Mutual investigating

[Guest guest]

Hi Tim,

 

Yes of course,

we are here to explore Nisargadattas pointings. Please do,

keep posting them, i enjoy them all. Thats not the sort of

expounding i was talking about. My post is not faulting him nor

anyone for that matter, simply sharing an observation.

 

Nisargadatta was not a preacher on a podium, like book readers

often are. He conversed with his visitors, inquired with them

into the nature of their questions and their lives. He

interacted, opened his home to them and to his true nature. He

wasn't a oneway street.

 

I was making an observation about mailing list expounders

(explainers). Book learners who have read profusely the

teachings of others and try to discuss their understandings in

that same vein on the internet. But its a process that blocks

mutual investigation. When book learners ask a question, they

don't wait for an answer, they answer it themselves! There is

very little mutual inquiry. They tell rather than discuss as they

have only ever known nondual book monologs telling *them*.

Investigating each moment anew with living ineractive human

beings via the internet opens up a whole new can of worms :-)

 

Nondual books have bred a nondual salesmen, who cannot openly

investigate in an air of unknowing vulnerability. Instead from

behind the anonymity of computers an image of certainty is

projected, as they re-sell their book learning and forego mutual

investigation.

 

But Nisargadatta - like UG - wasn't precious with himself. He was

ALIVE and out there interacting with everything. He wasn't

living up to images or expounding in monologues.

 

Thats the inquiry i speak of.

 

Just observing

Skye

 

 

Omkara <coresite@h...>

 

....rather, what thirteenth century mystic, Jnaneshvar, says,

rings

loud and clear in this gathering: " Truly, there is neither

bondage

nor freedom; there is nothing to be accomplished. There is only

the

pleasure of expounding. "

 

Today has been most enjoyable indeed, from that perspective :-).

 

Anyway, this list is dedicated to the teachings of Nisargadatta

Maharaj... is it really any surprise that on a list dedicated to

a

particular Guru, teachings related to that Guru will be

expounded?

 

But what inquiry do you speak of? That happens only in solitude

and

silent introspection, says Yoda :-).

 

Joy & Blessings,

 

Tim

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta, " skye chambers " <skyechambers@b...> wrote:

 

> Nondual books have bred a nondual salesmen, who cannot openly

> investigate in an air of unknowing vulnerability. Instead from

> behind the anonymity of computers an image of certainty is

> projected, as they re-sell their book learning and forego mutual

> investigation.

 

Dear Skye,

 

Your invitation for honest inquiry is appreciated. It's true that

nonduality breeds its own forms of fundamentalism. Does the Being,

or the blatant brutality of Being as you call it, really need

nonduality preachers to reveal itself to itself? Yet, among others

that seems to be a game that goes on. Unfolding our own myths while

being honest, original and interesting is not an easy art form.

 

Having agreed with you, I'd like to point something else as well.

When we are writing the fiction of our selves, like most writers we

start by imitating others till we hope to develop our own voice.

Whether the mind is writing the story of the ego or creating a work

of fiction, the mind values well developed characters. It's again

the same mind that idealizes the originality and honesty as good

things. The mind frowns upon the parroting preachers who are

recycling the stale material.

 

Who sets these ideals? Who's manipulating us into playing a certain

role whether it's the role of a preacher or an inquiring mind?

 

Hur

[Guest guest]

" Hur Guler " <Hur1@a...>

Nisargadatta, " skye chambers " <skyechambers@b...>

wrote:

 

> Nondual books have bred a nondual salesmen, who cannot openly

> investigate in an air of unknowing vulnerability. Instead from

> behind the anonymity of computers an image of certainty is

> projected, as they re-sell their book learning and forego

mutual

> investigation.

 

Dear Skye,

 

>Your invitation for honest inquiry is appreciated.

 

Thank you Hur, and likewise your opening. The weight of mental

conditioning is so much heavier these days, than it was for the

ancients. Being able to talk it out in groups initiates the walk

more surely for many of us.

 

Hur: It's true that

nonduality breeds its own forms of fundamentalism. Does the

Being, or the blatant brutality of Being as you call it, really

need nonduality preachers to reveal itself to itself? Yet,

among others that seems to be a game that goes on. Unfolding our

own myths while being honest, original and interesting is not an

easy art form.

 

Skye: Whats happening to me is that a mental door is finally

opening. To where? i do not know. This consciousness is turning

away or shifting its focus from the realm of human imagination

which it once held so dear, for all of it has revealed itself to

be a mass of mental pollution. Everywhere i look are the mental

garments i once happily donned, never realising how they hindered

sensible functioning. As i approach this door - to i know not

where - its as though i am mentally dis-robing and an emptiness

is looming. Its not that thought is being silenced, but that its

imaginings are being sloughed off and this nervous system feels

as though its being released from what feels like a grip these

imaginings held over it. This releasing is at times very

emotional.

 

Hur: Having agreed with you, I'd like to point something else as

well. When we are writing the fiction of our selves, like most

writers we start by imitating others till we hope to develop our

own voice.

 

Skye: Understood.

 

Whats emotional is that the realisation of the depth of this

mental pollution - that is human life - is leaving no choice but

to bid it farewell and keep turning towards that door. Something

is tired of being the puppet of mental imaginings and senselessly

valued fictional characters. The idea of developing my own voice,

has completely lost its allure, it would only be another fiction

anyway. Whats taking its place is a curiosity that has become so

magnetic that something is even willing to sacrifice itself, and

all known creativity, to see beyond what has held such a grip,

this conceptually overlayed life.

 

Hur: Whether the mind is writing the story of the ego or creating

a work of fiction, the mind values well developed characters.

It's again the same mind that idealises the originality and

honesty as goodthings. The mind frowns upon the parroting

preachers who are recycling the stale material.

 

Who sets these ideals? Who's manipulating us into playing a

certain role whether it's the role of a preacher or an inquiring

mind?

 

Hur

 

Skye: The imagination Hur, thats what sets the ideals and plays

all the roles. Stripped of it, thought become still, sensible

and strong and emotional strings cease to quiver. Each time i

turn away from imagining's games a calm pervades. It feels as

though peace on earth is beyond that door and its empty of all i

have known.