Guest guest Posted November 1, 2001 Report Share Posted November 1, 2001 Hi, I have a question: Where is the border-line between compassionate acceptance and voluntarily exposing oneself to psychic abuse, to the point of psycho- somatic dis-ease, in the name of compassion ? I am reffering to man-woman relationship. She is chaotic in her vebal communication; she does not listen; she says one thing does another; she does not show much respect/noticing of the other, apparently due to her impulsive grasping at what she wants, which makes her unconscious to the fact, that she is not the only one in the universe.. no consideration for/presence to the other or the situation; after every blunder she says 'I will not do it again.. forget it and give us another chance'.. -and he does so,.. he resorts to understanding her mechanical limmitations..hundreds of times.. again and again. Though she has good intentions ( " I'll try .. " ) he starts to feel like he is banging his head against a wall.. he feels that there is 'nobody home' to talk to. He is not heard. Finally he starts to get symptoms of psycho-somatic damage (head-shakes/tics, etc.). Example: he says " Please, do not open the door to my room when closed.. as that means that either I sit and meditate, or sleep or need some privacy " .. during the last 5 years about 100-150 times. But she does it.. 100-150 times .. and then says 'sorry' 100-150 times. Last time, she explained that the reason she did it, was because she felt " spontaneusly curious to see " what I am doing.. (quite a selection of innocent words..!?). She also 'gives' much.. what and how and when,_she_ thinks it is best for me, in spite of my saying that I do not need/want it. Practical aggreements, she 'forgets'. If I ask whether we should buy a melon, she starts to talk about buying lemons!.. and this is not only figuratively speaking, but it did actually happen. Since he does have love for her, he kept on by accepting and being compassionate of her, thogh non-intentional.. but forceful intrusions/pushing and pulling, seeing her as being a slave to them. She seems to be so self-absorbed in her private universe, that there is not much room left for sensitivity to the other,.. for seeing/perception of things-as-they-are. Presence/sharing in being, is an impossibility for her (though she disagrees.. as she does feel she can be herself in my company) perhaps due to her exclusive self- preoccupation and confusion. I have pointed out to her these and other (what I discern to be destructive to a healthy relationship) hundreds of times. But it seems to be a truism that, a partner cannot be the other's 'therapist'. So I have given up. I will not burden the reader with more details about the various modes of energy/life-drainage, so I will return to my question .. There are those who escape from a relationship at the slightest discomfort or problem, and look for another, only to find more of the same problems. And there are those (perhaps like me) who do not believe in escaping.. who keep at it,.. trying to understand.. on and on for years. And I wonder now, whether the latter is not a form of utter philosophical idiocy in the name of compassion... (?!) The paradox of all this, is that apparently she is very warm/sweet, giving, loving, caring .. but it seems to me that a 'deeper level' all these are expressions of grasping at happiness via a self-created wishful reality, which she desperately tries to impose on the other, resulting in a rather subtle manipulation. Perhaps, I have allowed myself to be fooled.. 5 years .. by sweet superficialities and acted according to -her- truths, instead of acting according to Seeing,.. whose 'voice' I did hear, but which, for various reasons (?), I have overlooked and buried. If asked 'well then, have you finally let go of her ?'.. I would say, yes, .. 98 %.. it is the 2 % that causes the pain, and probably unwisely, makes me wish that the relationship would be resumed. I hope my mail, does not sound too much as a trivial " Dear Abby.. tell me what to do ! " letter, but after quite many years of interest in spirituality, I do not think any longer that it is wise to overlook and not consider/enquire into, the so-called 'ussual mortal stuff' and chase after a Nirvanic state, instead. Comments welcome. Regards, jb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2001 Report Share Posted November 1, 2001 >JB789 >Nisargadatta >Nisargadatta > Idiotic compassion (?!) >Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:58:23 -0000 > >Hi, >I have a question: >Where is the border-line between compassionate acceptance and >voluntarily exposing oneself to psychic abuse, to the point of psycho- >somatic dis-ease, in the name of compassion ? >I am reffering to man-woman relationship. Hi JB, Appreciate your remarks on such real matters. huh.. the nature of woman ? Not that I'm an expert on this subject but what's new under the sun ? What you are refering to seems to be common in almost all contractual relationships for convenience, resulting in mutual use and abuse. Right now it's probably the proper ashrama for your tapasya (bed of nails), for your ripeness and development, till you fall apart, completely devastated. You want her to take you to heaven but in the end she'd always take you to hell, my friend ! If anyone tells you there's a way out of this mess, he's kidding himself. As a matter of fact, why make effort to change anything ? Understand, acceptance & enjoy your fate. Just don't interfere and circumstances will change on it's own accord, when it's appropriate. ~dave ps.. you can always do like the Western Avatar,Da take Nava-Kumaris (nine concubines) but then again that might mean nine times more headaces for you :-) _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2001 Report Share Posted November 1, 2001 Hi JB, Me too is not an expert on relationships! But then why does any problem becomes overwhelmingly trying on us ? Isn't it that when a problem becomes insolvable its because it is bigger than me. Which is fundamentally incorrect.After all only if I is there everything else is( including my boss, spouse,neighbour & governments etc..!) but mind it this is not an egoistic statement its a FACT!. Moreover isn't compassion different from I identifying myself with another persons problems & weakness (which is what? if not neourosis) I believe in many problematic cases we know the solutions but due to fragmented, weak mind we are not able to carry them out. There is good discussion on how to keep oneself collected in chapter 30 'You are free now' in 'I am that'. If you have some time read it again it might give you some insight. Its true that fighting with a problem doesn't make it go away and problem vanishes when circustances change But can we say that we don't have any influence at ALL on the circumstances around us ? (especailly in personal relationships) The important thing is to be aware of our being as well as of the problem. Maharaj is saying this thing only in chapter 30 'You are free now' in 'I am that' Q: All my waking and dreaming I am conscious of myself. It does not help me much. M: You were aware of thinking, feeling, doing you were not aware of your being. Namaste, Vineet On Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:08:44 Dave Sirjue wrote: > > > >>JB789 >>Nisargadatta >>Nisargadatta >> Idiotic compassion (?!) >>Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:58:23 -0000 >> >>Hi, >>I have a question: >>Where is the border-line between compassionate acceptance and >>voluntarily exposing oneself to psychic abuse, to the point of psycho- >>somatic dis-ease, in the name of compassion ? >>I am reffering to man-woman relationship. > > >Hi JB, > >Appreciate your remarks on such real matters. >huh.. the nature of woman ? Not that I'm an expert >on this subject but what's new under the sun ? >What you are refering to seems to be common in >almost all contractual relationships for convenience, >resulting in mutual use and abuse. > >Right now it's probably the proper ashrama for >your tapasya (bed of nails), for your ripeness >and development, till you fall apart, completely >devastated. > >You want her to take you to heaven but >in the end she'd always take you to hell, >my friend ! > >If anyone tells you there's a way out of this mess, >he's kidding himself. As a matter of fact, >why make effort to change anything ? >Understand, acceptance & enjoy your fate. >Just don't interfere and circumstances will >change on it's own accord, when it's appropriate. > >~dave > >ps.. you can always do like the Western Avatar,Da >take Nava-Kumaris (nine concubines) but then again >that might mean nine times more headaces >for you :-) > > > > >_______________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2001 Report Share Posted November 2, 2001 JB & Friends, JB, I think you see it. You just don't want to act on it. One thing you can count on, the woman you are describing to us isn't going to change; at least, YOU are not going to make her change. So then, the only question is, are you going to change? Good Luck, whatever you decide, yours in the bonds, eric Nisargadatta, JB789@h... wrote: > Hi, > I have a question: > Where is the border-line between compassionate acceptance and > voluntarily exposing oneself to psychic abuse, to the point of psycho- > somatic dis-ease, in the name of compassion ? > I am reffering to man-woman relationship. > She is chaotic in her vebal communication; she does not listen; she > says one thing does another; she does not show much respect/noticing > of the other, apparently due to her impulsive grasping at what she > wants, which makes her unconscious to the fact, that she is not the > only one in the universe.. no consideration for/presence to the other > or the situation; after every blunder she says 'I will not do it > again.. forget it and give us another chance'.. -and he does so,.. he > resorts to understanding her mechanical limmitations..hundreds of > times.. again and again. Though she has good intentions ( " I'll > try .. " ) he starts to feel like he is banging his head against a > wall.. he feels that there is 'nobody home' to talk to. He is not > heard. Finally he starts to get symptoms of psycho-somatic damage > (head-shakes/tics, etc.). > Example: he says " Please, do not open the door to my room when > closed.. as that means that either I sit and meditate, or sleep or > need some privacy " .. during the last 5 years about 100-150 times. > But she does it.. 100-150 times .. and then says 'sorry' 100-150 > times. Last time, she explained that the reason she did it, was > because she felt " spontaneusly curious to see " what I am doing.. > (quite a selection of innocent words..!?). > She also 'gives' much.. what and how and when,_she_ thinks it is best > for me, in spite of my saying that I do not need/want it. > Practical aggreements, she 'forgets'. > If I ask whether we should buy a melon, she starts to talk about > buying lemons!.. and this is not only figuratively speaking, but it > did actually happen. > Since he does have love for her, he kept on by accepting and being > compassionate of her, thogh non-intentional.. but forceful > intrusions/pushing and pulling, seeing her as being a slave to them. > She seems to be so self-absorbed in her private universe, that there > is not much room left for sensitivity to the other,.. for > seeing/perception of things-as-they-are. Presence/sharing in being, > is an impossibility for her (though she disagrees.. as she does feel > she can be herself in my company) perhaps due to her exclusive self- > preoccupation and confusion. > > I have pointed out to her these and other (what I discern to be > destructive to a healthy relationship) hundreds of times. But it > seems to be a truism that, a partner cannot be the > other's 'therapist'. So I have given up. > > I will not burden the reader with more details about the various > modes of energy/life-drainage, so I will return to my question .. > There are those who escape from a relationship at the slightest > discomfort or problem, and look for another, only to find more of the > same problems. > And there are those (perhaps like me) who do not believe in > escaping.. who keep at it,.. trying to understand.. on and on for > years. > And I wonder now, whether the latter is not a form of utter > philosophical idiocy in the name of compassion... (?!) > > The paradox of all this, is that apparently she is very warm/sweet, > giving, loving, caring .. but it seems to me that a 'deeper level' > all these are expressions of grasping at happiness via a self- created > wishful reality, which she desperately tries to impose on the other, > resulting in a rather subtle manipulation. > Perhaps, I have allowed myself to be fooled.. 5 years .. by sweet > superficialities and acted according to -her- truths, instead of > acting according to Seeing,.. whose 'voice' I did hear, but which, > for various reasons (?), I have overlooked and buried. > > If asked 'well then, have you finally let go of her ?'.. I would say, > yes, .. 98 %.. > it is the 2 % that causes the pain, and probably unwisely, makes me > wish that the relationship would be resumed. > > I hope my mail, does not sound too much as a trivial " Dear Abby.. > tell me what to do ! " letter, but after quite many years of interest > in spirituality, I do not think any longer that it is wise to > overlook and not consider/enquire into, the so-called 'ussual mortal > stuff' and chase after a Nirvanic state, instead. > > Comments welcome. > Regards, > jb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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