Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 Bowl of Saki for July 10 IT IS THE LOVER OF GOD WHOSE HEART IS FILLED WITH DEVOTION, WHO CAN COMMUNE WITH GOD, NOT ONE WHO MAKES AN EFFORT WITH HIS INTELLECT TO ANALYZE GOD. -- Hazrat Inayat Khan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 At 03:41 PM 7/10/01 +0000, you wrote: Bowl of Saki for July 10 IT IS THE LOVER OF GOD WHOSE HEART IS FILLED WITH DEVOTION, WHO CAN COMMUNE WITH GOD, NOT ONE WHO MAKES AN EFFORT WITH HIS INTELLECT TO ANALYZE GOD. -- Hazrat Inayat Khan In fact, emotion and devotion are other aspects of conceptuality, along with the intellect .... Concept involves a " this " related to a " that " .... whether through emotion, devotion, or an attempt to comprehend intellectually ... The limits of conceptuality are reached when projection is understood clearly for what it is -- the placement of " this " in relation to " that " , without which no sensation, emotion, experience, memory or thought could occur ... Love, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 - Daniel Berkow Nisargadatta Tuesday, July 10, 2001 12:36 PM Re: from sufis list..... At 03:41 PM 7/10/01 +0000, you wrote: Bowl of Saki for July 10IT IS THE LOVER OF GOD WHOSE HEART IS FILLEDWITH DEVOTION, WHO CAN COMMUNE WITH GOD,NOT ONE WHO MAKES AN EFFORT WITH HISINTELLECT TO ANALYZE GOD. -- Hazrat Inayat Khan In fact, emotion and devotion are other aspects of conceptuality, along with the intellect ... Hiya Dan, my few conceptional bits.. Sure devotion is also a concept.., but may I suggest that the devotional path, if pursued intensely and sincerely as probably the case with Kabir, Ramalingam, Ramakrishna and other bhaktas, can create a situation for concept-annihilation. In that path what may occur from an intense longing for the 'beloved' is that the 'lover' comes to the point of total anguish or despair when the beloved ultimately fails to show up. What may occur at that point is that the fire of aspiration, this intense desire or fire of hunger may very well 'burn' up the assumed 'lover'...or as the biblical saying goes "my zeal has eaten me up". The key here is earnest intensity and is probably all that might be required, whether it applies to the separate paths of Jnana, Bhakti or Karma. This situation may be quite identical to Ramana's inquiry "Who am I ?" or even the pursuit of any other Zen Koan such as "What is your original face?" or "What is the sound of one hand clapping?". I doubt whether such inquiry can be fruitful without this earnest intensity... when the question itself is ultimately and honestly realized to be unanswerable, when all the answers turn out to be false, when the questioner fails to arrive at a satisfactory answer and the quest comes to an abrupt halt. The pursuer is now faced with the delimma - should he retreat and return to the old, the false or is 'he' ready to 'die' for the truth... ...such earnestness though is admittedly rare to come by. ~dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 Hi Dave -- What you say is very true. And this: no one has ever died and gone to heaven, love, eternity, knowingness -- no matter what has been said. There is only one who dies, and that one is present, is dying here, now ... There is no other heaven, love, eternity, knowingness ... The ways that have been spoken of, are not the Way ... The pointers and paths cannot point, cannot show ... Even to say: This alone is the Way ... I alone am the Way ... is saying far too much ... Speaking even one word -- a million volumes will now not suffice. Remaining silent for even one instant -- a million years of penance now will not suffice ... Love, Dan Hiya Dan, my few conceptional bits.. Sure devotion is also a concept.., but may I suggest that the devotional path, if pursued intensely and sincerely as probably the case with Kabir, Ramalingam, Ramakrishna and other bhaktas, can create a situation for concept-annihilation. In that path what may occur from an intense longing for the 'beloved' is that the 'lover' comes to the point of total anguish or despair when the beloved ultimately fails to show up. What may occur at that point is that the fire of aspiration, this intense desire or fire of hunger may very well 'burn' up the assumed 'lover'...or as the biblical saying goes " my zeal has eaten me up " . The key here is earnest intensity and is probably all that might be required, whether it applies to the separate paths of Jnana, Bhakti or Karma. This situation may be quite identical to Ramana's inquiry " Who am I ? " or even the pursuit of any other Zen Koan such as " What is your original face? " or " What is the sound of one hand clapping? " . I doubt whether such inquiry can be fruitful without this earnest intensity... when the question itself is ultimately and honestly realized to be unanswerable, when all the answers turn out to be false, when the questioner fails to arrive at a satisfactory answer and the quest comes to an abrupt halt. The pursuer is now faced with the delimma - should he retreat and return to the old, the false or is 'he' ready to 'die' for the truth... ...such earnestness though is admittedly rare to come by. ~dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 - Daniel Berkow Nisargadatta Tuesday, July 10, 2001 6:08 PM Re: from sufis list..... Hi Dan, >Remaining silent for even one instant -->a million years of penance now will not suffice ... Yes when there is no 'one' to remain silent silence is, on the other hand 'one' has to do penance. Your language is ever so articulate, if only a couple of these law-yers (liar-yers) could learn a thing or two here. (hope none d to this list!) ~dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 Dear list, ....in continuing with the devotional theme, the following poem by the poet-sage Kabir highlights the plight of a devotee's sincere yearning for the beloved. An intense desire that consumes the lover.. disappearing into the whole. What I gather from this poem is that Kabir appear to to risking everything after having probably tried all the alternatives - rituals, meditation, the scriptures, sermons by gurus, debates and so on. Maybe he said to himself - enough is enough - after seeing everything as futile, a sham. This episode seemed to have occurred during Kabir's youthful life, although not much is known of him even though he lived just a few hundred years ago. He never really left any marks, on the contrary he seemed to have lived such a simple life that virtually effaced himself completely ! Enjoy ~dave "My Body and Mind are in depression Because you are not with me How much I love you and want you in my house. Oh my beloved, when are you going to enter Into my house, into my being. Without you, my body aches, My body is nothing but pain, sheer agony. How much longer do I have to live this way ? How much longer do I have to call you forth ? When I hear people describe me as your bride I look away ashamed Because I know that far inside us We have not met. Then what is this love of mine? If there is something wrong with me You tell me. If something is missing, I will try hard I will cleanse my heart if it is not ready To receive you. If there is any fault, just tell me And I will drop it... I'm ready to risk all But I don't know what to drop. I don't really care about food or sleep I'm restless indoors and outdoors. The bride wants her lover As much as a thirsty man wants water. How restless am I all the time Oh, how much I long to see the beloved. Is there anyone in the whole world Who knows the way, Who knows the beloved, Who knows his address ? I don't know his address, I don't know the way. I go on calling in all directions, Not even knowing what name to call. Is there anyone in the whole world Who has compassion on this helpless man Someone who can deliver my message to the beloved ? Please tell him ' there is a madman dying in deep love for him. Tell him things have reached a point, if he doesn't show up I will die. I cannot remain alive without him. I'm finished, I'm breathing my last' " Kabir Song of Longing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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