Guest guest Posted September 21, 2001 Report Share Posted September 21, 2001 Dear Jim, If your understanding depends on having an experience, then understanding came based on certain experiential conditions. What comes, goes. What depends on conditions won't be there, when those conditions aren't there. Is there an unconditioned and unconditional? Is there *that* which doesn't depend on conditions and doesn't come and go? Can one be aware that if conditions affect understanding, that there is the one who understands this -- who understands conditioning? Who is able to understand the conditional? Who is it that knows about ways that experiences affect understanding? Namaste, Dan --- jimirene55 wrote: > Hello from a newcomer: > Re: " That's why it is preferable and... easier (oh > yes!)... to be > enlightened and realized yourself. That way you > don't have to look > for interpretation and meaning. " > this seems to be the position of all the " masters " > i've studied: it's > beyond intellect and must be experienced first hand. > the > few " realizations " i've had were beyond my intellect > and very > difficult to articulate in common words although the > experience was > describeable in general. (same with my wife!) i > noticed that the > sayings of nisargadatta and ramana, etc. made more > " sense " after i > had an experience than before. also, much of what i > used to be > confussed with or need to " figure out " isn't so > important anymore, > but i still think it's ok to study, debate and > reason. > yours, jim > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews./fc/US/Emergency_Information/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2001 Report Share Posted September 21, 2001 Nisargadatta, dan wrote: > Who is able to understand the conditional? > Who is it that knows about ways that > experiences affect understanding? > > Namaste, > Dan me, but you seldom like my explanations - hohoho! god is all there is? uh, yes. Well then - who are you talking to? HAHAHAH and HOHOHO! Peace - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2001 Report Share Posted September 22, 2001 Hi Dan, Nisargadatta, d b <dan330033> wrote: > Dear Jim, > > If your understanding depends on > having an experience, J: Who's " understanding " ? > then understanding came based on certain experiential conditions. J: Who's " experiential conditions " ? > What comes, goes. What depends on conditions > won't be there, when those conditions aren't > there. J: What/who " comes, goes " and " depends on conditions " ? > > Is there an unconditioned and unconditional? J: Yes! > Is there *that* which doesn't depend on > conditions and doesn't come and go? J: Yes! > > Can one be aware that if conditions affect > understanding, that there is the one who > understands this -- who understands > conditioning? J: Yes! > > Who is able to understand the conditional? J: ME " the one " . > Who is it that knows about ways that > experiences affect understanding? J: I " the one " or I who " comes and goes " ...(???) > > Namaste, > Dan J: thanx Dan for giving me something to understand... yours, Jim > > > --- jimirene55 wrote: > > Hello from a newcomer: > > Re: " That's why it is preferable and... easier (oh > > yes!)... to be > > enlightened and realized yourself. That way you > > don't have to look > > for interpretation and meaning. " > > this seems to be the position of all the " masters " > > i've studied: it's > > beyond intellect and must be experienced first hand. > > the > > few " realizations " i've had were beyond my intellect > > and very > > difficult to articulate in common words although the > > experience was > > describeable in general. (same with my wife!) i > > noticed that the > > sayings of nisargadatta and ramana, etc. made more > > " sense " after i > > had an experience than before. also, much of what i > > used to be > > confussed with or need to " figure out " isn't so > > important anymore, > > but i still think it's ok to study, debate and > > reason. > > yours, jim > > > > > > > > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews./fc/US/Emergency_Information/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2001 Report Share Posted September 22, 2001 > Hi Dan, Hi Jim! > > > > If your understanding depends on > > having an experience, > > J: Who's " understanding " ? Whoever it is that said he had an experience that was somewhat describable, and now finds certain statements easier to understand. > > > then understanding came based on certain > experiential conditions. > > J: Who's " experiential conditions " ? D: Same as above. In other words, you talked about your experience and what resulted. The conditions are the experience, which led to the result (e.g., you now don't try to figure things out so much, you now can make sense of certain statements, etc.) > > > What comes, goes. What depends on conditions > > won't be there, when those conditions aren't > > there. > > J: What/who " comes, goes " and " depends on > conditions " ? Jim, no offense, but I'm sensing a kind of predictable pattern to your responses here ;-) And, after all -- you're the one who made the statement! So -- now you're going to ask me who made the statement? (I would think that the answer is self-evident. Otherwise how and why make the statement about your experience?) > > > > > Is there an unconditioned and unconditional? > > J: Yes! Okay :-) And now, and now, and now ... ;-) > > > Is there *that* which doesn't depend on > > conditions and doesn't come and go? > > J: Yes! Okay. And this, and this, and this ... > > > > Can one be aware that if conditions affect > > understanding, that there is the one who > > understands this -- who understands > > conditioning? > > J: Yes! Okay ... And if one is aware that there is one who understands conditioning -- who is being aware of that awareness of one? > > > > Who is able to understand the conditional? > > J: ME " the one " . Okay ... and deeper and deeper into Me goes Me, until Me and Thee are not Me and Thee ... Whee! > > Who is it that knows about ways that > > experiences affect understanding? > > J: I " the one " or I who " comes and goes " ...(???) Yes! You are coming and going to/with yourself. How can this be? And yet ... now, and now, and now ... > J: thanx Dan for giving me something to > understand... > yours, > Jim Heh, heh! Pretty sly! Here, let me give you something not to understand, nor to be ... Just ... Love, Dan Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger. http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2001 Report Share Posted September 22, 2001 Hi Dan, this morning, as i worked on your message and questions, i had the " experience " of changing from an indiviual person " who comes and goes " overto or into (THAT) " the one " who doesn't " come and go " ! just the placing of my attention on the ME to answer your question: " Who is able to understand the conditional? " moved me from separate person to Self/all/me/that/this/it etc. it didn't last all day but had a significant impact. thanks for helping me to remember myself one more time. respectfully yours, Jim Nisargadatta, d b <dan330033> wrote: > > > Hi Dan, > > Hi Jim! > > > > > > > If your understanding depends on > > > having an experience, > > > > J: Who's " understanding " ? > > Whoever it is that said he had > an experience that was somewhat > describable, and now finds > certain statements easier to > understand. > > > > > > then understanding came based on certain > > experiential conditions. > > > > J: Who's " experiential conditions " ? > > D: Same as above. > In other words, you talked > about your experience and what resulted. > The conditions are the experience, which > led to the result (e.g., you now don't > try to figure things out so much, you > now can make sense of certain statements, > etc.) > > > > > > What comes, goes. What depends on conditions > > > won't be there, when those conditions aren't > > > there. > > > > J: What/who " comes, goes " and " depends on > > conditions " ? > > Jim, no offense, but I'm sensing > a kind of predictable pattern > to your responses here ;-) > > And, after all -- > you're the one who made the statement! > So -- now you're going to ask me > who made the statement? > (I would think that the answer is self-evident. > Otherwise how and why make the statement about > your experience?) > > > > > > > > > Is there an unconditioned and unconditional? > > > > J: Yes! > > Okay :-) And now, and now, and now ... ;-) > > > > > > Is there *that* which doesn't depend on > > > conditions and doesn't come and go? > > > > J: Yes! > > Okay. And this, and this, and this ... > > > > > > > Can one be aware that if conditions affect > > > understanding, that there is the one who > > > understands this -- who understands > > > conditioning? > > > > J: Yes! > > Okay ... And if one is aware that > there is one who understands conditioning -- > who is being aware of that awareness of one? > > > > > > > Who is able to understand the conditional? > > > > J: ME " the one " . > > Okay ... and deeper and deeper into > Me goes Me, until Me and Thee are > not Me and Thee ... Whee! > > > > Who is it that knows about ways that > > > experiences affect understanding? > > > > J: I " the one " or I who " comes and goes " ...(???) > > Yes! You are coming and going to/with yourself. > How can this be? > And yet ... now, and now, and now ... > > > J: thanx Dan for giving me something to > > understand... > > yours, > > Jim > > Heh, heh! Pretty sly! > Here, let me give you something > not to understand, nor to be ... > Just ... > > Love, > Dan > > > > > > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger. http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2001 Report Share Posted September 23, 2001 Hi Jim - Thanks for your response. Yes, coming and going without going or coming is really something -- who am I? -- *This* doesn't care what people say, or what they say they're thinking about or experiencing. It's clear that the no-thing that is, isn't preturbed at all by these statements. It just carries on being " us " without a complaint, and listens to all our complaints without the least disturbance. Saying nothing, being everything, what else? Love, Dan > this morning, as i worked on your message and > questions, i had > the " experience " of changing from an indiviual > person " who comes and > goes " overto or into (THAT) " the one " who doesn't > " come and go " ! just > the placing of my attention on the ME to answer your > question: " Who > is able to understand the conditional? " moved me > from separate person > to Self/all/me/that/this/it etc. it didn't last all > day but had a > significant impact. thanks for helping me to > remember myself one more > time. > respectfully yours, > Jim > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Messenger. http://im. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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