Meditation - How long ?

[Guest guest]

In many Buddhist traditions, long periods of meditation are

recommended. The general feeling seems to be, the more meditation the

better. There are retreats that last from a few days up to several

years where all the retreatant does is meditate. In the United

States, the Zen and Vippasana traditions offer retreats of non stop

sitting and walking meditation lasting from a week to 3 months.

 

I have been involved with Buddhism in the USA for years, and have

taken this point of view for granted. However, recently I have been

going to a class with a Swami in the Vedanta order. He doesn't think

much of long periods of meditation, and in conversations with other

students who are traditional Indian Hindus I find the same point of

view, that meditation for half an hour is good, but for longer

periods is not so good.

 

What do you think ?

[Guest guest]

It all depends what your definition of meditation is. I think that the Maharaj's top

message was, "Do whatever the hell you want!" Not in those exact words of course.

tomcarr1 <tomcarr wrote: In many Buddhist traditions, long periods of meditation arerecommended. The general feeling seems to be, the more meditation thebetter. There are retreats that last from a few days up to severalyears where all the retreatant does is meditate. In the United States, the Zen and Vippasana traditions offer retreats of non stop sitting and walking meditation lasting from a week to 3 months.I have been involved with Buddhism in the USA for years, and have taken this point of view for granted. However, recently I have been going to a class with a Swami in the Vedanta order. He doesn't think much of long periods of meditation, and in conversations with other students who are traditional Indian Hindus I find the same point of view, that meditation for half an hour is good, but for longer periods is not so good.What do you think ?

[Guest guest]

Before the meditation question, let me point that Vedanta and Advaita

Vedanta are not the same. Even the traditional Advaita is not the

same as modern Advaita. While the teachings of traditonal Advaita

heavily depend on scriptures (knowledge, learning and study), modern

Advaita masters like Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj speak

from their experience of Self-realization.

 

Although neither a ritualistic practice nor a roadmap, one can find

in Nisargadatta Maharaj books, for example in " I am That, " and

in " the Ultimate Medicine " what appears to be instructions on how to

meditate.

 

Hur

 

Nisargadatta quotes:

 

When I met my Guru, he told me: " You are not what you take yourself

to be. Find out what you are. Watch the sense 'I am', find your real

Self. " I obeyed him, because I trusted him. I did as he told me. All

my spare time I would spend looking at myself in silence. And what a

difference it made, and how soon!

 

**

 

My teacher told me to hold on to the sense 'I am' tenaciously and not

to swerve from it even for a moment. I did my best to follow his

advice and in a comparatively short time I realized within myself the

truth of his teaching. All I did was to remember his teaching, his

face, his words constantly. This brought an end to the mind; in the

stillness of the mind I saw myself as I am -- unbound.

 

I simply followed (my teacher's) instruction which was to focus the

mind on pure being 'I am', and stay in it. I used to sit for hours

together, with nothing but the 'I am' in my mind and soon peace and

joy and a deep all-embracing love became my normal state. In it all

disappeared -- myself, my Guru, the life I lived, the world around

me. Only peace remained and unfathomable silence.

 

My Guru ordered me to attend to the sense 'I am' and to give

attention to nothing else. I just obeyed. I did not follow any

particular course of breathing, or meditation, or study of

scriptures. Whatever happened, I would turn away my attention from it

and remain with the sense 'I am', it may look too simple, even crude.

My only reason for doing it was that my Guru told me so. Yet it

worked! Obedience is a powerful solvent of all desires and fears.

 

**

 

Maharaj: For meditation you should sit with identification with the

knowledge " I am " only and have confirmed to yourself that you are not

the body. You must dwell only in that knowledge " I am " --not merely

the words " I am. " The design of your body does not signify your

identification. And also, the name which is given to you or to the

body is not your correct identity. The name which is imposed on you,

or the name which you have heard about you--you have accepted that

name as yourself. Similarly, since you have seen your body, you

think you are the body. So you have to give up both these

identities. And the indwelling knowledge that you are, without

words, that itself you are. In that identity, you must stabilize

yourself. And then, whatever doubts you have, will be cleared by

that very knowledge, and everything will be opened up in you.

 

**

 

Question: All teachers advise to meditate. What is the purpose of

meditation?

 

Maharaj: We know the outer world of sensations and actions. But of

our inner world of thoughts and feelings we know very little. The

primary purpose of meditation is to become conscious of, and familiar

with, our inner life. The ultimate purpose is to reach the source of

life and consciousness. Incidentally, practice of meditation affects

deeply our character. We are slaves to what we do not know. Whatever

vice or weakness in ourselves we discover and understand its causes

and its workings, we overcome it by the very knowing; the unconscious

dissolves when brought into the conscious. The dissolution of the

unconscious release energy; the mind feels adequate and become quiet.

 

**

 

 

 

Nisargadatta, " tomcarr1 " <tomcarr@m...> wrote:

> In many Buddhist traditions, long periods of meditation are

> recommended. The general feeling seems to be, the more meditation

the

> better. There are retreats that last from a few days up to several

> years where all the retreatant does is meditate. In the United

> States, the Zen and Vippasana traditions offer retreats of non stop

> sitting and walking meditation lasting from a week to 3 months.

>

> I have been involved with Buddhism in the USA for years, and have

> taken this point of view for granted. However, recently I have

been

> going to a class with a Swami in the Vedanta order. He doesn't

think

> much of long periods of meditation, and in conversations with other

> students who are traditional Indian Hindus I find the same point of

> view, that meditation for half an hour is good, but for longer

> periods is not so good.

>

> What do you think ?

[Guest guest]

" Meditation is never control of the body. There is no actual division

between the organism and the mind. The brain, the nervous system, and

the thing we call the mind are all one, indivisible. It is the

natural act of meditation that brings about the harmonious movement

of the whole. To divide the body from the mind and to control the

body with intellectual decisions is to bring about contradiction,

from which arise various forms of struggle, conflict and resistance.

Every decision to control only breeds resistance, even the

determination to be aware. Meditation is the understanding of the

division brought about by decision. Freedom is not the act of

decision but the act of perception. The seeing is the doing. It is

not a determination to see and then to act. After all, will is desire

with all its contradictions. When one desire assumes authority over

another, that desire becomes will. In this there is inevitable

division. And meditation is the understanding of desire, not the

overcoming of one desire by another. Desire is the movement of

sensation, which becomes pleasure and fear. This is sustained by the

constant dwelling of thought upon one or the other. Meditation is

really a complete emptying of the mind. "

 

....J. krishnamurti

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta, " tomcarr1 " <tomcarr@m...> wrote:

> In many Buddhist traditions, long periods of meditation are

> recommended. The general feeling seems to be, the more meditation

the

> better. There are retreats that last from a few days up to several

> years where all the retreatant does is meditate. In the United

> States, the Zen and Vippasana traditions offer retreats of non stop

> sitting and walking meditation lasting from a week to 3 months.

>

> I have been involved with Buddhism in the USA for years, and have

> taken this point of view for granted. However, recently I have

been

> going to a class with a Swami in the Vedanta order. He doesn't

think

> much of long periods of meditation, and in conversations with other

> students who are traditional Indian Hindus I find the same point of

> view, that meditation for half an hour is good, but for longer

> periods is not so good.

>

> What do you think ?