Guest guest Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Nisargadatta group: Does mysticism suggest determinism? If we are all One then do we, at some level, agree to any abuses or happinesses that occur in our lives? Do we agree to be 'murdered' and who we will 'marry'? o Yes, our I AM consents to everything that happens to us. o No, we are solely responsible for harming or loving another. o Everything that happens to us is determined by ourselves in a pre-life state (not in the Now). o We do plan our lives prior to birth but we can 'break the pattern' by using our free will. o None of us have any individual choice over what happens to us, it is all chosen (for our learning) by the Ultimate. o The Ultimate plans and directs our lives but we can still exorcise free will. o The thoughts we collectively create produce all that happens to us, and this can be random. o Everything that happens to us is the result of Karma, we cannot escape it except through Enlightenment (what we experience we have obviously done to others in this life or an earlier one). To vote, please visit the following web page: Nisargadatta/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the web site listed above. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 Hi everyone, I've started a new poll to find out what you all think of the determinism vs free will debate. I've altered it so that you can vote for more than one possiblity and changed the second last option so that it now reads " The thoughts we collectively create produce all that happens to us, and this can be random " at the individual level " . Enjoy. Kind regards, Stephen - <Nisargadatta > <Nisargadatta > Thursday, October 04, 2001 7:36 PM New poll for Nisargadatta > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Nisargadatta group: > > Does mysticism suggest determinism? If > we are all One then do we, at some > level, agree to any abuses or > happinesses that occur in our lives? > Do we agree to be 'murdered' and who we > will 'marry'? > > o Yes, our I AM consents to everything that happens to us. > o No, we are solely responsible for harming or loving another. > o Everything that happens to us is determined by ourselves in a pre-life state (not in the Now). > o We do plan our lives prior to birth but we can 'break the pattern' by using our free will. > o None of us have any individual choice over what happens to us, it is all chosen (for our learning) by the Ultimate. > o The Ultimate plans and directs our lives but we can still exorcise free will. > o The thoughts we collectively create produce all that happens to us, and this can be random. > o Everything that happens to us is the result of Karma, we cannot escape it except through Enlightenment (what we experience we have obviously done to others in this life or an earlier one). > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > Nisargadatta/polls > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 Dear Stephen, Could you add a " None of the above " and directly underneath that an " All of the above " (but that maybe too clever...) Maybe some other choices like: " It's all based on a random error and our continuous attempt to undo it. " " It's all based on a random fluke and our continuous to make the best of it. " " It's all based on a random act of kindness and our inability to unconditionally appreciate that. " " What ever can happen, has already happened, is happening and will happen. " " It's all according to Chaos theory, e.g. Mandelbroet set " Love, Wim Stephen [user] Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:43 AM Nisargadatta Re: New poll for Nisargadatta Hi everyone, I've started a new poll to find out what you all think of the determinism vs free will debate. I've altered it so that you can vote for more than one possiblity and changed the second last option so that it now reads " The thoughts we collectively create produce all that happens to us, and this can be random " at the individual level " . Enjoy. Kind regards, Stephen - <Nisargadatta > <Nisargadatta > Thursday, October 04, 2001 7:36 PM New poll for Nisargadatta > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Nisargadatta group: > > Does mysticism suggest determinism? If > we are all One then do we, at some > level, agree to any abuses or > happinesses that occur in our lives? > Do we agree to be 'murdered' and who we > will 'marry'? > > o Yes, our I AM consents to everything that happens to us. > o No, we are solely responsible for harming or loving another. > o Everything that happens to us is determined by ourselves in a pre-life state (not in the Now). > o We do plan our lives prior to birth but we can 'break the pattern' by using our free will. > o None of us have any individual choice over what happens to us, it is all chosen (for our learning) by the Ultimate. > o The Ultimate plans and directs our lives but we can still exorcise free will. > o The thoughts we collectively create produce all that happens to us, and this can be random. > o Everything that happens to us is the result of Karma, we cannot escape it except through Enlightenment (what we experience we have obviously done to others in this life or an earlier one). > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > Nisargadatta/polls > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 " It was all over long ago. " " Shit happens. " " All possibilities occur. " " All alternatives get played out. " " Who cares? " Wim Borsboom wrote: > > Dear Stephen, > > Could you add a " None of the above " and directly underneath that an " All of > the above " (but that maybe too clever...) > > Maybe some other choices like: > " It's all based on a random error and our continuous attempt to undo it. " > " It's all based on a random fluke and our continuous to make the best of > it. " > " It's all based on a random act of kindness and our inability to > unconditionally appreciate that. " > " What ever can happen, has already happened, is happening and will happen. " > " It's all according to Chaos theory, e.g. Mandelbroet set " > > Love, Wim > > > Stephen [user] > Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:43 AM > Nisargadatta > Re: New poll for Nisargadatta > > Hi everyone, > > I've started a new poll to find out what you all think of the determinism vs > free will debate. I've altered it so that you can vote for more than one > possiblity and changed the second last option so that it now reads " The > thoughts we collectively create produce all that happens to us, and this can > be random " at the individual level " . > > Enjoy. > > Kind regards, > Stephen > > - > <Nisargadatta > > <Nisargadatta > > Thursday, October 04, 2001 7:36 PM > New poll for Nisargadatta > > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > > Nisargadatta group: > > > > Does mysticism suggest determinism? If > > we are all One then do we, at some > > level, agree to any abuses or > > happinesses that occur in our lives? > > Do we agree to be 'murdered' and who we > > will 'marry'? > > > > o Yes, our I AM consents to everything that happens to us. > > o No, we are solely responsible for harming or loving another. > > o Everything that happens to us is determined by ourselves in a pre-life > state (not in the Now). > > o We do plan our lives prior to birth but we can 'break the pattern' by > using our free will. > > o None of us have any individual choice over what happens to us, it is > all chosen (for our learning) by the Ultimate. > > o The Ultimate plans and directs our lives but we can still exorcise > free will. > > o The thoughts we collectively create produce all that happens to us, > and this can be random. > > o Everything that happens to us is the result of Karma, we cannot escape > it except through Enlightenment (what we experience we have obviously done > to others in this life or an earlier one). > > > > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > > > Nisargadatta/polls > > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the > > web site listed above. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 " I do it all to surprise myself. " love, andrew andrew macnab wrote: > > " It was all over long ago. " > " Shit happens. " > " All possibilities occur. " > " All alternatives get played out. " > " Who cares? " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 Nisargadatta, Nisargadatta wrote: > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > Nisargadatta group: > > Does mysticism suggest determinism? No it doesn't. Mysticism suggests the end of the search. > If we are all One then do we, at some > level, agree to any abuses or > happinesses that occur in our lives? HAHAHAH! Sorry, too too funny. > Do we agree to be 'murdered' and who we > will 'marry'? Oh, christ on a crutch! So we all sit around in a big 'pre-birth' round-table discussion casting dice in a great game of 'Monopoly'? > > o Yes, our I AM consents to everything that happens to us. What? You have a different I AM than somebody else? Well - sheesh! > o No, we are solely responsible for harming or loving another. We do bear the fruits of action. So? > o Everything that happens to us is determined by ourselves in a pre-life state (not in the Now). Crap! Sorry, but what a load of garbage. If we 'click' to the idea that there is only one thing (the seeker and the sought are the same thing), how could there be a 'pre-life' you or me? What could there be other than the 'Now'? Oh yes, the stupid belief that there is something besides the 'Now'. Crap crap crap! > o We do plan our lives prior to birth but we can 'break the pattern' by using our free will. Uh-oh - more crap. > o None of us have any individual choice over what happens to us, it is all chosen (for our learning) by the Ultimate. It does seem that way at times doesn't it? This question presupposes some 'divine' plan - oops! Crap! > o The Ultimate plans and directs our lives but we can still exorcise free will. Dare I say it - yah! - crap! > o The thoughts we collectively create produce all that happens to us, and this can be random. We who? > o Everything that happens to us is the result of Karma, we cannot escape it except through Enlightenment (what we experience we have obviously done to others in this life or an earlier one). > Yikes! Somebody thinks we is separate from something. Now let me ask this: is karma 'divine' retribution for the 'mistakes' of past/present/future lifes? Forget it! Karma is action and its results are immediate. Yes, I know folk 'remember' past lives. Gotta million billion of them myself. Now, just think a tiny little bit - whose past lives? :-) Andrew said it quite well. " I do it to surprise myself. " Ah, well. 'I' hope that 'you' aren't too pissed off about the wanton use of the word crap. Loveya - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 Hi Michael -- No, I wasn't pissed off by your wanton use of the word " crap " . In fact, you used it very well, quite on-target in your wanton way. I would like to wantonly use the word " carp " and see if that pisses someone off. I hate to carp about the contradictions involved when people assume something can be known about unicity -- but how to ignore the assumed separation of the one who is talking, and that which is presumed to be transferable with words to another (call it reality, or whatever). All such speculative talk is much less helpful than watching a beautiful carp swimming in a pool. Carpe diem -- energy foolishly wasted in speculation could be more fruitfully applied to carpentry. As one fish monger said to the other, " I know a load of carp when I smell it " ... Fishily, Dan --- Michael Read <maread wrote: > Nisargadatta, Nisargadatta wrote: > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been > created for the > > Nisargadatta group: > > > > Does mysticism suggest determinism? > > No it doesn't. Mysticism suggests the end of the > search. > > > If we are all One then do we, at some > > level, agree to any abuses or > > happinesses that occur in our lives? > > HAHAHAH! Sorry, too too funny. > > > Do we agree to be 'murdered' and who we > > will 'marry'? > > Oh, christ on a crutch! So we all sit around in a > big 'pre-birth' > round-table discussion casting dice in a great game > of 'Monopoly'? > > > > > o Yes, our I AM consents to everything that > happens to us. > > What? You have a different I AM than somebody else? > Well - sheesh! > > > o No, we are solely responsible for harming or > loving another. > > We do bear the fruits of action. So? > > > o Everything that happens to us is determined by > ourselves in a > pre-life state (not in the Now). > > Crap! Sorry, but what a load of garbage. If we > 'click' to the idea > that there is only one thing (the seeker and the > sought are the same > thing), how could there be a 'pre-life' you or me? > > What could there be other than the 'Now'? Oh yes, > the stupid belief > that there is something besides the 'Now'. Crap crap > crap! > > > o We do plan our lives prior to birth but we can > 'break the > pattern' by using our free will. > > Uh-oh - more crap. > > > o None of us have any individual choice over > what happens to us, > it is all chosen (for our learning) by the Ultimate. > > > It does seem that way at times doesn't it? This > question presupposes > some 'divine' plan - oops! Crap! > > > o The Ultimate plans and directs our lives but > we can still > exorcise free will. > > Dare I say it - yah! - crap! > > > o The thoughts we collectively create produce > all that happens to > us, and this can be random. > > We who? > > > o Everything that happens to us is the result of > Karma, we cannot > escape it except through Enlightenment (what we > experience we have > obviously done to others in this life or an earlier > one). > > > > Yikes! Somebody thinks we is separate from > something. Now let me ask > this: is karma 'divine' retribution for the > 'mistakes' of > past/present/future lifes? Forget it! Karma is > action and its results > are immediate. > > Yes, I know folk 'remember' past lives. Gotta > million billion of them > myself. Now, just think a tiny little bit - whose > past lives? :-) > > Andrew said it quite well. " I do it to surprise > myself. " > > Ah, well. 'I' hope that 'you' aren't too pissed off > about the wanton > use of the word crap. > > Loveya - Michael > > NEW from GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities./ps/info1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 Dan, you are being koi! d b wrote: > > Hi Michael -- > > No, I wasn't pissed off by > your wanton use of the word " crap " . > > In fact, you used it very well, > quite on-target in your wanton way. > > I would like to wantonly use the > word " carp " and see if that > pisses someone off. > > I hate to carp about the contradictions > involved when people assume something can > be known about unicity -- but how to > ignore the assumed separation of > the one who is talking, and that which > is presumed to be transferable with words > to another (call it reality, or whatever). > > All such speculative talk is much less > helpful than watching a beautiful > carp swimming in a pool. > > Carpe diem -- energy foolishly wasted > in speculation could be more fruitfully > applied to carpentry. > > As one fish monger said to the other, > " I know a load of carp when I smell it " ... > > Fishily, > Dan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 Nisargadatta, d b <dan330033> wrote: > Hi Michael -- > > No, I wasn't pissed off by > your wanton use of the word " crap " . > > In fact, you used it very well, > quite on-target in your wanton way. > > I would like to wantonly use the > word " carp " and see if that > pisses someone off. > > I hate to carp about the contradictions > involved when people assume something can > be known about unicity -- but how to > ignore the assumed separation of > the one who is talking, and that which > is presumed to be transferable with words > to another (call it reality, or whatever). > > All such speculative talk is much less > helpful than watching a beautiful > carp swimming in a pool. > ****** Alright! That's enough! :-) I know a punch bowl joke when I see one! :-) > Carpe diem -- energy foolishly wasted > in speculation could be more fruitfully > applied to carpentry. > > As one fish monger said to the other, > " I know a load of carp when I smell it " ... > > Fishily, > Dan > ******** LOL!! Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 judirhodes wrote: <snip> > > All such speculative talk is much less > > helpful than watching a beautiful > > carp swimming in a pool. > > > ****** Alright! That's enough! :-) > I know a punch bowl joke when I see one! :-) > http://www.vcnet.com/koi_net/koi.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 " Michael Read " <maread > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > > Nisargadatta group: > > > > Does mysticism suggest determinism? > > No it doesn't. I quite agree. > Mysticism suggests the end of the search. Most probably, yes. Usually, once one discoveres mysticism and accepts the clear similarity between all mystics at all places and times, it is unusual to leave it for a structured 'religion' - people usually come to it from the other direction but, if they give it a fair hearing, don't too often leave. So, in that sense it is, usually, the end of the search. There is, however, the personal 'search' for Enlightenment that one must undertake. > > If we are all One then do we, at some > > level, agree to any abuses or > > happinesses that occur in our lives? > > HAHAHAH! Sorry, too too funny. I'd agree. It is, however, a remarkably persistent viewpoint. > > Do we agree to be 'murdered' and who we > > will 'marry'? > > Oh, christ on a crutch! So we all sit around in a big 'pre-birth' > round-table discussion casting dice in a great game of 'Monopoly'? While I don't agree with this myself, some hold to it dearly. I'm interested in the spread of views on this list - thus the poll. > > o Yes, our I AM consents to everything that happens to us. > > What? You have a different I AM than somebody else? Well - sheesh! Ah but! There is where the metaphysical conundrum lies. If we all have the same I AM (and there is little doubt that sources such as Nisargadatta suggest we do) then is what happens to us, the good and the bad, the result of some kind of determinism? > > o No, we are solely responsible for harming or loving another. > > We do bear the fruits of action. So? This would be my choice. How do you think it works when we all share in the same I AM? > > o Everything that happens to us is determined by ourselves in a > pre-life state (not in the Now). > > Crap! Sorry, but what a load of garbage. If we 'click' to the idea > that there is only one thing (the seeker and the sought are the same > thing), how could there be a 'pre-life' you or me? > > What could there be other than the 'Now'? Oh yes, the stupid belief > that there is something besides the 'Now'. Crap crap crap! Well, I definately find it easier to practice forgiveness with people when they strongly agree with me - even if they don't realise it. I would, however, suggest that your attitude isn't likely to produce a meaningfull debate of any real depth if you challenge those who adhere to determinism passionately. Their main points are a little bit harder to debate than simply saying crap crap crap - though they may well be crap crap crap. > > o We do plan our lives prior to birth but we can 'break the > pattern' by using our free will. > > Uh-oh - more crap. Actually, I'm not sure about this one. I'm quite sure we're personally responsible for what we do - but feel we do have some choice regarding the circumstances of our life. > > o None of us have any individual choice over what happens to us, > it is all chosen (for our learning) by the Ultimate. > > It does seem that way at times doesn't it? This question presupposes > some 'divine' plan - oops! Crap! Is it the case that anyone who disagrees with you is talking crap? Along with studying Sri Nisargadatta, I follow A Course In Miracles (ACIM), the idea of " God's plan for the Atonement " is quite strong in that work. Where's tolerance here? You appear to be lacking respect for any views other than your own - real or imaginary. Another point to note is that Nisargadatta supports the idea of a plan, or pupose of sorts, operating to wake everyone up. In exactly the same vein that ACIM discusses the Holy Spirit, Sri Nisargadatta tells us that " There is a power in the universe working for enlightenment and liberation. We call it Sadashiva, who is ever present in the hearts of men. " > > o The Ultimate plans and directs our lives but we can still > exorcise free will. > > Dare I say it - yah! - crap! Why? Both ACIM and Sri Nisargatta seem intuitively correct when they say that we can either listen to the voice for God or the voice for the Ego. It depends on our free will. > > o The thoughts we collectively create produce all that happens to > us, and this can be random. > > We who? Again, if there is just one I AM does this mean a kind of determinism? Simply saying that determinism is 'crap' isn't likely to persuade those who passionately support it to reconsider, don't you think? > > o Everything that happens to us is the result of Karma, we cannot > escape it except through Enlightenment (what we experience we have > obviously done to others in this life or an earlier one). > > Yikes! Somebody thinks we is separate from something. Now let me ask > this: is karma 'divine' retribution for the 'mistakes' of > past/present/future lifes? Forget it! Karma is action and its results > are immediate. > > Yes, I know folk 'remember' past lives. Gotta million billion of them > myself. Now, just think a tiny little bit - whose past lives? :-) > > Andrew said it quite well. " I do it to surprise myself. " > > Ah, well. 'I' hope that 'you' aren't too pissed off about the wanton > use of the word crap. And I hope you aren't too pissed off about having your personal projections highlighted, Michael. Just because I included certain options in my poll, doesn't mean I believe them. After all, it would hardly be much of a poll if I only included the options that I considered possible. Kind regards, Stephen (smart-arse) He that will not reason is a bigot. He that cannot reason is a fool. He that dares not reason is a slave. --William Drummond, Academical Questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 Dear Stephen -- You seem to be taking Michael to task for his " tone " . But is that the main thing to be looking at here? Let me see if I can clarify: According to your words, you apparently find something you term " I AM " to be the same for everyone and behind everything. If that is true, then isn't it obvious that everything that seems to be happening " to " you, is you? Everything that seeming " appears " is only the one to whom it is appearing? If *this* is " known " isn't it clear that questions about " free will " and " determinism " with regards to metaphysical reality are utterly irrlevant? *This* is not speculation, nor philisophical ideation, but *direct self-knowing* ... and that is All -- and all and each in All, as All ... -- Dan --- Stephen <user wrote: > " Michael Read " <maread > > > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been > created for the > > > Nisargadatta group: > > > > > > Does mysticism suggest determinism? > > > > No it doesn't. > > I quite agree. > > > Mysticism suggests the end of the search. > > Most probably, yes. Usually, once one discoveres > mysticism and accepts the > clear similarity between all mystics at all places > and times, it is unusual > to leave it for a structured 'religion' - people > usually come to it from the > other direction but, if they give it a fair hearing, > don't too often leave. > So, in that sense it is, usually, the end of the > search. There is, however, > the personal 'search' for Enlightenment that one > must undertake. > > > > If we are all One then do we, at some > > > level, agree to any abuses or > > > happinesses that occur in our lives? > > > > HAHAHAH! Sorry, too too funny. > > I'd agree. It is, however, a remarkably persistent > viewpoint. > > > > Do we agree to be 'murdered' and who we > > > will 'marry'? > > > > Oh, christ on a crutch! So we all sit around in a > big 'pre-birth' > > round-table discussion casting dice in a great > game of 'Monopoly'? > > While I don't agree with this myself, some hold to > it dearly. I'm > interested in the spread of views on this list - > thus the poll. > > > > o Yes, our I AM consents to everything that > happens to us. > > > > What? You have a different I AM than somebody > else? Well - sheesh! > > Ah but! There is where the metaphysical conundrum > lies. If we all have the > same I AM (and there is little doubt that sources > such as Nisargadatta > suggest we do) then is what happens to us, the good > and the bad, the result > of some kind of determinism? > > > > o No, we are solely responsible for harming or > loving another. > > > > We do bear the fruits of action. So? > > This would be my choice. How do you think it works > when we all share in the > same I AM? > > > > o Everything that happens to us is determined > by ourselves in a > > pre-life state (not in the Now). > > > > Crap! Sorry, but what a load of garbage. If we > 'click' to the idea > > that there is only one thing (the seeker and the > sought are the same > > thing), how could there be a 'pre-life' you or me? > > > > What could there be other than the 'Now'? Oh yes, > the stupid belief > > that there is something besides the 'Now'. Crap > crap crap! > > Well, I definately find it easier to practice > forgiveness with people when > they strongly agree with me - even if they don't > realise it. I would, > however, suggest that your attitude isn't likely to > produce a meaningfull > debate of any real depth if you challenge those who > adhere to determinism > passionately. Their main points are a little bit > harder to debate than > simply saying crap crap crap - though they may well > be crap crap crap. > > > > o We do plan our lives prior to birth but we > can 'break the > > pattern' by using our free will. > > > > Uh-oh - more crap. > > Actually, I'm not sure about this one. I'm quite > sure we're personally > responsible for what we do - but feel we do have > some choice regarding the > circumstances of our life. > > > > o None of us have any individual choice over > what happens to us, > > it is all chosen (for our learning) by the > Ultimate. > > > > It does seem that way at times doesn't it? This > question presupposes > > some 'divine' plan - oops! Crap! > > Is it the case that anyone who disagrees with you is > talking crap? Along > with studying Sri Nisargadatta, I follow A Course In > Miracles (ACIM), the > idea of " God's plan for the Atonement " is quite > strong in that work. > Where's tolerance here? You appear to be lacking > respect for any views > other than your own - real or imaginary. Another > point to note is that > Nisargadatta supports the idea of a plan, or pupose > of sorts, operating to > wake everyone up. In exactly the same vein that > ACIM discusses the Holy > Spirit, Sri Nisargadatta tells us that " There is a > power in the universe > working for enlightenment and liberation. We call > it Sadashiva, who is ever > present in the hearts of men. " > > > > o The Ultimate plans and directs our lives but > we can still > > exorcise free will. > > > > Dare I say it - yah! - crap! > > Why? Both ACIM and Sri Nisargatta seem intuitively > correct when they say > that we can either listen to the voice for God or > the voice for the Ego. It > depends on our free will. > > > > o The thoughts we collectively create produce > all that happens to > > us, and this can be random. > > > > We who? > > Again, if there is just one I AM does this mean a > kind of determinism? > Simply saying that determinism is 'crap' isn't > likely to persuade those who > passionately support it to reconsider, don't you > think? > > > > o Everything that happens to us is the result > of Karma, we cannot > > escape it except through Enlightenment (what we > experience we have > > obviously done to others in this life or an > earlier one). > > > > Yikes! Somebody thinks we is separate from > something. Now let me ask > > this: is karma 'divine' retribution for the > 'mistakes' of > > past/present/future lifes? Forget it! Karma is > action and its results > > are immediate. > > > > Yes, I know folk 'remember' past lives. Gotta > million billion of them > > myself. Now, just think a tiny little bit - whose > past lives? :-) > > > > Andrew said it quite well. " I do it to surprise > myself. " > > > > Ah, well. 'I' hope that 'you' aren't too pissed > off about the wanton > > use of the word crap. > > And I hope you aren't too pissed off about having > your personal projections > highlighted, Michael. Just because I included > certain options in my poll, > doesn't mean I believe them. After all, it would > hardly be much of a poll > if I only included the options that I considered > possible. > === message truncated === NEW from GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities./ps/info1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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