

The idea of constituents

that break down and

change form is also

" human thought. "

 

The " you " that is " killed " (metaphorically)

is the separated observer that

has never had an existence

in *reality*, only via thought-images involving

separation.

When this transitory self, which

is merely the effort to maintain consistent

identity, is not -- what *is* remains as always,

what *is* -- if said negatively, as in Buddhism,

it would be said that " there is no grasping

after self -- only " nirvana " -- the end of

suffering

 

- most confusing. Perhaps

if you were to point out which part of

the dialog prompted it i would better understand.

Also your introduction of an " it " [killing?] sliding into

the

past...constituents with nothing to do but repeat " is

similarly

unclear to me here, in this ever new unrepeatable now

moment.

Yes, the " now-moment " is eternal and undivided,

hence neither instant nor gradual. It is nonrepeating

and never appearing (if it could appear, the appearance

could repeat).

 

Yet, we have " sensory experience " and " memory " ,

which involve registration of an experience and

the " recall " of impressions which are used

to filter and interpret the presently perceived

moment of experience.

 

The " it " that slides into the past could be

termed " awareness " or " sense of being "

....

 

" It " hasn't *really* slid into the past (which is

not possible), but there is the effort to

perceive as if this were so.

 

Thus, there is a sense of identity based

on repeated " in-formation " from memory.

 

Violence, wars, aggression are one aspect

of the dramas that are recycled and

repeated as memory images become

the basis for trying to establish " I "

as an entity who can " have " and " lose "

....

However, so are peace, education,

and security ... ;-)

 

When there is not any sliding into the

past whatsoever, this very " now-moment "

*is* as is -- nonrepeating, noncycling,

not moving forward or backward, not

sustaining any entities inside or outside ...

 

Nothing is really sliding into the past--

this is why such sliding

has been called illusion, maya,

the repetition of " tendencies " , and ignorance.

 

When clarity is, illusion is not.

With clarity, even the apparent movement

of memory, thought, and sensation

doesn't disguise reality.

When illusion has a " hold " on awareness,

perception occurs as if things repeat --

particularly a repeating self, but also

repeating images of things, qualities,

and sensations.

 

When one is closely aware of

the self, the self seemingly

is coming in and out of being moment to moment,

(re-incarnating) but with " full clarity " , nothing comes

in or out

of " this now-moment " (the end of the cycle of

birth-death) ...

 

There is only " this " ...

" This " alone ...

 

A question may arise as to how the

illusory (the repetition of memory images

as if real) can seem even temporarily

real -- if only reality *is* ...

 

However, it is understood, with clarity,

that this question itself depends on

assumptions of a continuing " knower "

who could ask and answer questions,

and this " knower " is a recycling of

images of the past ...

 

Namaste,

Dan

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

Skye

 

 

The thread in full:

 

KKT: The body dies,

but the DNA remains :-))

 

Skye: But both the body and DNA are made of the same constituents

which just break down, change form and remain a part of eternal

life. Death means nothing to the body. Only human thought

gives

meaning to death because it perceives form and not its

sub-stance. It ignores the fact that the electrical component of

thought is inseparable from life. Human thought sees comings

and

goings, and imagines all sorts of impossible things.

 

Dan:

Quite true.

And ...

Eternal life has no parts.

The idea of constituents

that break down and

change form is also

" human thought. "

 

Skye: Yes

Eternal life is not related to any " thing " . It is exactly equal

to

awareness choosing to be a human brain imagining isolated

constituents. Yet observing so, does not divide eternal life one

iota.

 

This unique ever new un-repeatable now moment is exactly equal to

" behaviour " breaking down, up, in or out. A process

only

partially observed by human consciousness as solid isolated

constituents independently affected.

 

Language is so hobbling. One barely enters the freeway of

non-constitutional experience before being pulled up by the *One

Who?* police wanting their " ello ello *WHATS* goin' on

'ere "

politically correct verbals :-)))

 

Dan: If you see Buddha on the road,

kill him.

If you see Nondual police on the

road, kill them.

If you see yourself killing things

on the road, kill yourself.

If you've killed yourself, the road,

and everything on it --

There's nothing to kill.

 

So, in that case...

 

L'Chaim ...

 

A toast to life!

 

Skye: Yes, no need, no " thing " to kill,

though such " behaviour " is rampant

 

....clink :-)

 

Dan: Cheers!

Yes, it is rampant

" in the past " ...

 

Funny, how easy

it seems to slide

into the past ...

 

constituents. Then, there's nothing

to do but

repeat, repeat, repeat ...

 

Kill or be kill, what else

could it be about?

 

Or -- just ... " being " ,

and nothing to kill

or be killed ...

 

Life alone ...

 

Love,

Dan